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Hostetler 33% Decathlon

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Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Old 12-12-2002, 12:01 AM
  #251  
Newflee
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Ken, if I were to go any bigger than 33% I would just go all the way and build full scale.
Actually I am building a full scale Super Cub replica. See it here:
http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com

Lee
Old 12-12-2002, 04:50 AM
  #252  
Big_Bird
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Nice Cub replica.

I have just discovered a missing item on the drawing. On the right hand end of the wing drawing where an arrow points to F15, there needs to be a rib installed between the ends of the open sheeting. If not there will be a big open hole there and the top sheeting will not be supported on the end. I believe a 2/3s rib made like W1 will work fine and I don't belive the shallow slant will make any difference. Of course the back end of the rib will have to be adjusted to meet F14. There may need to be a second rib glued to the new rib outboard with a 0.030" recess to allow the top window plastic to be installed.

I waited to cut F13 & F14 until I measured the distance between F15s at F16 & F17 as built so that I would get a perfect fit. Since Wendell only generated half patterns on F13 & F14, I removed the correct amount in length from the pattern center line end. Now with a perfect fit at F16 & F17, I noticed that the W1 ribs were not the same distance apart at the front as the back. I placed F14 over F13 with the C/L matching and found that I needed to remove about 0.050" from both ends of F13 where the W1 rib shoulders up. Now every item fits perfectly and the W1 ribs are square and equal distance. If you don't check that the W1 ribs or equal distant you may find that the wing has a gap when you slide it on.

I apologize for making you all sleepy reading this but it's getting late and I'm sleepy from writing it.

Gudnite
Ken
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Old 12-21-2002, 12:42 AM
  #253  
inthetrees
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Beautiful workmanship Ken !
Post more pics as you make more progress.
Is that the Stokes pic in back ground of Corsair on carrier landing?

Happy Holidays to all !

Jeff



Thanks for your long windedness.....( is that a word ? )
Old 12-21-2002, 12:46 AM
  #254  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Holy crap! Jeff your back. That's great to see.
Have you been making any progress lately?
I just recieved my 3W today so I'm charged up!
Should see regular progress from me again soon.

Lee
Old 12-23-2002, 02:58 AM
  #255  
inthetrees
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Hi All,

Not much progress , fuse sheeted with minor changes to get better cowl fit.

Lee what engine size ?

Ken your wing center section method is the way to go, F-14 as shown on plans in F-3 cross sectional view is too short , use wing top view for correct lenghts.

I'm trying to make some progress but time does not permit much !

Happy Holidays to All ! Jeff
Old 12-23-2002, 05:50 AM
  #256  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Jeff, it's a 3W78B2 with all the optional goodies. After looking over all the specs the price is right. It has a little bit of extra weight at 6.5 lbs but I've been planning for extra weight all along.
Its like a computer. Two years ago it was the cat's ass. I'm pretty happy with it ; I even took it for a walk to my neighbors tonight.

Word to the wise....DON'T TELL YOUR NEIGHBORS WHAT YOU SPEND DOING THIS STUFF.


Later.

Lee
Old 12-23-2002, 06:29 PM
  #257  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Yes Jeff, that is a Stokes painting of Corsair #13 on final. A little trivia, #13 is the CAF Corsair based at Lancaster Texas. However, when they repainted it about 3 years ago they chose to do it after a real Corsair, not the fictitious #13 one. It was repainted like the famous #530 of Marine Squadron VMF 312 (Checker Boards) flown by Lt. M O Chance. You can see my #530 on the last page of my gallery on RCU. It's powered by a Brison 5.8 and is exciting to fly and watch. When the Vought retired employees were looking for a Corsair to restore they acquired an FG-1D (Goodyear) and after restoration (#13) it was christened an F4U-1D.

Back to the SD. The detailing out of the fuselage sure seems to take a lot of time. I think I'm just slow. This first photo shows the left side window construction. The outer surface is 1/16" balsa and is backed up with 1/8" balsa strips. The plastic will glue to the rear of the 1/16" balsa.
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Old 12-23-2002, 06:31 PM
  #258  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Other window.
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Old 12-23-2002, 06:33 PM
  #259  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Here is the right side door.

Ken
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Old 12-23-2002, 06:39 PM
  #260  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Door open. Note the 1/8" balsa strips around the door opening used as stops when the door is closed.

I guess my next project is to try to build a cover for the upper portion of the instrument panel which will give the right shape to the panel. Any ideas?

Ken
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Old 12-23-2002, 06:44 PM
  #261  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Ken I was thinking about your idea of gluing the center section to the fuse in order to prevent vibration. I would like to be able to remove the center section in the future if need be, so I am reluctant to use glue here. I will fit and drill the j bolt holes so that the center section fits as snug as possible, then I will disassemble and apply a rubber gasket between the pieces. Once reassembled, the rubber will compress and there should not be any vibration. I will also attach the upper windshield in such a manner that it can be unscrewed from the center section and not destroyed in the event of center section removal.

Lee
Old 12-23-2002, 06:58 PM
  #262  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Ken, regarding the instrument panel cowl, I'm going to block one out with balsa (and whatever else needed) and then vac form one from .030 acetate. This piece is quite complex in shape and really can't be made perfectly until you have temporarily fit your windshield in order to get proper shape and position. Once I fit the windshield I will scribe out the shape of the instrument cowl.
If done properly the instrument cowl can provide a good surface to glue your windshield to.
Bye the way I will be adjusting my windshield so that it extends within 1 cm of the engine cowl edge. This will give it a slightly more raked appearance than on the plans but the Cowl/ windshield distance will be correct. The new cowl fits the fuse as shown on plans so I will be extending the WS forward by about 1.25".

Lee
Old 12-23-2002, 08:18 PM
  #263  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Lee, another reason for gluing the center section down other than vibration is structural ridigity since the door removes some of the fuselage strength. With the door open, there is more than enough room to get to any internal components. However if you choose not to build a functional door, you would need to make the center section removable. Without a functional door, it would be really difficult to get to the nuts on the rear of the "J" bolts. You would have to take the top window out to do this. I really don't see how anyone can get by without a functional door. To my way of thinking the only reason that the center section would need to be removable would be for repair due to crash damage.

It would seem to me that moving the lower front of the windshield forward 1.25" would make the front end of the plane, when viewed from the side, look a lot more odd than not having the cowl come as far back as on the full scale SD. On the plans the windshield view looks correct to me. I really don't think that the cowl not coming back far enough is going to be an item that is noticable to 99% of the people. There is a tremendous difference in building a really good looking sport scale plane (which I'm building) and a competition scale plane.

How is the cowl coming? Got a photo?

I recently ordered 2ea 5 meter rolls of white Solartex from Balsa USA. I've never used used Solartex but from reading a lot about it, it seems that most people rave about it's good qualities. It's supposed to accept almost any kind of paint. White seemed best for whatever color scheme that I choose.

Ken
Old 12-23-2002, 10:20 PM
  #264  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Ken, I like the idea of having the option of removing the center section if I want or need to. You are correct that most work should be able to be done through the door but the more options I have the better. I agree that gluing will offer additional strength but the wires and j bolts are designed to take the load in combination with the wing struts. If your wires fail, your glue won't mean squat.
I may not build the functional door however I will be building in a functional left side hinged window for access and scale effect. This mod will offer me good access and take nothing away from structural integrity.
As for the door, even if mine is not fully functional, it will look as if it is and full integrity will be intact.
It has been clear to me for some time now that this bird can only be a sport scale model. There are too many little errors in outline for it to be anything more. I don't think extending the windshield forward by 1 1/4 " will impact the look at all. For that matter, based on the errors I have discovered in outline (Minor) to assume that the windshield as shown on plans is scale is a leap of faith.
I agree that 99% of admirers will not notice the items we are discussing but I have chosen to massage things here and there to make myself happy.
If I were ever inclined to want to compete in scale competitions with a SD of this scale I would redraw the plans and fix everything.

I have been finishing up a few little things on the cowl today and then I will be coating with Featherfill for final plug finishing. At this point it's looking very good to me. Unfortunately my digital camera is not around right now but I could post a low res (640x480) frame out of some digital video. I'll email you a small video walk around tonight if I get a chance and you'll get a better idea of how it looks from different angles.
Regarding covering, I will either be using supercoverite or Stitts lite system. The stitts system is a lot more work, but totally scale. Besides I have to practice the stitts technique for when my full scale Supercub is ready for covering.
I have used solartex before and I'm not super impressed with it. No major complaints but no rave reviews either. The worst covering I have ever used was that 21st century stuff.


Lee
Old 12-24-2002, 04:41 AM
  #265  
inthetrees
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Lee,
Can you get supercoverite ?

I have not been able to find it, in 1979 I built a Sterling corsair 36" w.s. and covered it with Supercoverite and loved it ......lost 20 years in there somewhere, then started again in 1999.

The corsair I never flew, it hangs in my parents rec room.

Your right about our investments, I don't tell the neighbors, or wife for that matter.............

Ken looking good ! I see the cowl in pic, can you post a front side shot with cowl stuck in place?

Yes my gear was 1 " too wide but the saw took care of that !

Jeff

There should be a law against having to work, when it takes away from your model building time....
Old 12-24-2002, 04:54 AM
  #266  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Jeff,
Sure you can still get it. It comes in 15 ft rolls too. That's how I buy it. I feel it can't be beat if your intention is to paint a final finish. I'm a much better builder than coverer so I'll go through 2- 15 ft rolls on this bird.
Funny you should mention the Sterling corsair. That's the very first model I ever built. Bought it from Tower when I was 13 (also twenty years ago). I glassed mine and as you might guess it never flew. It took a while for me to understand wing loading. Seems like a lot of us took many years off eh? The upside is we come back with more money, brains and patience. Unfortunately we don't have the wealth of time we had when we were punks.

Lee
Old 12-24-2002, 12:13 PM
  #267  
Ron Eisner
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Good morning guys and happy holidays. I have been covering models for 25 years and there is only one system (other then iron on films) that I have found to be completely consistant and has never let me down. It's good old nitrate and Sig Coverall.

I know you have to get past the nitrate "high" but a simple window fan in my shop takes care of that. The Coverall is cheap, a gallon of nitrate lasts forever, probably four or five giants, and the process ALWAYS results in a beautiful, scale like finish. I NEVER have ANY seems cause I brush them out and if needed, there are lots of pinking tapes out there for detailing. A simple dab af white glue and stitching is done!

As for color, I started with butyrate dopes from Randolph and SureFlyte, tried the S**** system but really found my true love with the Nelson System 3 water based, no smell, .25 cent foam brush freakin beautiful gloss finish paints.

If you have something that works stay with it, but if you are looking for something simple... and truly enjoyable to use, try the Coverall.

More shots of this Cub are on my site at "Projects"...

www.randdaero.com
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:14 PM
  #268  
SteveD-RCU
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

I know some guys that are using regular dress fabric and latex house paint with good success.The fabric is attached with white glue.Roy Vallincourt has done this with great results,plus it can be done indoors.Hey Lee what do you think of the LMA Super Cub plans and manual.Me and a couple of friends are considering ordering a set and building one..Steve
ps..hows the cowl coming?
Old 12-24-2002, 07:10 PM
  #269  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Steve,
I have used nylon fabric (dacron) that I use in my factory in combination with latex paint. It works just fine but I'll have so much cash in this bird when it's done that a few extra bucks on covering is ok. I really like Super coverite for giant birds because it has a good scale weave. It also shrinks like crazy for guys who build better than they cover. You do have to be careful though, it is strong and shrinky enough to warp your structure.
The jury is still out on what I will use but again I need the practice with the stitts so that will be a good choice for me. Bye the way, is there some inside joke that I'm missing regarding S*****?

Unfortunately winter in Winnipeg is not really conducive to open windows so dope and paints can mean only one thing- good times man. My dogs and I are still buzzed from the Featherfill I sprayed on the cowl plug last night. :stupid:
Steve the plans and manual for the Supercub are ok if your a modeler. The A/C is really just a full scale replica built using all the same skills and materials we use to build our giant scalers (except balsa of course). Using wood in a full scale people pusher is scary to some people, but my experience with models makes me confident in the A/C's integrity, and building it requires no special equipment, just a bigger shop.
I bought my plans and manual in 96', before the computer explosion so Fred did most of the drawings and such by hand and typewriter. They are a little amateurish in appearance but easy to follow. His new manuals are updated and much better looking. As for the plans they are full size items - pretty neat to unroll them and read.
I would estimate that the Supercub will take about 3 times the hours to build than this Super Decathlon.
I assume that you have been to their web site. If you haven't done so already you should join the LMA group on Yahoo groups. We discuss things as they come up, just like here. There is a link on the LMA website.
I don't really want to get too off topic on this thread, but if you email me at maternick@shaw.ca, we can discuss in more depth.

Happy holidays all.

Lee

Here's a pic of the fuse bones. (pic from LMA website)
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Old 12-25-2002, 03:59 AM
  #270  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Lee,
Your post # 266 hit the nail right on the head !



Jeff
Old 12-25-2002, 05:12 AM
  #271  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Steve , I forgot to mention that LMA is now offering a full scale Taylorcraft if that's more your style. As a Canadian I'm sure your more inclined to the bush qualities of the Supercub though as I am. Supercub on floats....how can you beat that? well maybe a 185 on same. I have a homebuilt all metal 185 contact in Quebec if your interested but that's huge bucks and mucho hours.


lee
Old 12-25-2002, 01:25 PM
  #272  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Yes the Taylorcraft would be nice,I did inquire about the airfoil on it and Doc said it would probably be flat bottom so we'll see on that one,but Id really like a S.Cub because thats what I learned on .It was a baffed out Super Cub on floats that burned a quart of oil every two hours but we loved it.
Right now I have a Challenger II ultralight on amphibs/ or skis right now and its hard to beat for low and slow flying.It will cruise at 75 on skis/wheels also...
I had a 1/3 B USA Cub with a G62 and that was very close to flying qualitys of the full scale Cub...I have to wait for a bigger shop to build a 100% scale however so thats my next step....Steve
Old 12-26-2002, 04:13 AM
  #273  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Here is a photo of the cowl. The front end is 7 7/8" from the firewall. It fits like a tight glove. The upper corners have a little gap but these can be fixed with a little balsa glued in and shaped. Probably not even worth the effort as the gap is pretty small. I used poster board to make a good fitting pattern for the windshield. The upper back of the cowl comes within 1" of the front of the windshield. The cowl could actually be moved a little closer.

Ken
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Old 12-26-2002, 04:24 AM
  #274  
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Here is a little trick that I used to make sure that the cowl would be in the right place while I was fitting it. I made a pointer that was exactly at the engine center. I then drilled a small hole in the center of the spinner area on the cowl. As I placed the cowl on I sighted through the hole to see that the pointer was centered. Of course when I put the 2 degrees of right thrust in the engine, I will offset the engine the correct amount to the left so that the spinner will come out in the right place.

Ken
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Old 12-26-2002, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon

Steve,
I think you should order the LMA5XW plans before short selling your building space. I am starting this winter in my basement model building shop and plan to build numerous sub structures to be moved to a hanger for completion.
This project as any giant scale project, in my opinion requires close proximity to your living space. Otherwise you'll find reasons to not come in contact with your half finished project. The requirement for the Supercub is only a 20'x4' table and I'm sure you can manage that. There's no way your building space is smaller than mine.
Drop me an email, I'm interested if you have sourced out a good Canadian distributor for sitka spruce.

Ken, looking good (of course).
What kind of tool did you have to use to get your Stan's cowl on? (sledgehammer) Are you happy with it's fit? If so I must be an anal retentive jerk, because it wasn't looking anywhere close to good to me. I thought that our construction was the same but if you can place the stock cowl as you have it can't be.
I assume that the plan windscreen pattern was off. Did you add more rake.

Lee

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