Paint question?
 

This is a general question to help me select the type of paint that I am going to use.
I think I have narrowed it down to two brands, Klass Kote or Polytone, (Stits product)
I am going to paint a 1/3 scale YMF-5 Waco soon and due to the size of the aircraft and expense of the paint I would like some opinions from folks who possibly have used both.
I am not asking, what is the best paint as they both are probably equal, I'm just requesting your experience with each which will help me to decide.

Thank you for your time, Sincerely, Ron Gooden

WACO Brother #216
and WW1 Aircraft Nut

RE: Paint question?
 

Hi Ron,
Here are a couple builds that helped me decide on Klass Kote.
Look at post 1213 in this thread. All the paint and marking are Klass Kote [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10635038/mpage_49/key_/tm.htm]Redbuiscuits P-47[/link]

Look at popst 1198 in this thread. Again Klass Kote paint, this will give you a good idea of what their gloss paint looks like. Very Shiney. [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11208903/mpage_48/key_/tm.htm]VJ's Ryan STA[/link]

So far all I have sprayed is the primer and I am very pleased with it. I will use a full quart of primer. The color coats will be gloss white and gloss insignia blue.
I have never used the Polytone but Robert(acerc) is getting ready for paint on his 1/3 Pitts and he is using Polytone.
Later!!
Anthony

RE: Paint question?
 

Have you ever thought about using Latex house paint? Now that is cheap paint and works great. I'm using that on my 40% Waco and have used it on a number of other plane in my hanger. I use a sprayer, mix with windshield washerfluid ( the blue stuff)and flowtrol, It is fuelproof (gasoline) or if you use glow fuel then you'll need to cover it with clear cote. I found out about this on the web site and have used this method for years with out any problems at all.<div>Heinz <span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 15px;"></span></div><div class="vspib" aria-label="Result details" role="button" tabindex="0" style="bottom: 0px; cursor: default; height: auto; margin: 0px; min-height: 40px; padding-left: 9px; padding-right: 4px; position: absolute; right: -37px; top: -2px; width: 28px; z-index: 3; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 15px;"><div class="vspii" style="border-top-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-style: solid none solid solid; border-top-color: transparent; border-bottom-color: transparent; border-left-color: transparent; border-top-left-radius: 2px; border-top-right-radius: 2px; border-bottom-right-radius: 2px; border-bottom-left-radius: 2px; cursor: default; -webkit-user-select: none;"><div class="vspiic" style="background-image: url(https://www.google.ca/images/nav_logo117.png); height: 13px; margin-left: 6px; margin-top: -7px; opacity: 0.3; position: absolute; top: 50%; visibility: visible; width: 15px; background-position: -3px -260px; background-repeat: initial initial;"></div></div></div><h3 class="r" style="font-size: medium; font-weight: normal; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; overflow: hidden; text-overflow: ellipsis; white-space: nowrap; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><em style="font-weight: bold; font-style: normal;">latex paint[/i]part 1 - Wyliewarbirds.com</h3><div class="s" style="max-width: 42em; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 15px;"><div class="f kv" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102); margin-bottom: 1px;"><cite style="color: rgb(0, 153, 51); font-style: normal; display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 1px;">www.wyliewarbirds.com/howto/paint/latexpaint.pdf</cite>http://<span class="pplsrsl" style="...">Share</span></div><span class="f" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">File Format:</span>PDF/Adobe Acrobat -Quick View</div><div><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">I started to use</span><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"></span><em style="line-height: 1.24; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-weight: bold; font-style: normal;">latex paints[/i]<span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"></span><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">as an alternate finish on R/C models around 1983.</span><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"></span><b style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">...[/b]<span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">progressed I got to find out that not only were</span><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"></span><em style="line-height: 1.24; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-weight: bold; font-style: normal;">latex paints[/i]<span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"></span><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">a lot cheaper and</span><span style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"></span><b style="line-height: 1.24; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">...[/b]</div>

RE: Paint question?
 

Not so much of an answer but a lead off question of my own here .....

I have used Klass Kote and a bunch of the older but similar K&B SuperPoxy over solid surfaces but never over open bay fabric. Is Klass Kote flexible enough for long term use over fabric without cracking? It is certainly a good product.

I have used Stits paints before with good results and I know it is flexible. Not as shiny as the epoxy paints when sprayed but it can be buffed to a very nice finish. Some advantages of the Stits process are it's ease of repair if needed and the paint doesn't require a catalyst.

Another paint process that I have used is the automotive urethanes. The single stage, catalyzed products are very flexible and have a high, resistance to most any fuel. The basecoat / clearcoat products are not quite as flexible as the single stage types but offer a shine and depth that can't be matched by any other process. I prefer Urethane clears over any base including Klass Kote if a top coat is needed.

RE: Paint question?
 

From what I have been told Klass Kote will remain flexible enough for a fabric finish.

I hope it is as my Waco is going to be painted with Klass Kote. The 1st paint job on this plane was latex, I could not get a good gloss finish even after spraying Minwax gloss Polycrylic over the latex.

I am also going to add 3M vinyl pinstripe tape. If I decide to clear over the plane I will look into the urethane clear. Thanks for the tip!!
Anthony

RE: Paint question?
 

Thanks guys for the info, I use latex on my WW1 planes with great success, but it will not gloss up enough for this project. Thanks Heinz
If you put plastisizer in acrylic enamel it will stay flexible, also the clear urethane will also work over latex house paint. Thanks Truckracer
I am putting a pretty fancy paint job on my Waco so I want it to be really glossy and slick without adding forty pounds of primer.
This will give me something to think about.
WacoNut, I have been watching your rebuild with great interest, the primer that you just applied to your Waco looks marvelous, it looks like it filled the fabric great with just two coats.
So far Klass-Kote is leading and Poly-tone is a close second.
Thanks WacoNut for those pictures, those aircraft really shine, I've never had a shiny airplane but with the Waco I can.

Thanks again Fellas

Waco Brother #216

RE: Paint question?
 

If you want a glossier finish with the Poly-Tone paints, you can always finish it off with their high-gloss clear coat. Personally, I like the Stits paints as the paint is very forgiving. Easy to correct issues that crop up like dust that settles on the wet paint or runs. Additional coats sort of melt into the previous coat and help make blemishes disappear.

RE: Paint question?
 

Anthony, If you use a urethane clear top coat make sure it's automotive type. The wood finishing urethanes will yellow over a white finish. Mitch

RE: Paint question?
 

Hi Mitch,
I will go with an automotive clear if I use one. I have an auto paint store about 1 mile from my work. I am sure they would hook me up with a good product.
Later!!
Anthony

RE: Paint question?
 

RUNS, God forbid!

That would be a plus, sounds like it would be easier to work with when using several colors, when finished painting all the patterns and graphics then I just need to clear coat the whole thing.

I plan on trying the stits covering, I plan on installing the rib tape with the glue, My last 1/3 scale plane I hand stitched the whole thing and it didn't take that much longer, plus it looked a lot better than the artificial way, applying tape with adhesive on the back doesn't work out well.
At least I had trouble with it.

I appreciate all the comments, it gets me thinking, and that's quite a feat anymore.

Thank you everyone for the ideas.

Waco Brother #216

RE: Paint question?
 

Some good stuff here!

RE: Paint question?
 

Heinz,

Can you use the Latex over Butyrate doped Koverall fabric?

Dave

RE: Paint question?
 

I know this question was for Heinz, but in case anyone was wondering, I have used latex over doped Solartex with no problem at all.
You must make sure that the dope has completely gassed off, you should allow the dope to dry at least five days or it will continue gassing off and lift the latex.
Mr. Vaillancourt suggests that if you no longer can smell the dope on the surface then you can paint.


Waco Brother #216

RE: Paint question?
 

Offer four data points that may serve just to confuse but here goes.   ;)<div>
</div><div>A. In 2003 timeframe covered a BALSA USA N28 with  full F&amp;M process from Polyester covering applied with Polytac, 2 coats Polybrush and a couple of coats of PolySpray followed by Polytone paint just like the Video from Chip Mull.  No problems with sagging or wrinkles but the paint is not very resistant to hanger rash.  Use Glow engine and no problems with fuel residue.   It has a semi-gloss finish  and over the long term sort of dulls.  Otherwise is fine.</div><div>
</div><div>B. Next plane, 2005,  was a 1/4 scale Albatros where I used the same F&amp;M process up thru and including Polyspray but painted with Klasskote paint.  Lightly scuffed the Polyspray before the satin KK and it has held up great.  Looks like the day it was painted and the surface is tough.  No cracking or wrinkles.   Only comment would be that the light red and light green  does not cover real well.  THe  Blue and Dark greens  and especially white cover  well.  The challenge with KK is not to build up a thick layer.</div><div>
</div><div>C. Next plane, was a 30% BU-133.  Covered in Koverall using Nitrate dope for attachment and filling the weave. painted KK directly over the Nitrate dope.   Applied about 8 coats of 50/50 Nitrate dope and used the F&amp;M pinking tapes with lots of coats of dope to fill them.   Had pin holes where the dope did not 100% seal the weave over some solid areas and in some areas of the pinking tapes that did not get enough dope I believe.  I also suspect that the Koverall might have a more open weave than the F&amp;M material.   THe plane was painted gloss yellow and I should have first applied a coat of white for a uniform surface.  Otherwise the paint has held up great with no issues in hot weather.   THe Nitrate dope keeps things tight.  Also like the use of Nitrate dope that completely fills the material, just like Polybrush fills the Polyester covering from F&amp;M so that you can make any edge overlaps disappear with some care and fine sandpaper.  Looks just like the day it was painted, about 3 years ago.</div><div>
</div><div>In comparison the Polybrush perhaps fills the weave better of the Polyester material than Nitrate dope does with Koverall but both work.  </div><div>
</div><div>D. Next was a Taurus pattern plane that covered with natural Solartex with Niitrate dope over it (as recommended by others, it as an experiment and painted with KK without any primer.  Applied two coats of Nitrate to the bare balsa before applying the Solartex based on recommendations from others.    Painted it dark blue and white and had no issues at all.  I found that I should have been more patient with edge overlap of the Solartex as, I suspect due to the Solartex adhesive, was hard to make them disappear.</div><div>
</div><div>For a small area like an elevator or rudder Soartex works great and would continue using KK paints.  For the lighter colors would first apply a light coat of white.</div><div>
</div><div>Have a balsa USA kit for a SPAD XIII and I suspect the best of both worlds might  be to first cover with the F&amp;M process, might use something other than POLYTAC to apply it like STIX-IT, up thru application of the Polyspray and than paint with Klasskote using the satin catalyst which seems to spray easier than the Gloss catalyst.  THe Gloss catalyst seems to run easier than the satin catalyst.   If a gloss is required than use a KK or other gloss clear coat. (Per Dave Platt video).   I am tempted to use Latex but have not yet.  </div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>I have not used MINWAX Polycrylic to fill the weave of Koverall. </div><div>
</div><div>For what it's worth.....(which may not be much.....)  :)</div><div>
</div><div>ray</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

RE: Paint question?
 

I have used Koverall on serveral projects including a Gee Bee that has been repaired several times.
Lately I've had good results using waterbase polycrilic to fill the weave. (First apply wood sealer to keep the water from warping the frame.).
About four coats and then a coat of automotive sandable primer to fill the weave completely.
A light sanding and then painted with Rustoleum enamel paint. Gives a good gloss finish and seams to stay flexable of open bays.
Most of my planes are gas but Rustoleum is supposed to be good for up to 15% nitro glo.

RE: Paint question?
 

Thanks for all the info Ray, I know it took you a while to type out all that info, I really appreciate the effort and time.
I am thinking like you about using the stits product for covering and priming and then use Kloss Kote to put the final on.

We have a club member who used stix-it on his 1/3 scale BUSA pup ( under cambered wings) and it is still holding 16 years later.


As far as using latex, several of our club members including myself use latex on WW1 and 2 aircraft with superb results.
Go to the website below and print out latex articles part 1 and 2.

http://www.vaillyaviation.com/Item%20list.html

Thank you for the info....Ron