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Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Old 10-21-2004, 12:34 PM
  #51  
Darrell B.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

It looks like another motor can be used if the Actro 40-4 doesn't work out. Hobby Lobby will be selling a monster-sized PJS 8000 for giant-scale planes spinning a 23" prop!

Greg,
Any Idea when they will be showing this motor as available? Have you heard anything about the new AXI 5330? I am looking at the AXI of the mustang. I think APC makes a 23 or 24 inch prop that can be tip trimmed a little if need be, although I like the 14" pitch of their 21 inch prop. Have you heard if they might be developing a better assortment of sizes for these larger planes? We can only hope! Is there a better prop choice on these larger birds?

Good Luck, and Thanks,
Darrell
Old 10-21-2004, 12:57 PM
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Greg Covey
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Darrell,

The new Hobby Lobby catalog shows many new PJS motors from the 1500 up to an 8000 so I would expect them to arrive soon.

The AXI 53xx motors should also arrive shortly. I'll see if I can pin down a timeframe.

RCU has been talking with APC about additional prop sizes mostly for low-pitch 3D flying but I can also add some larger size prop pitch changes. On these large electric props, another alternative is to use a folding prop which greatly reduces the start up torque. I expect Graupner to have new larger size blades as well.
Old 10-21-2004, 01:16 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Thanks Greg!

I looked at the Hobby Lobby catalog, and the PJS 8000 says that it uses folding plades that attach right to the housing. It is also only rated at 42 Amps. Hmmm!

Darrell
Old 10-22-2004, 08:30 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Darrell,

Since Power = voltage times current, it makes me suspect that my Actro motor will do a better job than the PJS 8000.

Using a 10s Lithium configuration, the voltage is around 36 volts with a light load. The PJS 8000 at 36v x 42amps = 1512 watts. My Actro 40 at 36v x 70amp = 2500 watts.
Old 10-22-2004, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Greg,

2500 Watts would be totaly fatastic! I'm thinking 125 watts/pound on a warbird, should haul it around quite well...

This electric stuff gets better and better.

Keep up the good work!!!

Darrell
Old 10-22-2004, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

I didn't get the performance I thought I should have from my Actro 40-4.
Here's a link to the thread I started. I abandoned my project because it didn't appear I would get the performance I wanted. Maybe I missed something really badly in my calcs.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_21...tm.htm#2101315

Good Luck! Matt
Old 10-23-2004, 07:27 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Hi Matt,

I just answered your PM. Please do post your information here so we can all learn by pooling information.

I will ask Red Scholefield to post his Kokam 2.1AH data under load so we can get a real voltage measurement at 70 amps. Recall that my example used above stated "light load" so the resultant 2500watts is not a realistic number for a 70amp load on a 10s2p pack.
Old 10-23-2004, 07:40 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

I received my Power Force VRLI2 regulator from FMA Direct. The unit is production quality except for the face plate. They made me a temporary paper version. I expect this product will be announced soon.

Here are some feartures of the VRLI2:
[ul][*] Designed for high current servos and receiver in R/C aircraft[*] Ideal for aircraft using dual radio systems[*] Accepts input from 2s to 4s LiPo or 5-12 cell NiCd/NiMH[*] Switch selectable 5v/6v output at 10amps continuous[*] 0.15v dropout when voltage goes below 5v/6v setting[*] Three Status LEDs provide battery condition information[*] Failsafe On/Off switch - fails to ON mode[*] Will not drain battery when switch is Off
[/ul]
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Old 10-23-2004, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

My last motor mount measured only 7.25" from the motor box to the cowl opening. I needed 8" so I cut a 3/4" thick block of hardwood to mount just behind the plywood and extend my motor. I also changed to 1/4-20 t-nuts to fasten my three 1/4"x5" hex head bolts. Each bolts weighs 1.1oz for a total of 3.3oz. Perhaps a thinner bolt could be used here but I get the impression that there is no need to save weight this far forward.

I drilled holes in 5 sides of the mount box on the firewall for air flow into the battery and ESC area. The left photo also shows the built-in right thrust on the motor box. My PVC adapter and wood blocks follow the angle.

Note the perfect covering pattern match from the cowl to the fuselage. This is why I am a Hangar 9 fan!
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Old 10-24-2004, 12:50 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

cool project Greg!!

I have had the PJS5000 in my hands, same as the 8000 but diffrent wind, made for folding props, which are much more slimed then the APCE props, 23x12 RF folder was 2200watts compared to a 24x12 APCE at 3000watts (on my Hacker system), so the 23" on the PJS might only be comparable to a 21" APCE by my mind [:-]

but I think this ship needs more power then the AXI 53/PJS8000 can deliver. I would aim at 4kW+ for 3D performance(?!)
Old 10-24-2004, 05:28 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Hi Henke,

You Europeans get all the fun e-power stuff first!

For 3D performance, I agree with your assessment. My goal here is only aerobatic performance, hence the theme, "1/3 scale at 1/3 the cost".

I feel is that most pilots fly only aerobatic patterns and giant scale 3D is best left for the professionals like Mike McConville.
Old 10-25-2004, 08:22 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

I've always maintained that clean electric planes can be built right on the kitchen table but my wife keeps shaking her head like I'm nuts.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:19 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

My 10s2p Kokam 4.2AH pack is split into two sets of 4s and 6s sub-packs. The sub packs are plugging into Kokam Parallel Connector boards that I split in two using a Dremel tool. Note that the white shrink wrap allows a probe to be stuck inside for measuring individual cell voltage. It also allows me to re-balance the cells, if needed.

I wired the two Parallel Connector boards in series for the 6s + 4s = 10s configuration. Note that one of the Parallel boards has 3 plugs. The third plug is for the Yellow connector to feed a 4s voltage to the FMA Power Force regulator.

The packs sit on a 6"x4" foam pad cut left over from my trailer floor padding purchased at a home improvement store. The foam is very light but high impact meant to walk on for covering a shop floor.

The entire 20 cells can easily fit inside the motor mount box. I'll hold them in place with more foam. After the photos were taken, I added extra wires to the Parallel Connector Modules to ensure a safe 70amp draw and then wrapped them in electric tape so nothing is exposed to short out.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:52 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

ORIGINAL: Greg Covey

Hi Henke,

My goal here is only aerobatic performance, hence the theme, "1/3 scale at 1/3 the cost".

I feel is that most pilots fly only aerobatic patterns and giant scale 3D is best left for the professionals like Mike McConville.
Very true. the twin Hacker system is lot´s of money.

guess I need to pop over and take a look in your hangar one day
Old 10-25-2004, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

I'm using the Red 4" CBA Spinner from [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXA427]Tower Hobbies[/link] along with the Actro-Hub [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/actro-mount.htm]ACT266[/link] adaptor from Hobby Lobby.

The CBA Spinner adapter is very close to the 8mm threaded Actro prop shaft so a little touch-up with an 8mm tap was all that was needed for a great fit.
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

A close-up of my component layout reveals the FMA Power Force regulator, JR receiver, and, first JR Matchbox are mounted with Velcro straps. The Power Force regulator also has the heatsink fins wedged in place against the plywood opening and the 10-amp Dean's input connector is tywrapped to the fiberglass wing bar holder.

I fired up the Actro 40-4 on the 10s2p Lithium pack (33 cells NiCd) and it spins impressively without a prop at only 1/4 throttle! I didn't want to over-RPM the motor so I kept the throttle between 1/3 and off. The FMA PF regulator supplied 6v to the JR receiver, Matchbox, and Jeti 77-amp Opto ESC.

Note that the antenna wire was fed into a plastic tube that I taped to the bottom of the inside of the fuselage. The single Matchbox shown in the photo will control and balance all 4 aileron servos.

I will likely finish up my tail section next using a second Matchbox for the elevator halves and then make some current measurements using an APC 20x10 e-prop once I install the landing gear. One concern is what the actual cell voltage will be at full throttle. Will I be able to get 2000 watts from my 10s2p configuration? We'll see soon enough...
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Old 10-27-2004, 11:52 AM
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Darrell B.
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Wonderful work Greg!!

I like the idea of using the velcro on some of the components. My thinking is that you can fine tune any ballance issues this way, although, on a plane of this size they may not make any difference.. I'm still hoping that you won't need any ballast anywhere to achieve your CG.

What type of flight duration do you expect out of the Kokam packs? I know that this is a hard question, because of all of the issues with how far you push the left stick, so maybe I should just wait and see when you actually get to fly her!!

Please keep the information flowing.

Good Luck,
Darrell
Old 10-27-2004, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Darrell,

I only expect a 5-7minute flight with this pack. The 4.2AH total is a bit low for drawing 30-50amps. The new 3.2AH cells will become available from Kokam USA this Winter in configurations up to 6s3p. A 10s3p configuration of these cells will provide a 10AH total capacity at current draws up to 180amps!

The other nice thing about the new packs will be the built-in cell balancing plug that taps into each individual cell to work with the new chargers...also due out this Winter.
Old 10-27-2004, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Be careful running the high voltage systems without a load. The ESCs don't like it. When I got my first Opto 77, I hooked it up to an Axi 4130 and revved it couple times. The ESC smoked almost immediately. It was replaced under warranty but they were quick to piont out that they shouldn't be ran unloaded.
Matt
Old 10-30-2004, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Question
What is the purpose of the shock mounts on this setup? And are they strong enough that the rubber itself can hold the motor on the plane?
Old 10-30-2004, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Bill,

That's a good question.

They appear to be very strong so I decided to initally use them as they came from Kohler/Actro for this purpose. They also make installation easy on a 1/4" or 5/8" plywood firewall using M4 nuts and t-nuts.

I mounted my 20x10 APC e-prop and 4" CBA spinner this morning so i'll post some pictures soon. After I get the landing gear installed, I'll start my power testing. One of the tests will be to see if the rubber mounts have any ill effect.
Old 10-30-2004, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Greg

I have been following your thread and have a few questions. I just bought an Actro 40-5 for another project, but will look for a future Giant Scale machine. Do you have a weight on the frame w/o electronics??? How did your CG work out? I have in the past used minimalistic setups with one 5945 or 8411 elevator servo even on GS machines under the canopy with pull-pull to the elevator halves. Saves a little bit of weight but foremost moves the CG forward equivalent to another 8-10 ounces in the nose... (same for the rudder...)

I also plan on using one aileron servo only, since low speed operation most likely will be the primary flight envelope. Kevlar threading the ailerons in a criss-cross pattern can hep stiffen them up torsionally.

How much current are you pulling with your setup? I am using a 9S2P 2600 pack on a 18-8E, but haven't measured anything yet, so I have no frame of reference. Probably have to go to a 20-11 or if i can find a higher diameter, lower pitch...

Thanks in advance,

Anders
Old 10-30-2004, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Hi Anders,

I can't answer most of your questions yet because I am still still working on the tail assembly. I installed the elevator servos this afternoon. I was planning on using only one 8611 Ultra Torque servo for the rudder. If I have a tail heavy CG, i'll remember your suggestions.

I'll report my current findings when I actually fire it up with the prop installed. So far, i've only run it 1/4 throttle without a prop. I can only go up to an APC 20x10 e-prop since that it all I have. If the current is less than 65-70amps, i'll likely order a 22x10 prop.

One issue that we have been concerned about is the actual voltage of my 10s2p pack under load. Depending upon the results, I may option for a 10s3p configuration to up the current delivery capability. I am essentially stalling a bit until the new Kokam 3.2AH (20C) cells arrive. They will obsolete everything else to date.
Old 10-31-2004, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

Here are some photos of my APC 20x10 e-prop and 4" red CBA spinner installed.
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540

looks good! that prop must be pretty close to scale?!

flown it yet?

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