Greg Covey

LRV,

You are right about finding a 90mm long M4 screw. I gave up after only finding a 70mm length and changed my technique to use a #10-32 screw. The length needed (without using your adapter suggestion) is 3-1/4" long but 3-1/2" long will work also. I decided that re-tapping the M4 threaded hole in the AXI 5330 prop adapter is not all that unreasonable. A size #10 is the next larger American size from an M4 thread.

Anyway, that will be done shortly and my Tail Trap arrived yesterday so i'll make some power system measurements next week after I return from the Toledo show this weekend. (April 1-3)

Erik Johansson

Any updates on the power system measurements Greg?

/Erik

Greg Covey

Eric,

The Edge 540 sits outside on my back porch as I post. After lunch, i'll take power measurements and some photos using the Tail Trap. I should be able to post them tonight or tomorrow.

Regards.

Greg Covey

It appears that my APC 20x11 prop is a reasonable choice afterall. I measured 2700 watts at 86amps consistantly on four 10 second bursts of full throttle. I'm ready for my maiden flight with the new power system.

Note the use of my [link=http://www.jlproducts.net/]Tail Trap[/link] from JL Power Products.

Erik Johansson

Impressive! Did you get an RPM reading at that power to get a slight idea of how efficient it´s running at such high power levels?

/Erik

Greg Covey

Good point, Eric. I'll try to get an RPM reading tomorrow.

Greg Covey

We flew the Edge 540 yesterday for the first time with its new power system and it performed flawlessly! Our first flight was a basic trim and a few simple aerobatic maneuvers before landing just to get "the monkey" off our back from last fall. The second flight was without charging and we spent some time learning the plane and getting more comfortable with it. We brought it in early so we could get to know the flight duration by measuring battery voltage. The first two flights were about 7 minutes total and we used about 1/2 the 6AH pack capacity. The new Jeti 90-amp Advance Plus ESC seemed to work great!

After charging for about 30 minutes, we had a third flight and pushed the plane harder this time. The power system appears to provide stronger aerobatic maneuvers like giant loops, knife edge, hammer heads, and such, but does not have sufficient power for good 3D hovering and pullout. This was not too surprising as I am not stressing the power system even at full throttle. Again, about a 7 minute flight used only about 3AH. The planes cruises along nicely at only half throttle. I was a very nose heavy this time after the power system changes using the heavier AXI 5330 motor and the fact that I added 6oz of lead inside the cowl. I will try removing 3oz of the lead for the next test flights.

The project goal was to accomplish strong aerobatic capability at 1/3 cost of other dual motor configurations. Although this has now been accomplished, I will test some larger 21" and 22" props to see if the increase in thrust level allows for proper hovering.

Here are my measurements:
[ul][*] 2700 watts at 86amps[*] 6500 RPMs[*] APC 20x11 e-prop
[/ul]

Greg Covey

I took some 35mm photos, digital photos, and some video. These are the digital photos and i'll post the others at a later time. Over the next few weeks, we'll do some more test flying to learn more about the limits of the power system and try the FMA Co-pilot system.

After landing, I felt the AXI motor with my fingers, and, although it was hot, I could keep my fingers on the motor so it wasn't really hot in terms of the motor temperature. This was a good sign for motor longevity.

Darrell B.

Greg,

Great news about the AXI 5330 motor. I am very excited about your results!!!

I have installed my outrunner into my P-51 and will be posting some pics of the installation, as well as the motor.

Your Edge looks really good and sounds like an ideal project for anyone who doesn't need to just hang the plane on the prop.

I look forward to your video.

Great Work,
Good Luck,
Darrell B.

Joacim

Congrats !!! nice to here could you get the temp of the motors core/winding/magnetts after next flight? how are the Jeti 90 holding up? hott... trotteling good, and what setting are you using.

Looking forward four your next report.

Greg Covey

Thanks, guys. I'll use my Temp gun next time on the magnets since those will be hotter than the outter case. No problems with throttle. At 2700 watts, we are not even stressing the new Jeti 90-amp ESC and I have the big heat sink directly in the air flow. I expect that the ESC will handle 4200 watts with little cooling. We should see pricing on it soon from Hobby Lobby and then I can post my cost analysis. It looks like you can achieve a 7-10 minute flight using a 30-cell GP3700mAh NiMH pack and not even need Lithiums to start out with.

I installed the FMA Flight Data Recorder and Wattmeter today. It was a simple plug-in-play setup using the FS8 receiver.

I also set up my Co-pilot in the backyard and found it to be a blast to test out while holding the plane in the air like I was pretending to fly. The control surfaces all moved to correct any offset I put the plane in from level flight. Very cool! It will make for a fun test and video.

I ordered a 21" and 22" APC e-prop from Landing Products and removed 4oz (1/4lb) of lead weight from the cowl since I was quite nose heavy on my first series of flights.

stumax

Great report, Greg! It sounds like the new Axi is just the ticket for sport fliers and big scale models. Do you have any comparative tests between the Axi and Acro on the same prop?

Greg Covey

Stu,

I don't have an Actro 60, only an Actro 40-4 which is a higher Kv motor.

The difference in cost between the AXI 5330 and Actro 40 is $250 and $350, respectively. This makes the AXI motor the popular choice for most applications. My more expensive Actro 40-4 did, however, fit and work nicely in my Icepoint 2-meter pattern plane. The AXI 5330 would never have fit. This is an example where form overrides cost.

The combination of the AXI 5330 with two prop adapters for $250 and the new Jeti 90-amp Advance Plus ESC for only $249 will set the bar for converting giant scale airplanes to clean and quiet electric power!

BoneDoc

My Feedback: (1)

how much do you pay for the battery?

Greg Covey

Josh,

Although the new SKYVOLTS packs are not yet released, we can take a quess at what the 10s pack may cost by using the 3-cell 3.2AH pack on the [link=https://www.fmadirect.com/site/home.htm]FMA Direct[/link] site. A 2-cell pack costs about $90 and a 3-cell pack about $145. This is roughly $45/cell or $450 for a 10s configuration. The 6.4AH pack in my Edge 540 is about $900.

From the [link=http://flydma.com/batteries/batteries.asp?path1=batteries]Diversity Model Aircraft[/link] (DMA) site, we see that a 10-cell pack of GP3700 NiMH is $109 so a 30-cell pack made from three 10-cell packs will cost $327.

Of course, there are many more options like ThunderPower, Tanic, etc. The initial tests show that about a 3AH capacity will provide around a 7 minute flight. This is typically fine for many people so the 3.7AH GP3700 NiMH pack is a viable solution.

If you consider a modest count of 300 flights for the battery pack lifespan, what costs more to fly, glow or electric?

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

This is the BIG question.

There are variables to consider here, such as if put the plane in, do the LiPOs get trashed also? With gas, your out plane, maybe engine, maybe electronics, and $2.00 in gas. With these larger electrics the difference could be in the packs being damaged.

Of course, there are benefits also.

Alot of interesting info coming out of this thread, keep it up!!![sm=thumbup.gif]

stumax

Thanks for the info Greg. Sorry, I forgot you were using different size Actros (there's just too many motors to choose from thesedays!). In my opionion, for the giant scale conversions, I see no reason to spend up on lipos as a 32xGP3700 pack, or the BP3400's which are only $4 per cell, will do just fine and the model will be no heavier than the gas powered vibrator. My experience with my big Bf109e is that due to the big props we can spin, horsepower for horsepower e-flight conversions give much better performance than their IC counterparts, and I'm finding a good conversion rate is to look at the BHP value of the IC engine, then use that number in kW for the e-flight version.

OK, Greg, it's time for you to do a Yellow Aircraft P47...........

Joacim

One trubbel has been to parallel a lot 3p...4p..5p, but now there are cells that can handle these type of currents in only 10s or max 10s2p, that puts the saftey up and $$$ down alot.
So if you make a 10s pack with 2x 5s you can use a 5cell pack for your smaler 60sice plane.

Greg Covey

After a quick charge off my truck battery, the big Edge 540 was sent on its third flight.

Greg Covey

The Edge 540 looks fantastic against the blue sky!

My 21" and 22" props should arrive soon and I'll test them out for 3D capability as well as my FMA co-pilot. I should have some in-flight current measurements soon as well.

Joacim

Its time to test this beuty with a Actro 60!?!? i have now tested a Actro 60-175 with the Jeti advance 90 controller, FINALY a controller that works with this motor no start up problem even at 27" props. Test was done with diffrent props 24-27", Menz, Mejzlik, Nolimit and APCE, the 10s2p Polyquest battery is brand new, so these data was taken on the first charge, the cells will hold up better after 5-7 charges.

27x13" APCE
33v
75amp
4100rpm

Motor after 15min of testing was barly warm, even after long time partial trottel tests, so i never took time to get any temp data...nothing was warm, will take some temp on the system after fligt in the summer. 27" sems to be the limit on this motor, so to get more trust on 10s setup i will try some 3bladed props 25-26".

Greg Covey

Joacim,

Were you testing the Actro 60 in a plane or on the bench? Your setup looks to be about 2500 watts so you are not stressing the Jeti 90-amp ESC at all. Although I don't have specs on the ESC yet, my belief is that it can handle 4200 watts minimum.

I really like my Actro 40 motor. It is well engineered and works great in my Icepoint 2-meter pattern plane. When I can get another Jeti 90-amp ESC, i'll replace the Jeti 77-amp ESC for some added power without worry of it cutting out and reseting in flight.

Joacim

Yes the controller and motor seems to handle alot more, but... 75amp on 27x13" ... maby it will go up to 80amps on 34v when the cells have had some more charges, this motor will need some big 3blade prop to puch more or 11-12s Lipo, it is rated to 85amp and still have high %

Joacim

I was testing the motor in plane but on ground, will try it in my 2m SU-26EL and also 28% Wild hare Extra 300special.

Greg Covey

FMA Direct has announced their new [link=https://www.fmadirect.com/site/wolf/scorpionSplashPage/]Scorpion[/link] battery packs for the R/C car world. This means that we'll be next with the bigger packs for R/C airplanes called SKYVOLTS.