wilinfla

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Thanks guys, I have to get my Hog Bipe off the board and then the Great Planes Fokker done and this will be my next project. I'm looking forward to some quiet flight and no glow mess

c-grain

Mickey,Here's what I call the "Super Kadet"wide body.Was built about 2-yrs.ago.Will fill you in on the specs on the next post,since the server timmed me out last time.

c-grain

Ok,it worked this time.The specs.for the Super Kadet are as follows:

Span---------------86"
Area 1450sq."
Weight-all-up 8.3#
Power--Saito 91 4-s(soon to be converted to Axi 4130-20)
Mods. to airframe as follows:
78 to 86" span increase-Large ailerons,flaps,elev.&rudder
New Fus width-6.75",height-8.5",fiberglass cowl(Cessna 182 ARF from tower)
Tail-dragger W/Goldberg Sukoi Al.gear(lightened)
This plane was orrigginally built to cary a 2-3# cargo at 8000'+.As it turns out the problem is getting it down!Had to reverse the flaps to spoileron conf. to cure the problem!It seems,at this altitude,reduced DRAG is the culprit here-not lack of lift!Anyway it flies like a clipped wing cub--lots of aerobatics-even inverted!
Oh,it has a plug-in wing(outer panels)& a removable tail W/pull-pull rudder& tailwheel
Floats are next after the E-conversion.
P.S. For the last 1.5years,I've been flying elect.90% of the time-smaller planes so far up to 60" span
Rich Karp----zooming around@8000'+ ASL

c-grain

Tweet,I also enjoyed your input>Seems like a lot of Coloradans are flying @ 5000'+ W/E-power!Here's one I designed for the MPJet 2820-7#3200 3-s Apogee for power.Takeoff roll(WOT)30-40',climbs out-70-80Deg.on APC-e 14x7!I call it the "Coyote 650")65 oz AUW.650 sq.in.wing area.
Originally designed for pattern & 3-d,hence the long tail moment.Flys 3-d w/Axi 2826-10 on 4-sLIPO.

c-grain

Here's some more I designed for E-PWR.

Tweet

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C-grain,

Nice designs. One great thing about electrics is performance does not suffer as much at altitude because the motor does not lose power like a recip engine does (of course propellors and all other airfoils are less efficient).

mickey-gem

Nice planes C-grain, The modifications you did for your Kadet are great!
That is a benefit of building from a kit.

Keep up the great designs and conversions!

Jesse

mickey-gem

I have not had a chance to Fly the Kadet on the new AXI 4120/18 setup (too much snow, expected to clear up tomorrow)
so I applied the watt meter to this setup, here are some numbers:

- AXI 4120/18
- Top Flite 13x8 power point wood prop
- 2 Kokam 3S 3200 mah packs wired in series (6S1P)
- 33 amps (Full Throttle)
- 680 watts
- 8500 RPM


I performed a second test on an APC 13x10 E prop This is how much that extra pitch changes the numbers;

- 44 amps
- 860 watts
- RPM (did not trust the readings on my tachometer today, too cloudy)

The 13x10 might look better on 5S, I will have to experiment with that.

The thrust produced on the 13x10 E prop was noticibly greater! 180 watts makes a big difference in holding
the plane back while trying to read the numbers on the watt meter ( Astro Super Watt Meter, I will be ordering
the Medusa power analizer soon, however)

A word of caution when testing your systems, advance the throttle in small incremental stages to allow yourself
to prepare for the thrust these motors can produce.

So, the numbers look much better on the 13x8 prop, just from an efficiency standpoint, I did try a 14x8 APC E prop
on this setup. At about 3/4 throttle it began to vibrate, so I immediately aborted that test, the prop seemed to be
balanced ok, I will have to try again with another prop, I did notice that while reaming this prop to fit the 6mm shaft
it was slightly off center. The AXI motors website did test with a 14x9.5 prop on 18c (23.4v) so it should be ok with 6S(22.2v)
I will try again with a different prop.

Hope these numbers help in motor selection for some of you, enjoy.

Jesse

c-grain

Jesse,thanks for the nice reply.I am wondering why you don't use a larger prop such as a 15x6 instead of the 13x8 or 10?The kadet doesn't need a lot of speed,as I'm sure you know,& the larger the prop diameter-the more the efficiency.Also,a larger dia.w/less pitch will probably pull close to the same amps but with a lot more THRUST.BTW,where do you fly down there & do you fly on floats?
Rich

c-grain

Tweet, also thanks for the reply!Your right about props @ altitude.I usually spin the largest dia.I can at this alt.! Always out-performs the smaller ones unless I'm looking for speed.Back in the earily 90's I used to fly at Murock dry lake(Edwards AFB,Ca.)Several of the juys in the club had kadets as relaxing slow fliers.One day we were flying the Kadets and a couple of guys got into a RACE! Before you knew it,the "Kadet races" were bourn!!!Tons of fun--lots&lots of laughs!!No one ever lost a plane due to mid-air or any other cause during the races.The planes had to be stock dementions & a limit to the motor size was in place.Keep in mind these races were strictly for fun!Are you waiting for the kit or ARF?Think you might be interested in racing?Sounds rediculous doesn't it.
Rich

mickey-gem

Hello C-grain,

I definately have been meaning to try a larger dia. prop, every time I have tried I have been experiencing
a great amount of vibration from the larger props. The good news is I think I solved that problem, I think my spinner
was causing all the vibration (Stock spinner from Kadet ARF). I have a 14x6, 14x8, 14x10, 15x6, 15x8, and 15x10 E
props that I have not even had a chance to try yet because of the vibration issue. So I hope to try them soon!
Sounds like you are having great experiences with the larger diameter props with about the same efficiency, I can't
wait to try them!

I also had a problem with my FMA direct Quantum 8 receiver that I have in the Kadet, I was grounded two weekends
in a row because of severe servo glitching, I had to replace the FMA with the older technology Hitec supreme 6.
At least I can mechanically I can fly now, but we seem to be coming in to the windy season, so I am waiting now
for calmer days! Always something!!!



Regards,

Jesse

c-grain

Jesse,yyou will be verrrrry happy w/large props!!!!!For this type of plane speed is not the ticket,it's climb-out you need for fun aerobatics.Low-pitched-large dia. props("tractor-props")as we called them in the freeflight world were designed to pull the machine "srtaight-up"at a moderate speed to like a rocket if you were competing.This verticle prowess comes in handy when your plane is close to the ground&stalling.
About the Vibration thing,have you checked the motor Mt.&is the output-shaft running true!Hey,If you like the Kadet,what about on of these?
Rich

c-grain

Tried to post pic in "quick reply mode-ops! I'm about to build this one from Balsa USA plans-80"span,4130-20 for power

loone

I've been runing a APCE 18-10 on my senior for over 2 years now and it performs very well. can't go full out for long because it is over amping the motor with 2 TP 4200 Packs (about 50 amps) and goes anywhere you want it, including vertical.

On my extra I'm running an identical setup with a 16-10 and full out it gives me 43 amps which is right.

mickey-gem

C-grain,


Thanks for the advice on the larger diameter smaller pitch props!
I did some testing:

14x6 zinger wood prop- 750 Watts, 36Amps

15x6 zinger wood prop- 830watts, 40 Amps

6S lipos

The model motors web site lists 40 amps as the maximum efficiency cutoff
for the 4120/18. So it is right on the sweet spot with the 15x6 prop! I will
probably loose about 3-4 minutes of flight time on the 3200 mah packs,
which puts me at about 15 minutes flight time , but that is a fair trade for
the amount of power this will pruduce.

I ordered some top flight power point 15x6 props today, I can's seem to find
any electric props in 14x6 or 15x6, so I guess I will stick with good ol' wood.
I think the wood props look nice on the Kadet anyway.

Thanks!

Jesse

mickey-gem

I found some wheel pants that work very well for this application. I ordered them
from Tower Hobbies, they for the .60 size U-can do beautifully finished fiberglass and
only $15 Here are a few pics. The wheel pants are Right and Left, and there are grooves
molded into the inside section which match perfectly with the Hanger 9 HAN 60 size Dural
gear, this prevents the pants from twisting.

Enjoy!

mickey-gem

A few more.

Tweet

My Feedback: (1)

Looks nice.

Did you dial in flaperons and if so how did they work?

c-grain

Mickey,those pants look great!I should order some for my Super Kadet.How big of a wheel will they take?Your plane looks like it could be a full-scale of some kind now.What cowl are you using or did you build it yourself?

A10FLYR

My Feedback: (1)

2 ½ to 3" I just get the U Can Do gear set.

mickey-gem

C-grain,


The wheels I am using are Dave Brown low-bounce lite wheels, 3.5 inches. The stock wheels
for the Sig ARF are 3.75 inches, I could have used them, but more of the wheels would have stuck
out of the bottom. I think the 3.5 inches are about the max for these .60 size U-CAN-Do wheel pants.
I still have clearance for a 15 inch prop, and could probably go to 16 inch prop as well.

Yes these wheel pants are the perfect size for this plane, and the plane takes on a whole different look!
Much more 'scale' looking.

The cowel is the stock cowl that comes with the SIG Kadet Senior ARF. I made no modifications to it
accept dremeling the two vent holes in the front of it.

I do need to find a spinner that will work with the larger Zinger props, but will not be out of proportion
with the cowling. I have not had any luck with finding one that will work, any suggestions would be helpfull.

Regards,

Jesse

c-grain

c-grain

Thanks for the reply A10,I ordered the pants for the 1/4 scale Extra 300s as I,m running 4" wheels on the super kadet.Also,I have the modified gear from the goldberg Sukoi that allows me to turn an 18" prop.BTW,I put a set of SpringAir retracts in the Sukoi-looks like a WW2 fighter except for the color sceme w/gear up!!
Rich

c-grain

Mickey,just enlarge the holes in a plastic or Al. spinner with your Dremel tool,ben doing it for years.Just make sure you ballance the spinner when it's finished!
Rich

mickey-gem

Tweet,

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your question about Flaperons. I do have
them programmed in, on a switch at 100% deflection, and on one one of my radio
knobs for proportional deflection.

I have not had a chance to experiment very much with it because of wind
and snow. I did tried it once at altitude, with the switch at full deflection, it did
seem to slow the plane down considerably, and I still had decent aileron response.

I will let you know when I use it more and actually attempt a landing with it.


regards,

Jesse