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Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

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Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Old 11-05-2005, 12:31 AM
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Default Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

This Cessna is a beauty! I am thinking about converting her to EP as a future project, but I am concerned about the weight. I prefer slow, straight flight with shallow turns as opposed to aerobatics. On average, how much flight time could I get out of her with this weight?

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin...82Skylane.html


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Old 11-09-2005, 12:33 AM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Well, I spoke to the sales guys at Chief Aircraft and they informed that at least one customer converted this plane to EP. They mentioned that an AXI 4130 and several 6000mah batteries in series.

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Old 11-14-2005, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

If you go on line at horizonhobby.com and find the H9 planes and then the cessna, you'll find a whole manual covering the conversion. Very well documented. Have fun...
Old 01-14-2006, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

I will be starting on the Hanger 9 Skylane conversion next week. You should not have any trouble with the conversion.

Here is my setup:
Hacker C50 13XL brushless motor
Hacker Opti-77 speed controller
Hacker motor mount.
Thunderpower 5s4p(two packs in series)Li-poly. 2,400 watts

More later as I get into the project.
Old 01-15-2006, 08:21 AM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Here is some general help that will give you some confidence in your choices.

[link=http://www.gregcovey.com/Glow_Conversions_Made_Easy.htm]Glow Conversions Made Easy[/link]
Old 01-16-2006, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

ORIGINAL: Madmax1965

I will be starting on the Hanger 9 Skylane conversion next week. You should not have any trouble with the conversion.

Here is my setup:
Hacker C50 13XL brushless motor
Hacker Opti-77 speed controller
Hacker motor mount.
Thunderpower 5s4p(two packs in series)Li-poly. 2,400 watts

More later as I get into the project.
Sweet! Will you be posting the details of the conversion?
I spoke top Steve Stricker last week regarding the conversion he performed back in 2003. He did say the conversion is fairly simple, but he stressed that with the Hacker motor the plane needs significant down elevator when the flaps are activated. He recommended to experiment with various elevator/flap mixtures to ensure the plane can be controlled better.

Here are some of the other questions I asked him.

> Anyway, about the Hangar 9 Cessna. I read the article on HorizonHobby.
> It was great. I want to convert the Cessna to electric as well. I had
> some general questions regarding the plane, motor, and batteries you
> used. I know it was a few years ago, so if you can't remember the
> exact details that's ok too.
>
>
> What was the flying weight? 17 Lbs.
>
> Do you feel the plane was overpowered or underpowered? I read on
> rcgroups.com that the plane was overpowered, so I want to determine if
> a smaller motor can be used. The plane was overpowered for scale
> performance however when I throttled back I could fly it 1/2 hour.

>
> The 5S4P's are 18.5v. Do you think the plane can fly with 4S4P at
> 14.8v with the same motor? Probably but I am not good at that
> kind of question. I think the folks at Hacker could better answer
> that. I will say that the plane can handle less power if that were
> the only downside.

>
> In the article you stated that you flew for approximately 30 minutes
> with 2 5S4P's. Would it be safe to assume that flying time would be
> cut in half if 1 5S4P were used? No, the voltage drop would be too
> drastic for that motor. What might work is to reduce the 3 of P. In
> other words a 10S 2P or 3P would work fine. I would want to talk with
> Hacher about an 8S (X)P pack though. The controller or the motor
> might not like that.[/b] A follow up message from Steve cleared this up after indicating the batteries are actually connected in series, not parallel.
>
> Can you recall the brushless controller you used, and its amp rating?
> It was a 70 Amp (Peak) Jeti. It had no heat sinks and my max current
> draw was only 52 Amps.

>
> How was the plane on landing approaches? Was the speed controllable,
> or difficult to slow down? That was the beauty of the plane. It
> flies EXACTLY like the real one. You will want flaps because it does
> take a little while to slow down. The landing behavior is wonderfully
> scale-like.

>
>
> Which radio did you use? I used the 10X and the 9303 but the 9
> channel is better. The flap elevator mix is better in that I slowed
> the flap servo speed down to scale transition speed and the elevator
> mix matches it. (But only on the 9 channel).

>
> Do you remember what types of servos you used (regular, micro,
> etc) for the ailerons, flaps, and elevator/rudder? Regular cheap
> servos but they performed very well due to no vibration.

>
> In general, was the plane difficult to fly? I don't intend to do
> aerobatics with it; I enjoy scale flght :-)
Then this is the plane
> for you. I have flown many scale planes but this one really flies
> like the real one. It is not difficult but it can be unforgiving of
> sloppy flying during the landing. I have seen others fly theirs and
> try to horse it around low and slow and it would bite them. It also
> needs pattern approach discipline due to the landing inertia. I fly
> UAV's and it's great for that reason to me. If the pattern looks real
> then you are in good shape, if the approach looks like its a toy then
> you are likely to get into some trouble. I have flown the electric
> and a G-26 version. The electric had a little more power but both
> "felt" the same in general. Good design. Good luck with yours!


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Old 01-16-2006, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

ORIGINAL: Greg Covey

Here is some general help that will give you some confidence in your choices.

[link=http://www.gregcovey.com/Glow_Conversions_Made_Easy.htm]Glow Conversions Made Easy[/link]
Greg,

Did you convert all those planes listed on your website to EP??!?!? Wow, that's a lot of planes!

I may need your help converting a Kyosho ZERO Fighter 40 that I have sitting in storage :-)

SAF
Old 01-18-2006, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Thanks for the post above SAFZERO very good info.

I will admit I know nothing concerning electric flight although I have flown glow and gas off and on since the 70's. So I will need to pick some grey matter from the more "electricfied" on this bb. Some Questions I have:

1. It is said you do not want to discharge your lipo batteries too low during a flight. So how do you know when they are too low? Is there a warning system to let you know?

2. Is it necessary to vent the cowling or will the opening (battery cutouts)in the bulkhead allow the air to move and exit the rear cutouts be enough to keep the batteries/motor cool?

3. I see some controllers have a setup for a program card. What is this?

4. I have read post which say you should not run the motor at full speed for long periods of time......why not? Seems to me if you have the motor in an areobatic type plane you would need full power all the time. Of course I will not need full power on the Cessna.

5. Seems to me there should be a switch which could be used to cutoff power to the lipo batteries until you are ready for a flight. I understand most batteries are connected by Deans plugs and do not use and in-line switch.

I will admit I am a cherry concerning electric flight and my questions may seem like I don't know waht I am doing......well I don't but I want to learn. Inquiring mind you know....
Old 01-18-2006, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Well I found out some of the answers.

The contoller I will be using will shut down the motor before the voltage goes too low. I can chose if I want the motor to shut completely down or throttle back to slow ...allowing me to land.

My controller can be set up by autible "beeps" or I can purchase a "programming box" from Hacker which shows readouts for setting up the controller.

Hacker reccomends you not run the motor full out even if you are flying aerobatic planes. The motor has more than enough power(if you use the correct motor/controller/batteries).....on my plane I should have no reason to run full out.
Old 01-18-2006, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Everything you need is here.
www.EspritModel.com

We have motors, ESC, motor mounts, battery packs..........

Some of the plane I have converted to EP
http://www.espritmodel.com/navmain_about.html

Here you go for motor charts:
AXI motors
http://www.espritmodel.com/accesorie...selection.html

Hacker motors
http://www.espritmodel.com/accesorie...selection.html
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Old 01-18-2006, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Hi MadMax,

I must say you got guts to convert a plane like the Hangar 9 Cessna to electric as your first EP conversion. I have never converted a plane either, but to be safe, I am not converting the Cessna as the first simply because if I make even one mistake with the battery, motor, wiring, or anything else, the plane will crash. I intend to convert smaller planes to better understand the concepts behind EP conversions, and eventually I will work my way up. That's me. Not saying you have to do the same.

Here are some answers to your questions...

You are right about the voltage cut-off. It is controlled by the controller.
The programming card controls the voltage cut-off, and other things as well like battery type (NiMh, Lithium), Prop brake, timing, and throttle response.

I don't think you need to run the Cessna under full power all the time. According to Steve, the power set up was simply too much power for the plane, and he flew with much less than full power and was airborne for 30 minutes. That's simply amazing for a plane of that size on Lipo's!

And, it's always a good idea to have a master arming switch which you would enable before pre-flight check and flying. Here is a typical set up...



Hope it helps!
SAF
Old 01-18-2006, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Be carefull above 3S or 10V you can not use BEC in your ESC for more than 3 servos.
You have to use separate voltage regulator for receiver/servos

http://www.espritmodel.com/accesories_ultimate_BEC.html




ORIGINAL: SAFZERO

Hi MadMax,

I must say you got guts to convert a plane like the Hangar 9 Cessna to electric as your first EP conversion. I have never converted a plane either, but to be safe, I am not converting the Cessna as the first simply because if I make even one mistake with the battery, motor, wiring, or anything else, the plane will crash. I intend to convert smaller planes to better understand the concepts behind EP conversions, and eventually I will work my way up. That's me. Not saying you have to do the same.

Here are some answers to your questions...

You are right about the voltage cut-off. It is controlled by the controller.
The programming card controls the voltage cut-off, and other things as well like battery type (NiMh, Lithium), Prop brake, timing, and throttle response.

I don't think you need to run the Cessna under full power all the time. According to Steve, the power set up was simply too much power for the plane, and he flew with much less than full power and was airborne for 30 minutes. That's simply amazing for a plane of that size on Lipo's!

And, it's always a good idea to have a master arming switch which you would enable before pre-flight check and flying. Here is a typical set up...



Hope it helps!
SAF
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:13 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Really? I was not aware of that? But why?

SAF
Old 01-20-2006, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

I am not worried about converting the Cessna to electric. Except for questions which baiscally cover the lil quirkes the electric set up is more simple than fooling with gas engines....cleaner too...

I have some clubs here in my town with nealy two hundred members per club and many of them fly electrics....most pattern planes. I sould be able to find most of my answers. Radio South is based here in Pensacola and they are pretty well versed in radios and electrics.

Thanks for the switch setup......no chance the swith might not handle the power of the Lipos is there? I read an article somewhere ....a flyer had found a heavy duty switch just for this job...wish I could find the article again. Course maybe someone can point me in the right direction where I could find one.
Old 01-31-2006, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Well the conversion is coming on really well. I had to wait on the batteries but I got them at a very good price....and the packs are made here in the U.S.....a plus for repairs.

The batteries will be blasted by air coming in through the Cessna cowling.......and exiting through the tail of the plane. I had to cut a hole in the rear cockpit bulkhead(the wall behind the seats) and then I cut three 3/4" X 3"' openings in the fiberlass tailcone. The hole are not that noticable because the Stab and the Rudder cover them pretty much. I don't know it I will need more cooling but will find out soon on my first run. I believe the cooling will be great. The Controller is located above and behind the motor on the motor mount so it will also get plenty of air. I am going to install a "Switch" so I can cut the battery power to the motors....easier to power up the motors and safe too. I intend to us a "blade Fuse" as is in Automobiles. You simply remove the fuse to kill the power to the motor.....re-install it to power up the motor. I am looking at one or two other ideas which pilots have suggested for a switch. Someone needs to come up with a switch setup for these hi-powered motors.

No pictures yet...but will take them later. I am taking my time and I must say this is an interesting project.
Old 02-10-2006, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Well the plane is almost done...lil stuff to do. Weight comes in @ 17-1/2 lbs. I haven't had time to work on the plane too much and no time for pictures. Tomorrow I do a motor test to see if there is any heat build up...don't believe there will be however. Love these electrics. Prop will be a 18X12E ...maybe too much but this is where I will start......test flight this weekend if the rain clears. I installed a 120 amp blade fuse system....remove the fuse and the batteries are disconnected....safety first. This means I don't need to worry about making a mistake plugging in the batteries but once on a flying day and if something happens to short or otherwise cause motor problems the fuse will blow causing the cut-off of battery power.
Old 02-10-2006, 11:37 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

ORIGINAL: SAFZERO

Really? I was not aware of that? But why?

SAF
The BEC in the typical ESC is limited to how much current it will handle. Four or more servos--especially fairly large ones like the H9 Cessna would need-- would draw more current than it can sink, and burn it up. Higher voltage packs also mean the BEC has to convert from a higher voltage down to 4.8v for the radio, resulting in a lot of heat generated, with the same result.

A plane this size doesn't need the minimal weight savings from using a BEC vs. a separate receiver battery pack. You lose the convenience of not worrying about an extra battery to charge, but you gain peace of mind.

A popular alternative to a separate rx pack in larger planes is something like a [link=http://www.koolflightsystems.com/ultimatebec.htm]UBEC[/link] . You would have to calculate what the max expected combined servo current would be for the Cessna, and make sure the UBEC can sustain that much.

Also--don't depend on the 'arming switch' on an ESC to keep the motor from starting up unexpectedly. The switch only kills power to the receiver, not the motor. You are depending on the hope that nothing goes poof (like an internal ESC short, switch wiring short, or switch failure) by trusting the switch. It's not a safe gamble, IMHO. The best failsafe for preventing the motor from self-starting is to always keep the motor battery unplugged until just before you intend to fly.

Rick
Old 02-12-2006, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Rick the blade fuse does the same as unplugging the battery.....just easier to do and also "fuses" the system....
Old 02-13-2006, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

That's true.

I just don't see many people incorporating them into their battery harnesses, however. Perhaps it's the issue of not looking all that good sticking out of a fuselage, or having to keep spare fuses, or the additional fuss of wiring in the fuse holder--I don't know. For me, it would be redundant for any of my LiPo powered planes because I always remove the battery pack from them for recharging anyway, so easy access to the battery plug is a must.

Maybe most folks just depend on the ESC to shut down from overheating if too much current is drawn--or burn itself up into an open circuit, whichever comes first. [X(] There would be an advantage to having the fuse on the motor side of the ESC, in that if the fuse opens, it won't shut down the BEC too. Having it on the battery side would kill the radio along with the motor if it blows in flight. You could avoid this by putting in a UBEC or similar device, upstream of the fuse--i.e. right across the battery plug terminals, which is the usual installation method.

Something to consider if you use the ESC's onboard BEC.

Rick
Old 02-28-2006, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: Can the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 be converted to EP?

Well this past weekend I finally flew the 182. Nice verrrry nice.
I placed the plane on the ready box up near the runway and waited until the skies were less crowded. Just about everyone came over the look at the plane and I was surprised most had never seen the Hanger 9 model. At any rate we sat around talking and finally one of the fliers ask which motor I had in the plane......A Hacker I told him......he looked surprised as he reconized the name as electric power. "That plane is electric powered"? he said.....Before he had finished speaking all the pilots had gathered round except for two which were still in the air.
Well to make a long story short the plane was a hit........and the trims were spot on the first flight. Way more power then needed but I throttled back to about 1/3rd and cruised. I did a ten minute flight and then brought it in to check the heat on the motor and batteries.........no problem. The 182 weights 16-1/2 lbs(I removed some of the battery rails to save weight) but it lands like a light weight...I nearly ran out of runway. I hit the flaps(after I landed)and the plane came to a stop near the end of the blacktop. Nice thing about Electric is you have complete control of the motor without having to handstart the thing. I really like this setup.

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