Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Hi,

After a very successful [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=550]Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 2[/link] project, I have received many e-mails from R/Cers using the same or similar power system in their own giant scale models. Even a year later, the AXI 5330 motor and Jeti 90-amp ESC are still the value frontrunners in the R/C market.

On my 20lb Edge 540, I had plenty of power for pattern aerobatics with the 3500 watt burst setup. We flew demo flights most recently at the 2005 NEAT Fair in September. Now that we've done the low cost thing to help people jump into giant scale electrics, let's double the power using two 5330 motors and get some respect from the 3D gas guys!

Since there are three ways to double the AXI motor power without using a gearbox, I will discuss them further on. My prop arrived and I wanted to display the wide dynamic range of flight that electric power systems provide. My smallest prop is a U80 (or 3x1) that is used on my 0.9oz Hangar Rat with an RFFS100 module for indoor flying. My new largest prop is an APC 26x15 e-prop available at [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/elecprop.htm]Hobby Lobby[/link].

Here are some of my target goals for this project:
[ul][*] 7000 watt burst power level[*] 22.5lb all up weight[*] 300w/lb[*] 3D performance [*] parts available from multiple vendors
[/ul]

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Hi Greg, Your Hanger 9 Edge 2 project was a real eye opener for me, I am just about finished putting together my BME 30% Yak using the Axi 5330/18 motor and Jeti 90 esc set-up. It's going to be my IMAC plane for 2006. Part 3 will be very interesting for alot of us getting into large electrics. Thanks, can't wait!!!

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

I am all ears :) I dont want to put the cart before the horse, but I assume you are going to use the twin setup that ZB posted a while back? I think the dual system could do contra rotating as well as tandem by locking down the endbell.

-Mike

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Greg-

Thanks for taking the guess work out of large electrics. I as well have the 5330/18 and am getting ready to put it in a World Models giant scale spitfire. Project all up weight to be in the 15lb range. Thanks for pushing the envelope and keep it up!

Larry

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Greg, come on, don't leave us hanging, info please!!

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Sorry, the delay is not intentional like an old series cliff-hanger. I am merely waiting for my unit to arrive from Model Motors in the Czech Republic. I want to have photos that accompany my write-up so that there is less confusion. Too much confusion already exists for this product and is the reason it was not ordered from Esprit Models. I am also working to have a vendor choice in the US for this product by early 2006.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Christmas came a few days early for me as my Dual AXI 5330 motor arrived from Hobby Lobby. The single shaft, dual 5330/20 motor is available special order from [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/index.htm]Hobby Lobby[/link] for $790. Note that the motors come bolted together to drive a single long shaft. The mounting ears make it a near drop in replacement for a single AXI 5330 setup.

The motor Kv is 235 RPM/V and it weighs 56oz (3.5lbs). The "Double 5330" is designed for aerobatic flying with about a 26" prop and around 6000RPM. The recommended max. current with a 10s LiPo is also about 70A burst per motor.

As you may be aware, my single AXI 5330 power system would burst over 100amps to provide 3500 watts for short periods. This makes my target goal around 7000 watts (or 9.3h.p.) using the dual motor.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Hi Greg, this motor weighs a little more than I thought it would, I was thinking 48 oz's. What is the whole set-up your going to use?? Keep the info coming!!!!

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Great Idea Greg. Do you think that this system would turn a smaller prop at higher RPM?

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

The added weight comes from two needed things. The large mounting ears and prop adapter. At these power levels, you need to be sure that the motor is securely mounted and supported, and, that the prop will not slip due to the extreme torque.

I will be using a [link=http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/BPHDSplashPG/index.htm]BalancePro HD[/link] system from FMA Direct. It will be a 10s setup using a 6s and a 4s pack in series. In this manner, the packs are protected at the cell level on both charge and discharge cycles. The DPM also gives you fair warning that the packs are near depletion so you can safely land without having to dead stick it. I have not decided on the pack configuration yet as FMA will be introducing new Kokam cells and new cell lines in early 2006. This will provide more choices for capacity and cost level.

One existing possibility would be a 10s2p (6.4AH) or 10s3p (9.6AH) configuration of Kokam 3.2AH cells. Another possibility is to split the packs into two seperate 10s packs, one for each motor. This has the advantage of then using the smaller 6s/4s packs on other more common size applications. I am targeting a total weight of 8lbs and total capacity around 8AH-10AH for my Lithium power supply. I'll keep you posted.

Darrell,

My 10s limitation comes from using two [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm]Jeti 90-amp[/link] ESCs for this project. If you use another ESC like the Castle Creations [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLBY4&P=7]Phoenix HV 85[/link] or 110 ESC, you can use a 12s Lithium setup. The limitation of the BalancePro HD Lithium Power system is also 12s so it is a good match.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Soon there will be Jeti controllers avalibul for 12-15s Lipo setups, been trying some prototypes now for some time and performance is very nice! mainly tested on Actro 60 motors on 10-14s setups, the biggest controller can handle 200Amp 15s Lipo ;) also the best way to power an outrunner today is with a Jeti advance controller.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Greg,
I like that prop adapter a lot. Can you tell me why it is more expensive than the [link=http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5701]Dual Cyclon unit[/link]? The Cyclon twin unit RTF is only $674.00. The AXI unit is almost $120 more.

-Mike

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Mike,

The price difference reflects that fact that it is an "apples and oranges" comparison in product quality, robustness, and features. The Double AXI comes with a heavy duty mount, heavy duty prop adapter, much thicker windings, and no timing adjustment is required. It is a bigger setup than your dual Cyclon 160.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Were speculating on quality and no time adjustment was needed on the Cylcons. The dual Cyclon in the Yak is running at 5200 watts peak now and Fabrice is running his dual in a 3m Raven at over 7k peak on 60 cells. The AXI's are rated at 70 burst and the Cyclon is rated at 100a max. I guess there could be an extra $120 in the mount and prop adapter, but I was just curious. I think we are comparing the same type of fruit, just different flavors :)

The balance pro series of batteries are just amazing. I have long been a TP fan, but am quickly converting. Lots of features on the FMA line. I look forward to your progress as always!

-Mike

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Can you post some pictures of the motor mounted in your plane? Will you be able to use the APC prop with that prop mount? Keep the info coming!!!!

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Best way is to compare the dual cyclons and dual Axi and there performance, prop-current-volt-rpm-temp-weight... non of these motors are top of the line motors that can be compared to the best from Germany in my opinion, but also... German motors are more expencive ;)

My guess is that the dual axi is more efficiency than the cyclon.

Best way to power a large aerobatic plane in my opinion is no gearbox-one motor-one ESC- one battery ;)

http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/...S/eYak55SP.htm

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Joacim,
I have followed that 55 conversion and it still amazes me. Awesome power. I think we are splitting hairs on the power systems. I have no doubt that this setup will hold it's own and power this Edge to beyond the gas equivalent. Ok, I dont want to hijack Greg's thread more than I have already, so I am going to return to spectator mode :)

-Mike

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Once again, it looks like we've captured a good deal of attention with part 3 of this conversion project. As with the first two parts that are now published on RCU, my intention is to simply broadcast what I do, and, help people make an educated choice that may save them some money.

While my wife travels for business, I get to use my living room for plane projects and storage. I figure that it's not nearly as bad as the bachelor who works on his motorcycle in the kitchen since electric-powered planes are clean and don't smell like oil or gas.

By positioning the new double AXI motor on top of my existing mount, you can see that the 4-3/8" PVC pipe assembly ( called 4" ) will still work as an inexpensive mount with a few modifications. I intend to reinforce the 4" end cap and provide air cooling for the motor inside the PVC can.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

I thought you would use aluminum tubing and bolts for your mount, I think if you use the pvc mount, you'll have problems. Thanks for the pictures, please keep the project going and I'm looking forward to more info.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

After some discussion with my friend who is both a modeler and a machinist, we have decided not to use the PVC mount due to the needed cooling holes. We have also decided not to use aluminum tubing or metal standoffs due to the tremendous rotational torque or twisting action that could focus forces in small areas.

Our approach will be a more traditional technique used in giant scale engine mounting. We'll use aircraft grade birch plywood available at most hobby shops to build a box extension that will fit over the existing motor mount box. This box will use two layers of 1/8" aircraft grade plywood epoxied together for tremendous strength. Short #10 screws will connect the motor mount ears to blind nuts on the new box front wall. The bigger box will be easier to drill cooling holes in for the inside motor and the process will be easily repeatable by others as I'll publish the exact dimensions needed for the box extension.

Stay tuned...

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Although the APC 26" prop looks ok in the spinner and prop adapter, we have decided not to use it for safety reasons. Our concern is that the prop may be severely weakened after drilling the four holes needed to mount it on the spinner.

I have decided to purchase a Mejzlik carbon 26x10 prop from [link=http://www.desertaircraft.com/page.php?Page=Mejzlik]Desert Aircraft[/link]. The carbon prop will be easier to drill and retain its strength. These props from the Czech Republic are top notch designs that have come down in price due to competition from other manufacturers.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Mejzlik's are nice and will look awesome on the front. Is the prop adapter 8mm or 10mm? The problem I have been having is finding 8mm-10mm adapters to fit the Pete Spinner's and the standard Gas Mejzliks props. I know Mejzliks have a new Carbon Fiber E series out now with 8mm holes, but I think 22" is the largest made as of today.

-Mike

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Hi,

Largest Mejzlik Eprop today is the new 26x15", new sices will arive in spring, the 26" heve been tested on a friends actro 60-200 10s setup, spinning very nice, i also now have a 26" prop i will test on some big setups.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Good to know Joacim, thanks for the info.

RE: Hangar 9 33% Edge 540 - Part 3
 

Mike,

The adapter is 12mm and tapers out to 17mm.

Joacim,

Thanks for the latest information. I'll be sticking with the normal Mejzlik carbon 26x10 prop initially as it is well tested here in the U.S.