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Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Old 10-28-2010, 08:06 AM
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Flyboy1958
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Default Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

I'm getting ready to replace my bearings on my Satio 72 and was wondering what type of bearings to go with. I see Boca and RC bearings both advertize stainless steel and ceramic. Is one prefered over the other or does it matter on the type fuel you use or what? I run Cool Power 30% heli fuel in my Saitos.
Old 10-28-2010, 09:37 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

I use regular bearings. The stainless and ceramic bearings are soft and get dings on the races very easy.
Old 10-28-2010, 09:55 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

SS. The ceramics will wear less but they are very fragile. A small incident or prop strike and they can catastrophically fail.
Old 10-28-2010, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?


ORIGINAL: Flyboy1958

I'm getting ready to replace my bearings on my Satio 72 and was wondering what type of bearings to go with. I see Boca and RC bearings both advertize stainless steel and ceramic. Is one prefered over the other or does it matter on the type fuel you use or what? I run Cool Power 30% heli fuel in my Saitos.

Use standard bearings and use castor in your fuel, and use after run oil to keep them from rusting. Ceramic are fragile and SS are softer.

Sincerely, SPACEWORM, Club Saito # 635
Old 10-28-2010, 10:59 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Ceramic and SS are not the best choice for bearings in our model engine environment. The Ceramics are fragile and the SS are soft and gall easier than chrome steal. Use high end chrome steel bearings with some kind of phenolic retainer especially in a 4 stroke where getting after run oil in there is a little more difficult than with a 2 stroke.

Denis
Old 10-28-2010, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

I can see using stainless steel bearings in a 4 cycle engine. it is difficult to get after run oil or anything down inside a 4 cycle engine to flush it out and prevent corrosion. So stainless steel is a pretty good way to go.
Ceramic bearings should be left to the performance racing folks. The RPM advantage is only slightly better.
They are a long discussion going on about them here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1328511
Old 10-28-2010, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Ijust installed a set of stainless in my buddies Saito 1.00 and they are holding up fine. It gets used hard!
Old 10-28-2010, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?


ORIGINAL: earlwb

I can see using stainless steel bearings in a 4 cycle engine. it is difficult to get after run oil or anything down inside a 4 cycle engine to flush it out and prevent corrosion. So stainless steel is a pretty good way to go.
Ceramic bearings should be left to the performance racing folks. The RPM advantage is only slightly better.
They are a long discussion going on about them here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1328511

The trouble with the stainless besides being soft is that they have a loose fit on the ball/race. A couple years back, I was rebuilding machines for faceting gemstones. One of my customers liked to use an acid to help the polish. The upper bearing on the spindle of his machine would only last a couple weeks as the acid would work it's way in and destroy the bearings. I searched and searched for a close fit in stainless and wasn't successful. I tried as couple of the best I could find and they only lasted a week or two longer than the standard ones. Loss of precision and more cost for not much in the way of working life. Regular bearings are you best choice.

Don
Old 10-28-2010, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Few of us are skilled enough to fit a Stainless or ceramic bearing gently enough to not Brinell the races and then the bearing will have a lumpy feeling.
Old 10-28-2010, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

I've had very good luck with stainless bearings, much better than stock and better than some so called "performance" bearings that have non metal cages. Ceramic...not so good luck.
Old 10-28-2010, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?


ORIGINAL: ThumbSkull

SS. The ceramics will wear less but they are very fragile. A small incident or prop strike and they can catastrophically fail.
That means the bearings move around the crankcase of my 91 and in "my" case that meant lodging between the crank throw and the case. Result: hole in case. After new case, it got stainless - no problems since.

I've also used stainless with satisfaction in my 82 &100.

Old 10-29-2010, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Hi , I just installed new bearings in my 91 , I used the Saito bearings from Horizon and everything worked out great . I ran the engine yesterday and runs perfectly , but I have a question about after-run oil . Must we use specificly " after runoil " or can marvel mystry oil or air tool oil as mentioned in the Saito manual be used and still protect the engine . Want to do whats best but a lot of pros & cons on the subject , would love to have some feed-back thanks Bob A
Old 10-29-2010, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Based on Bill Robbins Complete Saito Notes I would vote for after-run (AR) oil as it is intended to neutralize the acids and corrosives created during combustion. Air tool oil does not have a need to neutralize post combustion anything because air tools do not, uh, combust. You'll find that there's a large community that use air tool oil (I have a couple of jugs 'cause I have air tools). I also have several bottles of AR oil that I use in my RC engines.

Then there's the castor oil vs. synthetic lube. Same source - castor oil has a high film strength that stays on metal long after synthetic has run off. Big benefit for the cam lobes and tappets in a 4-stroke. I rebuilt a Saito 91 whose push rods were two very different lengths. Guessing that synthetic was used before I got my mitts on the engine.

HTH


Old 10-29-2010, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

I do not think the "after run oil" sold as such for our model use was developed for our use, as the small market would prohibit it's development costs. So likely it is either air tool oil, which a lot of people use, including myself, or automatic transmission fluid, which I also use almost interchangeably with air tool oil. I have been running nitro engines since 1953, and I have never had a rusty or seized bearing. I also use fuel with castor oil in it.

If you ever find out what "after run oil " really is please tell us.

Sincerely, SPACEWORM, Saito Club #635
Old 10-29-2010, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Am I getting old an senile or did Paul from RC-Bearings not join a past thread to say that stainless were made to be in the same "hardness range" as the standard bearings? . . . and that any difference is not significant?

Seems like everyone thinks they are "soft" but that wasn't what he said. Maybe I have lost my mind.
Old 10-29-2010, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Over here, post 65:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9442477

..
Old 10-29-2010, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?


ORIGINAL: spaceworm

I do not think the "after run oil" sold as such for our model use was developed for our use, as the small market would prohibit it's development costs.
Adding components to a lubricant to modify its characteristics is not a challenge. It doesn't take a refinery - simply a little bit of kitchen witchery and alchemy.



Old 10-29-2010, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

One of our guys has the strangest smelling planes when he first starts them He uses after run oil after each day at the field. The other day the light bulb went off. That Smell, 3 and 1 oil. You can't miss it. He said he has been using it for years with great results.

I've been buying my bearings from this seller on Ebay. usabearingsbelts I have been way more than pleased with the product, price and quick shipping. I just received a new listing notice for stainless bearings. Check out their site to see if they have your bearings. You wont be able to order by engine, but will need at least the size of the bearings, or the number. They beat Boca Bearings for priceand RCBearings hands down for quality and price.

Don.

PS, your mileage may vary.
Don
Old 10-29-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Well the problem with after run oil, is you have to get it into the bottom crankcase of the engine, just squirting some down the glow plug hole into the cylinder doesn't do anything much. Plus you have the rocker arms, valves, pushrods and camshaft area and its bearings too. So I do not see how ARO is going to be of much use in a 4 cycle engine. I still see lots of people who swore they used ARO, but their engines still rusted up on the inside.

I beleive if you are going to lay a engine up for the season or longer, you need to remove the valve cover and the backplate and flush out the engine and oil it up good on the inside. Maybe even remove the side plate for the camshaft, if it lets you flush it out some and oil it too.
But I still read of people having engines rust up during a flying season and needing repairs.

So it still means one ought to have a little castor oil at least in the fuel to help prevent corrosion. There is just something about castor oil that seemingly does wonders in this area.



Old 10-30-2010, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Here is how you get it into the crankcase, it will even come out through the front bearing but will never make it leak while running. It dissolves congealed castor overnight and will not let new castor congeal. Engines stored 10 years look brand new inside.
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Thanks for all of the feed-back on aro guys , one more question , I use 30% wildcat fuel how much castor oil should I add to a gallon , sounds like thats the best way to go , thanks again Bob A
Old 10-30-2010, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Bob, is it Premium/16% blend, Premium Extra/18% blend or 2/4 all synthetic. Thanks, Dave
Old 10-30-2010, 08:50 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Hobbsy , where do you get this product Bob A
Old 10-30-2010, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Bob, I used to get it from Sheldon's in California but they changed hands and pretty much sell only car junk. I now get it directly from Corrosion X. A single 16oz aerosol can will last well over a year if you only have a couple of engines.


www.corrosionx.com
Old 10-30-2010, 10:26 AM
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Default RE: Stainless steel or ceramic bearings for my Saito?

Hobbsy , I found out where to get the corrosionx , but how do you get into the engine , by the way thanks for all your help Bob

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