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Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Old 08-19-2011, 07:12 PM
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Altered1
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Default Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Hi all,

I have an ENYA 60X, and a problem I originally thought was air in the lines from foaming fuel.

I'm using this in an airboat, so an engine stoppage is not a drastic problem, but it's annoying...

I now think that I may have too much prop, as I have replaced all hoses, checked the tank, replaced the clunk, padded the tank more, balanced the props.... everything I can think of.

I started off running a 12x6 APC, and the engine would start fine, and warm up without any problems..... but when I spin up to full power to move off and start some fun, she stops after 15 seconds or so... Once I changed to a 11x6 APC, I managed to have it run for several minutes at full power before it stopped. Running leaner or richer does not seem to have any marked effect. The stop is abrupt - no bogging down or leaning out that I can hear. She just dies.

The engine doesn't sound to be over propped, but Igot the improvement in run time with 1' less diameter prop. Once I resize a 10x6 I was running on another engine (ASP52) I'll give that a go too.

so - has anyone experienced similar problems - am I on the right track ?

All information I find tells me this engine should be able to spin a 12x6 easily, and all day.

Thanks for any thoughts you may have

Altered1


Old 08-19-2011, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Maybe unbalanced propeller or resonance by airboat who make the fuel foaming..
Old 08-19-2011, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Thanks Motorboy
Old 08-20-2011, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Hi!
You are definitely running a too small prop if you use a 11x6 prop on your 10cc (.61) engine! Or even worse a 10x6.
A 11x6 prop is used for most sport 6,5-7,5cc (.40-.46) engines and 10x6 for 6,5cc (.40 ) engines!

If your engine stops it's because it lacks fuel, either you set it too lean, have a loose bolt somewhere, hole in the fuel tubing (no bubbles should be seen), bad fuel, wrong fuel, wrong glow plug, bad ball beraings etc.

Here is what I would do!
Use a 11x71/2,11x8, 12x6,13x4 or 13x5 prop RAM and APC is best!
Use 5-10% nitro fuel with 18-20% oil content.
Use an Enya 3 or OS 8 glow plug.
Use a 12-14oz tank, preferably with Uni-flow set up (Two clunks, one for pressure and one to the carb) or even better use a Tettra "Bubbleless tank"!
Use silencer pressure!
Never use a plastic spinner! Use an aluminium spinner or alu nut!
Old 08-20-2011, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Cheers Jaka,

I'm using FAI Fuel

Big green tick on all suggestions except the prop size. Wish list includes a bubbless tank

I'll keep trying!
Old 08-20-2011, 04:35 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?


ORIGINAL: Altered1

Hi all,

I have an ENYA 60X, and a problem I originally thought was air in the lines from foaming fuel.

I'm using this in an airboat, so an engine stoppage is not a drastic problem, but it's annoying...

I now think that I may have too much prop, as I have replaced all hoses, checked the tank, replaced the clunk, padded the tank more, balanced the props.... everything I can think of.

I started off running a 12x6 APC, and the engine would start fine, and warm up without any problems..... but when I spin up to full power to move off and start some fun, she stops after 15 seconds or so... Once I changed to a 11x6 APC, I managed to have it run for several minutes at full power before it stopped. Running leaner or richer does not seem to have any marked effect. The stop is abrupt - no bogging down or leaning out that I can hear. She just dies.

The engine doesn't sound to be over propped, but I got the improvement in run time with 1' less diameter prop. Once I resize a 10x6 I was running on another engine (ASP52) I'll give that a go too.

so - has anyone experienced similar problems - am I on the right track ?

All information I find tells me this engine should be able to spin a 12x6 easily, and all day.

Thanks for any thoughts you may have

Altered1


I have a thought - How have you been tuning the high speed on the carburetor? Tach or by ear? My ST 90 had an abrupt quitting problem that took me awhile to iron out. I had to tune that one using a pinch test when setting high speed mixture. If you havent tried it, you may want to. I think the high end is lean and its getting hot and quitting. I'd fill the tank to the very top and run the engine to WOT. Pinch the fuel line briefly (dont kill the engine) and note the rpm change. If it doesnt change at all or cuts out, richen the HSN 2-3 clicks and wait 15 seconds. Pinch again. If the rpm still doesnt go up, keep richening it by a couple clicks until you get a slight rise in rpm. Once I did this on my ST 90, it cured the problem.

You usually have to adjust the carb each time you run it, and you should adjust the carb when changing props or fuel.
Old 08-20-2011, 04:51 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?


ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
I have a thought - How have you been tuning the high speed on the carburetor? Tach or by ear? My ST 90 had an abrupt quitting problem that took me awhile to iron out. I had to tune that one using a pinch test when setting high speed mixture. If you havent tried it, you may want to. I think the high end is lean and its getting hot and quitting. I'd fill the tank to the very top and run the engine to WOT. Pinch the fuel line briefly (dont kill the engine) and note the rpm change. If it doesnt change at all or cuts out, richen the HSN 2-3 clicks and wait 15 seconds. Pinch again. If the rpm still doesnt go up, keep richening it by a couple clicks until you get a slight rise in rpm. Once I did this on my ST 90, it cured the problem.

You usually have to adjust the carb each time you run it, and you should adjust the carb when changing props or fuel.

[/quote]

I'll give anything a go! I'm going to look at redoing my engine mount anyway, as I thing vibration could still be making life hard for me. Will give the pinch test a try

Old 08-20-2011, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

I have a 60X using FAI fuel and it'll turn a 12x6 prop all day long at 11,700 revs. Just a thought, check that the breather line is clear and check the muffler nipple for carbon buildup. If the tank can't breathe properly then the engine will stop very quickly when you go full throttle. If your carb has the mid range adjuster then set it to the centre between the + and - marks.
Old 08-20-2011, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Thanks Downunder.

No midrange adjustment, But will give everything another clean.

Altered1

Old 08-20-2011, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

How old is the engine?
Old 08-20-2011, 06:08 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Hi rendegade,

it's a mk1 Enya 60 XF - it's old !  but has had new bearings and a complete stripdown and clean recently.  All parts seem to be in working order.
Old 08-21-2011, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Hi!
Your engine will be much easier to tune if you use a little nitro. 5% is all it takes to have it run better.
Old 08-21-2011, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

ORIGINAL: jaka

Hi!
Your engine will be much easier to tune if you use a little nitro. 5% is all it takes to have it run better.
My Super Tiger S90K liked FAI (true 80/20) fuel, but it started a bit easier with a little acetone added. I used 3%, but 5% probably would have been better. I did get 800rpm+ with 5% nitro vs. the FAI so performance is definitely better with a touch of nitro.

The tuning window is a bit narrower without nitro. Altered1 - are you making your own fuel or using a premixed fuel off the shelf?
Old 08-21-2011, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

ORIGINAL: Altered1
it's a mk1 Enya 60 XF - it's old !
That puts it from 1975 to about 1977. Is your engine ringed or AAC?
Old 08-21-2011, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

His engine should have the G8 carb which is more forgiving than larger ones used on newer versions. Try changing the plug and isolating the fuel system. Keep the rpm up with an 11-7 or 12-5, a little nitro will help broaden the carb mixture and add power.
Old 08-22-2011, 01:15 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Hi guys,

Thanks for your input.

To answer a few questions:  Fuel.  I source my fuel from my LHS, and they blend it to my requirements on the spot, 20 Caster, 80 Methanol.  to them, this is uncommon (they specialise in cars).  Nitro adds 20% to the purchase price for 5%! The price climbs rapidly from there.  I don't buy their off the shelf stuff, as I don't know what's in it, and it doesn't say on the bottle.    I'm not too concerned with achieving peak power just yet.

I did try a tank of 5% Nitro but I had the same problems.

The engine is non ringed, and I'm using either an ENYA #3 or an OS#8 Plug

Photo of cylinder here: http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_6258.jpg

Carb photo here (before rebuild): http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_6236.jpg

I have no problems starting the engine - first kick once primed, and the needle is very forgiving.   I don't have a tachometer (birthday wishlist), so everything is done by ear, feel and pinch.  I do have 2 needles with this engine (one 'normal' and one 'sport' - that is what it says in the ENYA papers that I got with the engine - I'm using the normal one.)

I will be redoing the engine stand to isolate the tank some more.



 

Old 08-22-2011, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

If the engine is old and on the worn out side, you may not be able to peak it out like normal. Send it out rich and see if it stops; if it does not stop lean it a little more and send it out. Repeat until it dies and back it to the last adjustment.
Old 08-22-2011, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Are you using muffler priessure with this small carb?  Check the air bleed hole to see if it is clogged.  Then check after running to see if there is fuel comming out of the air bleed hole.  I believe that on SOME Enya carbs the fuel is mixed with the air from the air bleed line.  If muffler pressure is used, or too much muffler pressure the fuel that is normally mixed with the bleed air overpowers the air bleed and will sometimes leak out of the air bleed hole.  Or just try it without muffler pressure and see what happens.
Old 08-22-2011, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

I had an airboat a long time ago and tuned it like my friend showed me, full rpm. It died every time after a few minutes. I thought the engine was very unreliable. Many years later I learned that the engine needed to be turned a little rich after peak rpms and then it was a very reliable engine. In fact I am still using the carb on another engine I have now. I think you may be a little too lean would be my first guess.
Old 08-22-2011, 11:59 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Looks like the general concensus is a too lean mix.  So I'll concentrate on the mix, and hope I can improve the vibration situation.  I'll also go over the air line from the muffler - connected and not.

Thanks for the input guys

Old 08-23-2011, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Hi!
Yeah! Too lean!
And...there is no R/C carb where air is mixed with fuel...in any special way than the usuall way: Air trough the intake hole and fuel trough the fuel intake orrifice and in yur case air through the idle hole up front at low throttle.

If the engine can not hold a steady seting att full throttle opening using 80/20 fuel and neither with 75/20/5 fuel ...it either worn out completely or have something that restrict the fuel into the carb...or screws lose which lean the fuel mixture.

Could also be a bad plug or the cylinder head lacking a head gasket...or leaking. So once again... check that the engine does not leak fuel anywhere and that the tank is not leaking. Also try the engine with more nitro fuel! A worn engine will have difficulties sucking fuel and will be very sensitive to needle settinggs! Using nitro helps the engine with a more steady fuel supplie.
Old 08-23-2011, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Altered1 and Jan,


The air-bleed carburettor this engine is equipped with is very much unlike 'normal' ones of this type...

This carburettor features fuel metering - the fuel orifice narrows as the throttle is closed, in a method similar to that of Perry carburettors.
The air-bleed adjustment is just a trim, for idle and just off it.

See photos.


Altered1, you wrote nothing about the design of your engine... Is it ringed, or AAC/ABC? Did you break it in properly? You cannot expect it to just run out-of-the-box...
Old 08-23-2011, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Altered1, you wrote nothing about the design of your engine... Is it ringed, or AAC/ABC?
He answered my question earlier by saying it's non-ringed and a photo showed the non-ringed piston. That means it's AAC (and for your info Dar, the AAC 60X has no pinch out of the box). Also it's about 35 years old so most unlikely it's never been run .
Old 08-23-2011, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?


ORIGINAL: downunder

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Altered1, you wrote nothing about the design of your engine... Is it ringed, or AAC/ABC?
He answered my question earlier by saying it's non-ringed and a photo showed the non-ringed piston. That means it's AAC (and for your info Dar, the AAC 60X has no pinch out of the box). Also it's about 35 years old so most unlikely it's never been run .
Oops, Brian.

I did not notice the 'linked photos' in post #16 .
...Or statement about the engine's age...
Old 08-24-2011, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: Too much prop stopping ENYA 60X ?

Thanks for all the input guys!  Much appreciated.  I'll take it step by step and see what I can come up with.

Question though - in my original post, I indicated that the engine ran for longer before cutting out once I fitted a smaller diameter prop.  without a carb adjustment, does this have the effect of a richer mix ?


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