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Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

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Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

Old 02-12-2017, 08:08 PM
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It would be nice to use diesel from the gas station, with some oil from a snowmobile or weedwacker, just to keep costs down. Maybe 30 to one or something. The ether bothers my wife, and seems to disappear quickly enough to screw up the ratio after a couple of weeks. I have seen one of your videos of kerosene and castor with ether only for priming. I like that. I have had trouble with diesel last time I used one, about 1974. Maybe I will try one again. I picked up a PAW .06. The waste vegetable oil is used for diesel cars mostly. I was thinking about that a while ago. There was a guy at a marijuana festival that had a diesel VW Rabbit. He used pump diesel and then used a tank switching valve from a Ford pickup truck to transfer to a one gallon container of new vegetable oil inside the car. It smelled like french fries. I wonder if it would pass emissions with no fancy catalytic convertors. He was thinking about using hemp oil, or at least that was what he said he was at the marijuana festival for. I think it is going to be legal here. I have not heard anything about it lately. Supposed to be in the spring.

Last edited by aspeed; 02-12-2017 at 08:16 PM.
Old 02-12-2017, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
It would be nice to use diesel from the gas station, with some oil from a snowmobile or weedwacker, just to keep costs down. Maybe 30 to one or something. The ether bothers my wife, and seems to disappear quickly enough to screw up the ratio after a couple of weeks. I have seen one of your videos of kerosene and castor with ether only for priming. I like that. I have had trouble with diesel last time I used one, about 1974. Maybe I will try one again. I picked up a PAW .06. The waste vegetable oil is used for diesel cars mostly. I was thinking about that a while ago. There was a guy at a marijuana festival that had a diesel VW Rabbit. He used pump diesel and then used a tank switching valve from a Ford pickup truck to transfer to a one gallon container of new vegetable oil inside the car. It smelled like french fries. I wonder if it would pass emissions with no fancy catalytic convertors. He was thinking about using hemp oil, or at least that was what he said he was at the marijuana festival for. I think it is going to be legal here. I have not heard anything about it lately. Supposed to be in the spring.

So that's what you guys been smokin'!!!

Regarding the P3 glowplug used by the GX-40, I didn't have to replace it the whole time I ran the engine. Running gas is still ridiculously cheap.
Old 02-13-2017, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
Different plug, but this came up on my screen http://www.ebay.ca/itm/like/112169702843 yikes, I'll have to take up stamp collecting or knitting for a hobby. I go through plugs as I like to jack up compression, and work down. Not creep up on it.
Same plug (P3) as sold by tower. The RP6 is sold by Tower for $11.99, USD. Someone on Ebay is a rip-off artist.

CR
Old 02-13-2017, 06:48 AM
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That $11.99 US is $16 @ the 1.37 exchange + shipping in US $ if not included. But Ya quite the rip off artist. He is from Toronto. It was typical to pay almost double the US price for a lot of things here. A few years back we were almost even, and it was OK, but historically it has been more. No I haven't been smokin nuthin. Maybe when it is legal. I have been getting my Turbo and regular plugs from Merlin. I usually talk to Al at the Toledo show. I think they are $6 or$7 US, and the regular plugs $5. I have burned out a few just on a prime. He also carries the Glow Bee stuff.
Old 02-13-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
That $11.99 US is $16 @ the 1.37 exchange + shipping in US $ if not included. But Ya quite the rip off artist. He is from Toronto. It was typical to pay almost double the US price for a lot of things here. A few years back we were almost even, and it was OK, but historically it has been more. No I haven't been smokin nuthin. Maybe when it is legal. I have been getting my Turbo and regular plugs from Merlin. I usually talk to Al at the Toledo show. I think they are $6 or$7 US, and the regular plugs $5. I have burned out a few just on a prime. He also carries the Glow Bee stuff.
i have been buying the Merlin plugs the past 2 years at the Toledo show also. I use those and some OS plugs (#8 and F). But am switching to Merlin as my OS plugs wear out.
Old 02-13-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
It would be nice to use diesel from the gas station, with some oil from a snowmobile or weedwacker, just to keep costs down. Maybe 30 to one or something. The ether bothers my wife, and seems to disappear quickly enough to screw up the ratio after a couple of weeks. I have seen one of your videos of kerosene and castor with ether only for priming. I like that. I have had trouble with diesel last time I used one, about 1974. Maybe I will try one again. I picked up a PAW .06. The waste vegetable oil is used for diesel cars mostly. I was thinking about that a while ago. There was a guy at a marijuana festival that had a diesel VW Rabbit. He used pump diesel and then used a tank switching valve from a Ford pickup truck to transfer to a one gallon container of new vegetable oil inside the car. It smelled like french fries. I wonder if it would pass emissions with no fancy catalytic convertors. He was thinking about using hemp oil, or at least that was what he said he was at the marijuana festival for. I think it is going to be legal here. I have not heard anything about it lately. Supposed to be in the spring.
That Paw .06 will run without ether. See this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfH8j_NBvRE But use 2% MEKP, resin catalyst. It comes in small, bottles for applying a drop at a time. It's really hard to screw up and get it in your eyes but the caution HAS to be there. The high ether prime would be 50/50, ether and oil. Castor is best but use any oil that will blend.


I didn’t make a video of starting the PAW without ether in the fuel, but if it’s running without ether, it’ll start without ether in the mix. In this case, I may have used a heat gun to help out with the start,,, with no ether in the fuel.

Here’s a cold start WITH ether, (note the ice cube against the cylinder), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJb7aZFMVwY and note that neither the compression, nor the needle had to be messed with for a start. Yes, final tweaking had to be done but it RAN without adjusting anything from your last run.

OK, having said all that, just to get a feel for what the PAW is capable of, let’s get it started using ether in the fuel. Make sure the tank is empty and turn out the head screw as per the instructions. Same as with the needle. Use a 1/2A starter. Apply 4 to 5 drops of prime TO THE INTAKE. Apply the starter and see what happens. If nothing at all, screw in the compression screw a quarter turn, Keep going until the prime fires off.

This technique prevents the case from loading up with prime. Because you're using a starter, most of the prime will be blown out. Keep turning the compression screw with your prime runs until you get a strong, prolonged and smooth run.

Fill your tank But DON'T choke while flipping to bring fuel up to the carb. Plug the vent line, squeeze the tank until you see fuel drops come out of the feed line and then hook it up. As we need to use neoprene, you can't tell if the fuel is just up the line, or if you've injected excess fuel into the carb. That fuel has to fill the line, but no more than that.

Now go at it with your starter. Your prime runs may be a little rough at first because your engine may have cooled off a bit. HEAT affects the optimum compression ratio. Once running, let the engine run for a half minute. Tweak the compression, either take it out or in. Now go to the needle valve and tweak. Go back to the compression screw and once more, back to the needle.



Once you get your needle and compression setting, do not touch it again. EXCEPT with drastic air temperature changes, like winter. Here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJb7aZFMVwY you can see that all it takes is multiple prime runs to heat the engine up to operating temps until it keeps running at your established settings. You may still need to tweak the compression and needle occasionally, but you don’t need to do that just to start the engine. Most diesel starting troubles come from messing with the compression and needles every time you go to start them. Not necessary if you understand what's happening. A pocket torch can help a lot.

About 1/2A starters, I’ve found them to spin too fast and too strongly. This always presents a danger when the dreaded hydraulic lock rears its ugly head. This happens too often because 1/2A’s are typically primed at the exhaust. Something to try is to rig your starter with a dropping resistor to have it run at a reduced voltage. Just a thought. My 1/2A starter uses an old, brushed motor with a gear box. With hydraulic lock, the starter just stalls.




It sounds complicated but once you do it a few times, it comes naturally.

If you decide to try fixed compression on a Norvel, you have an advantage in that you can run in the engine on glow and also get a close enough, needle valve setting.

For the Norvel .40, proceed as per above. Extract copper head shims until you get consistent prime runs. Mix can be 20% ether, 20% oil, 2% MEKP resin catalyst and the balance, kerosene. You CAN use pump diesel but with one and 5 gallon cans at hardware store outlets, it isn’t really that expensive. Ether cost depends on where you get Quickstart. John Deere is the best but most others will do.

Mileage. Diesels are inherently high mileage engines. Also, Norvels have some 25% more mileage over glow because of the superior compression seal courtesy of its unique metallurgy. Combine that and you will be in the air a long time on one tank. Here’s an example of that, comparing diesel to glow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT3CBoIL1SE Read the text,,, double the mileage as compared to glow. This test will be repeated once we get the .40 gasser going.

I have a 4 ounce tank in this plane, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuS3r-rQ9rM and I normally run the tank dry on every flight. I get up to 20 minutes or more, with even aggressive flying. While I did land and restart a few times, I never topped off the tank.

Clearly, with glow, you just buy some fuel, and go flying. But if you want to have something unique, like a Norvel on gas, you still have to mix your own fuel. Just as with diesel.

Here’s a thought, If the Enya oil is good at 3% on gas, and it blends with kerosene, that means more volatiles, more power and more mileage. The list of things to try on this project is growing.




Last edited by modelaircrafter; 02-13-2017 at 02:54 PM.
Old 02-13-2017, 02:15 PM
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Maybe this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwvYqBDsgT8 is the answer to the black goo all over your airplane. Maybe it's snake oil, but intriguing.
Old 02-13-2017, 02:53 PM
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Note that I've spent over an hour editing the post to correct errors and improve the instructions. Can't wait for summer.
Old 02-13-2017, 06:52 PM
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You should write a book. Oh, ya you already did :-) We are going to have 11 degrees C this weekend down here and all the snow is gone. Hmm.
Old 02-13-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
You should write a book. Oh, ya you already did :-) We are going to have 11 degrees C this weekend down here and all the snow is gone. Hmm.

I might go fly my plane with the AX-40 since we are talking so much about these engines.
Old 02-13-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
You should write a book. Oh, ya you already did :-) We are going to have 11 degrees C this weekend down here and all the snow is gone. Hmm.
We have at least two more months of snowfall. It's OK though, flying with skis is a blast. Cartwheeling in the snow with your plane isn't a big deal. It's the one point landings that hurt.

I like to write, yes, did three articles for Flying Models back when I first added a throttle to the VA MK1. No book though. Maybe when I'm in a nursing home.
Old 10-11-2017, 09:25 AM
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I have a question about a GX/AX-40 engine I own. It is very draggy when turned by hand. I checked and it is not from rubbing against the backplate. I suspect that it is the tight fit of the piston to cylinder. It has about 2 liters of gas mix run through it. The extreme tightness of the engine due to friction has me worried. I bench ran it as an AX-40 (glow not gas) on 15% nitro, 15% castor, 5% synthetic oil, 10x6 APC prop and I got 12000 rpms at WOT. So the performance is not bad, but the friction has me worried. Also, I found out that the backplate was slightly loose even though I had tightened it real snug before running it.

Any advice or ideas if this is a problem or just run it the way it is?
Old 10-11-2017, 02:03 PM
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12,000 sounds a bit low. They were supposed to be stronger than a lot of other motors, and that is equal to something like an LA. IDK, but maybe a bent rod? You could pull it apart, and push the piston up and down by hand to see if it is free, at least near the bottom half of the stroke. Then spin the crank to check the bearings. Then look at the rod. That is what I would do anyway. They use soft material for the rods, I guess so they don't break.
Old 10-12-2017, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
12,000 sounds a bit low. They were supposed to be stronger than a lot of other motors, and that is equal to something like an LA. IDK, but maybe a bent rod? You could pull it apart, and push the piston up and down by hand to see if it is free, at least near the bottom half of the stroke. Then spin the crank to check the bearings. Then look at the rod. That is what I would do anyway. They use soft material for the rods, I guess so they don't break.
Yep, I tested it and it looks like the conrod is bent. It is bent very little and not visible I disassembled the engine and the bearings were good with the cylinder/piston/conrod removed. The piston slid smoothly in the cylinder at the lower end of the stroke but still has good pinch at the top when detatched from the crank. The conrod rotated freely on the crankpin without the cylinder installed. But when assembled together, the friction is bad. So I ordered a new conrod and wrist pin clips from NV Engines.

Sadly, NV Engines is one of the few engine manufacturers that still sells spare parts (and glow engines).
Old 10-12-2017, 05:24 AM
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I twisted my rod on the .074 from lapping it. It was pretty squeaky at the top. I just twisted it back. I have done that with Cox .049s too. They still work. A new rod is better for sure.
Old 10-12-2017, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
I have a question about a GX/AX-40 engine I own. It is very draggy when turned by hand. I checked and it is not from rubbing against the backplate. I suspect that it is the tight fit of the piston to cylinder. It has about 2 liters of gas mix run through it. The extreme tightness of the engine due to friction has me worried. I bench ran it as an AX-40 (glow not gas) on 15% nitro, 15% castor, 5% synthetic oil, 10x6 APC prop and I got 12000 rpms at WOT. So the performance is not bad, but the friction has me worried. Also, I found out that the backplate was slightly loose even though I had tightened it real snug before running it.

Any advice or ideas if this is a problem or just run it the way it is?
I thought you gave up on these engines. I got mine back from Russia but haven't got around to retesting it yet. No guts, I guess.

CR
Old 10-12-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
I twisted my rod on the .074 from lapping it. It was pretty squeaky at the top. I just twisted it back. I have done that with Cox .049s too. They still work. A new rod is better for sure.
My engine is the 40 size, so twisting the conrod is a little harder. I could not visibly see the bend, it is that small of a twist. It bent when the crankpin sheared off.
Old 10-12-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Charley View Post
I thought you gave up on these engines. I got mine back from Russia but haven't got around to retesting it yet. No guts, I guess.

CR
I converted the two GX-40's back to AX-40's for the same reason, I don't have guts either. I hope to go back and convet them to gas after running them for a while and feel that they are broken in enough. I have been running an AX-40 for almost 10 years now without a single glitch. So, there is some hope for a GX-40 if it is tuned right to avoid bending a conrod or ripping out a crankpin.
Old 10-12-2017, 02:51 PM
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Hi there husky , have u used the one u got from me yet . I would almost be tempted with one of their glows but not the gaser based version unless something's changed . I seem to rember talk of a 60 gasser in the works sometime back .
Old 10-13-2017, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
Sadly, NV Engines is one of the few engine manufacturers that still sells spare parts (and glow engines).
They don't have all the parts for the smaller engines, and not all of the engines they used to have either, unfortunately.

Spare parts for Enya engines are still readily available, but they too do not have many engines in stock. The price is very good for spare parts though, a "true" AAC piston and liner for an Enya is about one third of the cost for an ABN set for OS (if you can find one). I guess OS went the modern "route", get the engines out and then make the profit on spare parts...
Old 04-27-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by the pope View Post
Hi there husky , have u used the one u got from me yet . I would almost be tempted with one of their glows but not the gaser based version unless something's changed . I seem to rember talk of a 60 gasser in the works sometime back .
Something is messed up with the RCU threads. I just received an email with postings in this thread. No matter.

I have repaired the 2 GX-40 engines that were "dumped" on me by replacing the crankshafts and conrod on one of them. I also replaced the head buttons to convert them back to glow. But I have not flown them, just bench run them. I have my original AX-40 flying around still. I could replace the retrofitted engines on the same plane to confirm. Maybe someday.

Meanwhile, I have been flying a Norvel BigMig 15 and an AME 15 in small planes quite a bit this past year without any problems and with good performance.

I had been eagerly waiting for the future NV 60, but not sure that is ever going to happen from the looks of things.
Old 04-27-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
Something is messed up with the RCU threads. I just received an email with postings in this thread. No matter.

I have repaired the 2 GX-40 engines that were "dumped" on me by replacing the crankshafts and conrod on one of them. I also replaced the head buttons to convert them back to glow. But I have not flown them, just bench run them. I have my original AX-40 flying around still. I could replace the retrofitted engines on the same plane to confirm. Maybe someday.

Meanwhile, I have been flying a Norvel BigMig 15 and an AME 15 in small planes quite a bit this past year without any problems and with good performance.

I had been eagerly waiting for the future NV 60, but not sure that is ever going to happen from the looks of things.
I received the same thing ever since they upgraded this site itís a piece of sh t I donít do anything here anymore you go to classified adds and good luck. I hate to say but this site is going down the crapper really fast!!!!
Old 04-28-2018, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by erieqc View Post


I received the same thing ever since they upgraded this site it’s a piece of sh t I don’t do anything here anymore you go to classified adds and good luck. I hate to say but this site is going down the crapper really fast!!!!
I've been having log in probs ever since I changed my Email address. I asked for help on that and all I got was a canned Email response telling me how to set my browser up. Never mind that I've been using this site since its inception.

CR
Old 03-28-2019, 10:26 AM
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I am looking at the AX 40 and the GX 40 and they look identical. Can anybody tell me what the difference is? Why can't I run gasoline in the AX 40?
SKuhn68
Old 03-28-2019, 10:35 AM
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The GX has a longer and more gradually tapered needle valve because the carb adjustment gets very sensitive with gas.
Also a totally different head button that increases compression and uses a hot turbo glowplug. To handle the higher pressure with gas, you need to use the special head gaskets and head lockdown screws.
That's pretty much it as far as differences. But you will also need a lot of luck and MOJO!!!

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