The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
11-28-2012, 11:39 AM
#51
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
IMO its the supercharger that tells me it is a scam. Just doesn't work with a two stroke engine.
As an example, any tuned pipe or resonant exhaust system is essentially a supercharger, as a reflected pressure wave forces fuel/air mixture back into the cylinder under positive pressure just before the exhaust port closes. Supercharging by definition is simply increasing pressure of the intake mixture above ambient pressure, increasing density so that mass of fuel/air mixture ingested into the fixed cylinder volume is increased.
It can be accomplished on the intake side of a two stroke as well.
11-28-2012, 11:54 AM
#52
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot Sorry but there is little heat involved when going straight up and straight down.
11-28-2012, 12:02 PM
#53
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Were in the document did it say this was used in a vacume? I agree it is a fake, but he could say it was used in a presurized space.
ORIGINAL: JPMacG
In vacuum the oil and fuel would boil off and contaminate the shuttle. The tubing would not sruvive the thermal environment. The little analog meters look like they are from the 1940s. I call BS.
Maybe it was produced for NASA for an experimental RC model that flew in atmosphere. Or maybe it was just some machinist's really cool hobby project.
In vacuum the oil and fuel would boil off and contaminate the shuttle. The tubing would not sruvive the thermal environment. The little analog meters look like they are from the 1940s. I call BS.
Maybe it was produced for NASA for an experimental RC model that flew in atmosphere. Or maybe it was just some machinist's really cool hobby project.
Were in the document did it say this was used in a vacume? I agree it is a fake, but he could say it was used in a presurized space.
I don't think they would run an IC engine in a pressurized volume unless they could vent the exhaust our of that volume. The muffler exahust appears to be just an open pipe.
By the way, has anyone checked to see if the ICs on the schematic were available in the 1970s?
11-28-2012, 12:05 PM
#54
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
Yes but that was a diesel with intake and possibly exhaust valve. It did not use the crankcase to push fuel air mixture up into the cylinder and the exhause valve or port was closed as the turbocharger was compressing air into the engine. With glow and gas two strokes the air from the supercharger would simply pas from the intake port and straight out the exhaust port. Furthermore the exhaust port opens before and closes after the intake port so that there is no way to compress the charge into the cylinder. With your LAV diesel two stroke this was not the case.
11-28-2012, 12:07 PM
#55
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: JPMacG
What document? All I saw was an eBay seller's description and a hand drawn electrical schematic.
I don't think they would run an IC engine in a pressurized volume unless they could vent the exhaust our of that volume. The muffler exahust appears to be just an open pipe.
By the way, has anyone checked to see if the ICs on the schematic were available in the 1970s?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Were in the document did it say this was used in a vacume? I agree it is a fake, but he could say it was used in a presurized space.
ORIGINAL: JPMacG
In vacuum the oil and fuel would boil off and contaminate the shuttle. The tubing would not sruvive the thermal environment. The little analog meters look like they are from the 1940s. I call BS.
Maybe it was produced for NASA for an experimental RC model that flew in atmosphere. Or maybe it was just some machinist's really cool hobby project.
In vacuum the oil and fuel would boil off and contaminate the shuttle. The tubing would not sruvive the thermal environment. The little analog meters look like they are from the 1940s. I call BS.
Maybe it was produced for NASA for an experimental RC model that flew in atmosphere. Or maybe it was just some machinist's really cool hobby project.
Were in the document did it say this was used in a vacume? I agree it is a fake, but he could say it was used in a presurized space.
I don't think they would run an IC engine in a pressurized volume unless they could vent the exhaust our of that volume. The muffler exahust appears to be just an open pipe.
By the way, has anyone checked to see if the ICs on the schematic were available in the 1970s?
11-28-2012, 12:20 PM
#56
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: MJD
Why can't you supercharge a two-stroke engine? It might not work with any off the shelf two stroke engine. But you can supercharge a two stroke if the timing is set up appropriately.
As an example, any tuned pipe or resonant exhaust system is essentially a supercharger, as a reflected pressure wave forces fuel/air mixture back into the cylinder under positive pressure just before the exhaust port closes. Supercharging by definition is simply increasing pressure of the intake mixture above ambient pressure, increasing density so that mass of fuel/air mixture ingested into the fixed cylinder volume is increased.
It can be accomplished on the intake side of a two stroke as well.
IMO its the supercharger that tells me it is a scam. Just doesn't work with a two stroke engine.
As an example, any tuned pipe or resonant exhaust system is essentially a supercharger, as a reflected pressure wave forces fuel/air mixture back into the cylinder under positive pressure just before the exhaust port closes. Supercharging by definition is simply increasing pressure of the intake mixture above ambient pressure, increasing density so that mass of fuel/air mixture ingested into the fixed cylinder volume is increased.
It can be accomplished on the intake side of a two stroke as well.
11-28-2012, 02:02 PM
#58
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
I seem to mind that some large 2-stroke diesels use a kind of supercharging.
The charge air is pressurised before admission to the cylinder. Buuut, these engines have fuel injectors. So, this system gives excellent scavenging, without the loss of unburnt fuel from the exhaust ports.
Alternatively, you can get a hybrid which has inlet ports, but an exhaust valve. Again, the only ones I've seen were fitted with fuel injectors.
I imagine that our engines already incorporate a degree of supercharging. I'm guessing that the charge is pressurised by the down-going piston. I've never seen any figures to support that, though.
The charge air is pressurised before admission to the cylinder. Buuut, these engines have fuel injectors. So, this system gives excellent scavenging, without the loss of unburnt fuel from the exhaust ports.
Alternatively, you can get a hybrid which has inlet ports, but an exhaust valve. Again, the only ones I've seen were fitted with fuel injectors.
I imagine that our engines already incorporate a degree of supercharging. I'm guessing that the charge is pressurised by the down-going piston. I've never seen any figures to support that, though.
11-28-2012, 02:21 PM
#59
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: 357ross
Because when the piston lowers to open the exhaust port, the ports for the incomming fuel/air charge are open at the same time, a supercharger would simply push raw air/fuel right out of the exhaust, before the piston can rise and close the 'leak'. A supercharger will only work correctly with 4 stroke engines.
ORIGINAL: MJD
Why can't you supercharge a two-stroke engine? It might not work with any off the shelf two stroke engine. But you can supercharge a two stroke if the timing is set up appropriately.
As an example, any tuned pipe or resonant exhaust system is essentially a supercharger, as a reflected pressure wave forces fuel/air mixture back into the cylinder under positive pressure just before the exhaust port closes. Supercharging by definition is simply increasing pressure of the intake mixture above ambient pressure, increasing density so that mass of fuel/air mixture ingested into the fixed cylinder volume is increased.
It can be accomplished on the intake side of a two stroke as well.
IMO its the supercharger that tells me it is a scam. Just doesn't work with a two stroke engine.
As an example, any tuned pipe or resonant exhaust system is essentially a supercharger, as a reflected pressure wave forces fuel/air mixture back into the cylinder under positive pressure just before the exhaust port closes. Supercharging by definition is simply increasing pressure of the intake mixture above ambient pressure, increasing density so that mass of fuel/air mixture ingested into the fixed cylinder volume is increased.
It can be accomplished on the intake side of a two stroke as well.
11-28-2012, 02:27 PM
#60
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
The supercharger is really for high altitude flying. It doesn't really need it down closer to sea level. The two stroke engine would have problems trying to get oxygen out of the high altitude air, so a supercharger would have the effect of making the engine think it was nearer to sea level then.
So yes they can use one on a two stroke engine for high altitudes.
I would expect that NASA made a few of these engines for flight testing a model of some kind at high altitude many years ago. They probably flew it in a large plane up high, setup the model, started the engine and chucked it out of the doors. Then flew the model around for a while for some purpose at the time. NASA used to test all sorts of things out about airplanes over the years. They had made many lifting body Free flight and RC models too. That resulted in the Space Shuttle for example. I do remember NASA doing some RC models of various Space Shuttle designs years ago. Some of those used engines too. They could have even done like Maynard had done years ago setting his high altitude record, and used a set of large binoculars and a special seat setup to fly the plane way up there too.
So yes they can use one on a two stroke engine for high altitudes.
I would expect that NASA made a few of these engines for flight testing a model of some kind at high altitude many years ago. They probably flew it in a large plane up high, setup the model, started the engine and chucked it out of the doors. Then flew the model around for a while for some purpose at the time. NASA used to test all sorts of things out about airplanes over the years. They had made many lifting body Free flight and RC models too. That resulted in the Space Shuttle for example. I do remember NASA doing some RC models of various Space Shuttle designs years ago. Some of those used engines too. They could have even done like Maynard had done years ago setting his high altitude record, and used a set of large binoculars and a special seat setup to fly the plane way up there too.
11-28-2012, 04:56 PM
#61
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
For a supercharger to work it must compress the air. It cannot do that with two ports open. The air simply goes right through with no compression. So it will not work for high altitude. You can only use it with a two stroke if the exhaust is kept closed when the air is pumped in. So the exhaust valvemust open then close before the intake valve opens. With no compression you do not have any high altitude benefit.
11-28-2012, 05:02 PM
#62
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
I have found a bunch of information pertaining to some of our Shuttles systems. Their are links at the bottom of this page to look at different areas of the space craft as well. Perhaps this will help us understand this " Contraption " better ?. Please click here for the link http://www.columbiassacrifice.com/&3_shttlovrvw.htm
Pete
Pete
11-28-2012, 05:06 PM
#63
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
A wiki on two stroke Diesel engines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_stroke_diesel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_stroke_diesel
11-28-2012, 06:03 PM
#65
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Pencils writing can be erased and smeared. NASA wanted to review all notes and writing and did not want them to erase it!
Pencils writing can be erased and smeared. NASA wanted to review all notes and writing and did not want them to erase it!
11-28-2012, 06:17 PM
#66
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
For a supercharger to work it must compress the air. It cannot do that with two ports open. The air simply goes right through with no compression. So it will not work for high altitude. You can only use it with a two stroke if the exhaust is kept closed when the air is pumped in. So the exhaust valvemust open then close before the intake valve opens. With no compression you do not have any high altitude benefit.
For a supercharger to work it must compress the air. It cannot do that with two ports open. The air simply goes right through with no compression. So it will not work for high altitude. You can only use it with a two stroke if the exhaust is kept closed when the air is pumped in. So the exhaust valvemust open then close before the intake valve opens. With no compression you do not have any high altitude benefit.
ref http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/supercharging.html#2stroke
11-28-2012, 06:49 PM
#67
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
Well, I took a look at the pictures. Seems like an elaborate job, even if it is a hoax. What irks me is that if this is truly a NASA project, they should have used American made engines.
BTW, the Fox Engines website shows a model of the Space Shuttle and it was powered by a Fox engine.
BTW, the Fox Engines website shows a model of the Space Shuttle and it was powered by a Fox engine.
)
11-28-2012, 09:14 PM
#70
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Sorry but there is little heat involved when going straight up and straight down. But the space craft would not be able to just glide back in as it would just tumble with no control. The flutter recovery did slow down the reentry and did keep the heat down, but this would not work from an orbital reentry as the temperatures would melt the materials used on Rutan's design.. Also without thrust jets there would be no stability so the flutter recovery provided a way to keep the tumbling that would happen anyway in control.
ORIGINAL: GallopingGhostler
I beg to differ. The purpose of the wings hinged as a huge flap in the upward position was to function as the spacecraft encountered the atmosphere and it did its purpose, to supply sufficient drag to keep the speed of the spaceship down so the air friction would not approach sufficient heat to damage the spacecraft. So yes, it has everything to do with re-entry. By keeping things lightweight and by keeping initial entry speed down, and creating a very inefficient aerodynamic shape allowed Burt to pull this off. So, as used in the model rocket industry, IT IS FLUTTER RECOVERY (BTDT) or whatever you want to call it.
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
The flutter recovery has nothing to do with the heat of re-entry, it has to do with the fact that the craft is hardly moving at apogee, not orbiting, and thus cannot be stable as there is very little air. They need no tiles or other insualtion because the craft is reentering at a low speed thus little or no friction heat added. It goes straight up, litterally stops or very near it, then straight down. This would not be the case if the craft is re-entering from orbit.
GallopingGHostler Burt Rutan using modern technology proved that one could enter space on a ''shoestring'', with his space attempt in what year was it? 2004? Overcame the problem of re-entry by having the space plane's wings fold like a maple leaf, using flutter recovery similar to the Estes model rockets. He didn't have expensive tiles to erode and keep the shuttle cool.
And I can definitively say that the mechanical contraption in the original posts is NOT used in any way, shape or form on the Shuttle Orbiters, backup systems or otherwise.
11-28-2012, 09:23 PM
#71
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
THIS IS THE BEST THREAD I HAVE SEEN !
Some one apparently had WAY too much spare time. That someone thought they should have been a NASA astronaut. I can't stop laughing......
Anyone who thinks this is actually from a spaceshuttle needs to head back to the bar.
OS japanese parts on the shuttle. REALLY !!!!. Here is a senario... "houston we have a flap problem, call japan for engine replacement parts "
Total BS and here is why... Our government and space programs use things called contracts. NASA would have contracted an engine maker to make a flat 4. Not this piece of ****. It would not have had OS parts on it. The end.
I have to say OS would have been a great choice thou ;-)
Some one apparently had WAY too much spare time. That someone thought they should have been a NASA astronaut. I can't stop laughing......
Anyone who thinks this is actually from a spaceshuttle needs to head back to the bar.
OS japanese parts on the shuttle. REALLY !!!!. Here is a senario... "houston we have a flap problem, call japan for engine replacement parts "
Total BS and here is why... Our government and space programs use things called contracts. NASA would have contracted an engine maker to make a flat 4. Not this piece of ****. It would not have had OS parts on it. The end.
I have to say OS would have been a great choice thou ;-)
11-29-2012, 04:53 AM
#74
RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
ablative materials
11-29-2012, 06:08 AM
#75
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RE: The Weirdest use of Glow Engines. is this for real?
I have NEVER heard of a running engine powering a control surface directly. Hydraulics existed in 1940s, they would already be using hydraulics by 1970s, heck they were already flying f-16 with computers on board and full hydraulics.
Not only is this fake, its STUPID AS HECK.
Not only is this fake, its STUPID AS HECK.