Large glow engines - are they passing away?
12-30-2013, 03:39 PM
#301
Senior Member
You don't need castor in 2 stroke engines.I have been using cool power for 12 yrs never had an issue using in abn engines,abc,and ringed.If you have a problem tuning your engine then get someone who can teach you to set up properly.If you are using castor and synthetic blend you will still cook an engine eventually if not tuned properly.Pros and everyday flyers have been using cool power for years with great success.Synthetic is the way to go keeps the engine running at optimum performance ,keeps the engine clean and you won't have to clean that old sticky gummy castor off your plane.If you are using older engines from yesteryear yes continue to use castor if newer engines go with synthetic you'll be a much happier pilot .
Engines are engines. Some castor blended with synthetics still provide better protection than anything else. There's no way around the fact that synthetics protect only to a certain temp, and then turn to ash. And, operator tuning isn't the only thing that will cause an engine to start running lean and hot.
I've used Cool Power in my Saitos exclusively W/O any problems even after years of storage.
I do have a Saito 450R3D on the bench that was destroyed through use of too much castor. It showed no signs of overheating. The valve springs were all right on spec. The insides of the engine was full of castor gum/wax that had plugged passages & the plastic button in the crank journal melted, came out & beat the bottom end all to heck.
12-30-2013, 04:09 PM
#302
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SrTelemaster150 They just don't get it ! synthetics have been around for years in model fuels .Some still have that old mind set that you need castor.Won't matter what info you give them they will never be able to digest it.
12-30-2013, 06:43 PM
#303
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Check out the sales pitch on a large glow engine on Item 956246. Why selling: Big slug. In part ad states:" just a glow fuel hog & where we are difficult to get glow fuel so this is a goner". That just about sums up the future of large glow.
12-30-2013, 07:12 PM
#304
Synthetic oils have their place. But many years ago when I was really into classic pattern planes and flying, a sales person showed up at one of the competitions and gave me a gallon of glow fuel to try out. Later after the event, I promptly destroyed two expensive .60 engines trying to use the stuff. I gave the remainder of the fuel to another guy who wanted it and he promptly destroyed a couple of engines as well, and he poured the leftover fuel out onto the ground to dispose of it. I think that at the time, the synthetic oil percentages were lower in the fuel and the engines absolutely did not like running lean even a little bit with the stuff. It was like you hear the engine is running a touch lean, cut the throttle to land and it was too late, you ruined a cylinder and piston. Many years later I took a liking to using a blend of synthetic and castor oil. Thus the best of both types of oils then. Castor oil protects the bearings from corrosion more which the synthetics don't, thus I have not needed to use after run oil or replace bearings often like some people do.
The synthetic oils everyone uses is really commercial air-conditioning HVAC oils. As such the HVAC oils were not designed for internal combustion engines, but they tend to work OK, as long as you carefully avoid a lean run. Castor oil breaks down at a much higher temperature than synthetic oil does. castor oil starts forming a varnish like substance which can still lubricate. But synthetic oil breaks down into more combustible products which burn and don't lubricate. Thus a accidental lean run can do in a engine pretty quickly then.
Now then the synthetic oils do lubricate better than castor oil does. Some other people have done studies where they can measure less wear using synthetic inside of a model engine than with castor oil. The RC helicopter people like synthetic oils as it doesn't leave as much of a oil mess on the heli (but that means it is burning up inside the engine more too, so you need to be more careful). Four stroke engines, especially YS, work better with synthetic oil as it doesn't gum up the insides like castor oil would.
Thus I decided to simply use a blend of synthetic and castor oil as a way to get the best features of both oils with my engines.
The synthetic oils everyone uses is really commercial air-conditioning HVAC oils. As such the HVAC oils were not designed for internal combustion engines, but they tend to work OK, as long as you carefully avoid a lean run. Castor oil breaks down at a much higher temperature than synthetic oil does. castor oil starts forming a varnish like substance which can still lubricate. But synthetic oil breaks down into more combustible products which burn and don't lubricate. Thus a accidental lean run can do in a engine pretty quickly then.
Now then the synthetic oils do lubricate better than castor oil does. Some other people have done studies where they can measure less wear using synthetic inside of a model engine than with castor oil. The RC helicopter people like synthetic oils as it doesn't leave as much of a oil mess on the heli (but that means it is burning up inside the engine more too, so you need to be more careful). Four stroke engines, especially YS, work better with synthetic oil as it doesn't gum up the insides like castor oil would.
Thus I decided to simply use a blend of synthetic and castor oil as a way to get the best features of both oils with my engines.
12-30-2013, 07:20 PM
#305
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Honestly, I can't see much difference between synthetic and castor. They both work well. When I blend my own fuel I use castor because it is less expensive and more readily available.
12-30-2013, 08:15 PM
#308
People didn't know how to adjust their engines properly and burned up a few because of the lack of castor that was saving their butt before 100% synthetic.
12-30-2013, 08:24 PM
#309
This is the inside of the crankcase of one of my 4-stroke engines run on exclusively 5% nitro 20% castor, no synthetic. The oil is dark brown, not black as it may appear. The oil expelled from the exhaust is the same color. The piston crown is bare aluminum with no carbon film forming even after a couple gallons and the valve train show virtually no signs of wear. Castor used to be the only oil that was ever used, in some cases using 30% or more oil content by volume. I'm cheap, so that's why I use as much thick gooey castor as I do. I never worry about rust. Yes the varnish can be a pain to get off sometimes, but I don't have to worry about my cam boxes turning to tetanus factories. Just my deal, I preach to my own choir.
12-30-2013, 08:33 PM
#310
12-31-2013, 04:25 AM
#312
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this thread had made me feel so bad about my Saito engines, I am going to pound them into a Sharps Rifle and ride off into the Texas sunset.
Last edited by cordell staker; 12-31-2013 at 04:29 AM.
12-31-2013, 07:08 AM
#313
I was told that the refrigerant oil used as synthetic oil in glow engines is commonly called PAG. Now there is a newer type of oil, Ester oil that is supposed to be better and used in other countries in glow engines that is superior to PAG and can be used in lower quantities. I have seen the newer Ester ois sold in auto parts stores, but I am not sure if/how it would work. Has anybody experimented with these?
12-31-2013, 07:29 AM
#315
Are the Ester oils more $$? It may be better, but cost more. I suppose if you use less it will cost the same and perform better. I remember the Ucon oils and am afraid to use them. They used to use it and it was a soybean oil. Smelled bad, ran too hot, and left nasty stains on the motors. I still have some I will never use. I imagine that was just the one type. There were a lot of different types on the list above. I haven't seen anything here about the methanol being more GREEN, and a renewable resource.
12-31-2013, 08:10 AM
#317
Sorry wrong link.
Try this instead.
http://www.dow.com/ucon/base/insoluble.htm
Also see page 15 of the following.
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc
Try this instead.
http://www.dow.com/ucon/base/insoluble.htm
Also see page 15 of the following.
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc
