az3d

My Feedback: (59)

Love the set up however things have changed. You could now get a dle from tower for what you would pay for that glow engine. Who cares about buying fuel in bulk when you can stop at the gas station on the way out to the field. I don't get the gas smell issue and you don't have a slimy mess after you fly. You are right though, the hobby provides a lot of different options which keeps it interesting.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

What he said..

I have broken an airplane due to [glow] engine problems. It was my fault and had nothing to do with the engine being glow or otherwise. Poor fuel system maintenance? You betcha.

I’ve always liked the old tale of the Farmer and the Traveller, and a better writer than I am could probably do a good job of turning it into something deeply meaningful for the world of modelling. But I’ll have a go (gee, wonder if I just started vacation and have time on my hands?):

George had been flying glow powered trainers and sport aircraft for several years. He was a bit of a loner, a stubborn sort who seemed to have never-ending problems with engines quitting, models acting up in flight, radio problems, etc. He had a tendency to be colorfully vocal when things weren’t going right (which was frequently), and had become a source of both amusement and bewilderment to his fellow club members. He was known for rejecting any offers of help, instead blaming his problems on the $%#&% engine, the fuel, the weather, bad batteries, and so on. Nobody at the club ever bothered offering help to Geroge anymore, as they knew their efforts would be in vain and all helpful suggestions rejected. They just carried on and let him do his thing, keeping an eye out for their own personal safety when the need arose.

On an otherwise fine flying day one weekend, he was having a particularly bad day. Nothing would go right. His engine was stubborn to start. When it did, it would quit on him during run up, or run erratically in the air. His model seemed tricky to handle as well. It swerved left and right erratically during the takeoff run, although nobody was sure if that was the pilot or the controls themselves. Once it finally lurched off the ground, it seemed to be extremely pitch sensitive and the engine threatened to quit more than once. He managed a few shaky circuits before the engine quit for good, and a hard landing and cartwheel popped the wing off and bent the gear. "^%$#^%$# thing, what a piece of crap!" he grumbled as he stormed out to the strip to retrieve his cantankerous model. Nobody said a thing, but a few shook their heads quietly to themselves.

Evidently this must have been some kind of breaking point for him. After tossing his damaged model unceremoniously into the back of his truck, he gathered up his pride and wandered over to where Bob, one of the veteran club members, was puttering with his ¼ scale model. Bob had flown many kinds of models over the years, and always seemed to have helpful advice for any club member who came to him with questions. George had observed that these days, Bob seemed to be flying larger gas powered models all the time.

So George said to him “listen, Bob, you’ve got some good lookin’ models there and they always seem to work like a champ. I’ve been thinking about switching to gas power – what do you think?”

Bob looked thoughtful for a few seconds, then asked “tell me George, what kinds of trouble do you have with these engines of yours?”.

“Well, where to begin?” said George. “They’re hard to start, they’re oily and smelly, and I can never seem to get the $^#@ things to run right. They either quit when I throttle up, or quit when I pull back the throttle, they overheat, they burn out plugs, and I’ve cracked up too many good planes with the #$^% things. I’ve had it.”

Bob pondered this statement for a sec, then replied “well, I don’t think you’re going to have any better luck with gas engines.”

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

MJD, I couldn't agree more. I have been at this gave for a long time and have spent more then a decade working a hobby shop counter. The one thing that has never changed is there are always the guys that when having issues will think that simply changing fuel source or radio brands is going to fix their problem.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I was working with my planes today and I think I plan to get rid of my last two glows and that will only leave me with one glow plane and that is my old trainer. It is a hard decision because the two glows I have left are OS 55AX and they are economical and durable when it comes glow engines.

I have one 55ax on a plane and the other on the bench. I may just look for a profile or something and put that 55ax on that to have a plane to beat around with. I would not be flying it that much and would not need much glow fuel. The only problem is every time I go back to flying a glow, I quickly put it down and go right back to my gassers. After flying gas for a couple of years now, I found that they are definitely my favorite.

Maybe that is what tells whether you are a glow person or a gas person. It could be what you lean towards flying the most.

hsukaria

I have an OS 55AX and it is a great engine. You don't have to be either a gas or a glow guy, you can be both. I would mount the 55AX engines on smaller airframes (I have mine on a Ultimate Bipe) so that you can just have those planes ready at anytime to fly without having to spend so much time loading the big gassers in your vehicle. The smaller models come in handy on the way home from work, stop at the field, fly a couple of times, then go home. The big planes, gas or glow, would be used for the weekends when you have time to deal with the logistics.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

The answer to most of their troubles can probably be found in one simple statement: "go back to the fundamentals". Which suggests that knowing the fundamentals would be a prerequisite..

Related to your time behind the counter, another might be "figure out who you should be listening to, then listen to them". I'm no saint, definitely not immune to streaks of stubbornness..

hugger-4641

My Feedback: (6)

I will probably fly glow as long as I can still get engines and fuel. I don't find them near as difficult to keep tuned and maintained as my gasoline powered weed eaters and chainsaws. Seems like I'm putting new primer bulbs on them every year these days. But my "hangar" is an upstairs room in my house, so gas is out of the question for my planes due to the smell. Even a small amount of gas spilled on shoes or clothes can stink up the whole house and make the Mrs. very unhappy. I keep electric foamies like my Parkzone T-28 for quick and ready flying, but until the day I can build a shop and "hangar" separate from the house, glow engines will have to power my large planes.

coachdavis10

Fly my big tigers on FAI for $12 a gallon.... Don't really see any difference in price but I really like the big glows so price doesn't matter to me

kochj

There have been 2-3 times where a gas engine wouldn't have had the issues that caused the damage or loss of a aircraft.

Can I get a hand vote of who believes the odds of quiting first: Gasoline, or Glow engine in a rc plane??? the Glow engine will have many more variables that effect it's ability to keep running.
I still love glow engines and most issues are user induced.

I am choosing to place a OS 1.60 Gemini twin in my h9 Tiger moth over a gas 20cc engine....
The reason: sounds great, and that plane flys very slow. It will match that engine best. A 2 stroke gasoline, will have to run Low throttle settings, and not let it get out and hustle....
Not to mention the smell of gasoline, and the not so pleasent sound emitted from the muffler.



Obviously I can't convince those that know everything there is to these things....no need to get all complicated about it...

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

We all have opinions on gas versus glow however the real issues are not being addressed. Gas engines have been around for a long time and came into vogue with the advent of larger airframes and then the escalation of the cost of glow fuel. Now bring in the cheap Asian gas engines and glow was pushed aside. The utility of a gas engine surpasses that of a glow unit and it will never change. I tried gas and if it were not for the smell of gasoline I would still be using it. All my models use either 2 or 4 stroke big block glow engines.

kochj

I will pm you.... would like to hear where you get the fuel to mix it up....
Justin.

kochj

You are right.
And Gas vs glow is a debate topic done many of times...

kochj

I must not know what I am doing then, because I have had a new os 1.20 ax piped and a st.51 piped that all directions followed to the letter (fuel,lines, filter, proper header length cut ect ect) that never ran well at low rpms...
They worked great while using stock muffler though....

I placed a dle 20cc with same header ( I have a welder) and pipe...and ran flawless....(wonder why that is?)
I honestly would like to have figured that one out, as I lost 2-planes due to those issues... apparently I don't know what I am doing....

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

When a 2 stroke glow engine does not work well at partial throttle with a pipe it's usually because the pipe is too short. Just about every tutorial I have seen on pipe timing addresses top end only. The reason why the DLE gasser worked with the same header is that it operates at a lower RPM. The return shock wave cares not what kind of fuel your running, it just has to hit at the correct time.

I had been running big gassers for the past 15 years flying IMAC with very few failures. Those were pretty early on while I was on the learning curve. 4 years ago I started running glow again when I came back to pylon racing. Very few failures there too. IMO if you aren't going to take the time to learn how to properly tune a glow engine then your not going to take the time to learn gassers either.

GerKonig

I agree, there are so many topics we can agree on: What oil is better? Is Futaba really that much better than Spectrum? Electrics are the best! :-)

Gerry

Rocketman_

My largest glow engine is the OS 1.60 two stroke, I have three of them and don't intend to quit flying them. They are totally reliable, powerful and user friendly. I also fly three YS 4-stroke engines on 30% nitro and they are reliable too, never had a dead-stick. If you let them set around for too many weeks the regulator plunger can get a little sticky but you know about it before you even take off and you clean it. My Saito 4-strokes are run on 30% nitro also.

I wonder where so many people are buying so many hard to start, difficult to adjust, unreliable glow engines? For them, understanding the gas Walbro carb may take some time.

And the cost of fuel, well, that’s just part of my entertainment budget. I wish planes and engines were cheaper too but I keep on buying.

As for gas engines, yes I do fly gas, I fly gas engines just because they exist, just because they are there and I like engines. It has nothing to do with the price of fuel or any reliability issues or any rationalizations.

Model glow engines are inherently more reliable than gas engines.
Good ole glow engines:

No finicky Walbro carburetor
No reed valves to chip
No ignition module
No radio frequency interference
No ignition battery
No ignition on-off switch
No optical ignition kill switch
No spark plug cap and wire
No Hall sensor
No adjusting the ignition timing
No mixing gas and oil
No extreme overheating
No excessive vibration
No (what else did I leave out?)

1QwkSport2.5r

Go for it. I will tell you what you want to know.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

I think that's a great choice. The more the engine sounds like a small tractor chugging through a field, the better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBlfirQVfFE

Tisoy909

My Feedback: (21)

No, they have passed away! but don't worry, there is a memorial in almost every hobby shop dedicated to them. Walls made of glow fuel cans sometimes an entire aisle, commemorating the days of gooey planes and good times. Strangely, i do miss the smell of glow fuel in the morning! Just kidding, though i'm into the big boy gasoline planes now, I will take a nitro powered P-51 with a 45 over a lipo packed plane any day, and thats not just the old school in me.

earlwb

It doesn't make sense to not use the engine, why would I waste money buying a gas engine when I already have the big glow engines to use and wear out?
I see no reason to throw away perfectly good engines to support a passing fad.
So you would not use a perfectly good engine but instead would go ahead any buy a gas engine to use instead? That seems like a big waste to me.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

We all are going to have our preferences . I run glow in my race planes only. The engines need to be rebuilt every couple of years. I need to take 6 glow plugs with me for a weekend of racing, a couple glow igniters. Everything else I fly is too big for glow to be an option. IMO my gassers are more convenient. Airplane, TX and a couple gallons of gas is all I need. I have put easily 100 flights with a gasser without having to touch anything on the engine.

hsukaria

MY thoughts exactly.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

How many modelers migrated to 72mhz when 2.4 ghz was introduced. This is the same thing but applies to engines.

hugger-4641

My Feedback: (6)

I'm one of them! Still flying mostly 72mhz and no problems. Almost everyone else went 2.4 and now I rarely have any frequency conflicts at the field these days! Only reason I even own a 2.4 radio is it came with a heli I bought!

Same with glow engines! You guys all go ahead and switch to gas or electric. I'll take ye ole glow engines and do just fine!

earlwb

Yes I can agree, if you don't have radio interference problems or channel conflicts at your flying field, there is little incentive to need to switch to 2.4ghz. But I do really like the more modern computer radios, where you can adjust and set everything imaginable though.

This is another example of things going full circle again. After World War Two ended, the old spark ignition gas engines gave way to model diesel engines, and then the diesel engines gave way to glow engines. Spark ignition gas engines almost completely died out, except for vintage and antique modeling though.

But then when giant scale became more and more popular, spark ignition gas engines started to make a comeback of sorts. But for years the gas engines were not all that good. The engines were heavy from the magneto ignition systems, had flywheels, fixed ignition timing, which made starting harder and quite painful if the engine kicked back on you. So at first gas engines didn't do all that well. Later electronic ignition systems came out, but like the mechanical points they replaced, they weren't all that reliable and still had fixed timing. It was only when electronic ignition systems started getting smarter with microprocessors and variable ignition timing and became much more small in size and weight that gas engines started becoming more popular. Of course high fuel costs also had a effect, especially in those locales where glow fuel was more expensive.

The next phase was with the gas engines getting more small in displacement sizes. We now have 6.5cc, 9cc, 10cc, 14cc, 15cc, 17cc gas engines for use with smaller planes. Of course the 6.5cc gas engine uses a glow plug still, which is great for those smaller .40 size planes. Trying to shoe horn in a extra battery and ignition unit into a .40 size plane can be quite tricky sometimes.

I think that the 6.5cc gas engine which uses a glow plug will be the next great thing to come along. I can see that type of ignition system moving up the ladder to larger and larger engines. it actually works really good too. No ignition unit with sparks that can cause radio interference, or needing a extra battery for it, plus it doesn't take up any additional space inside of the plane either. Now then Enya does sell in Japan a 30cc gas engine that uses a special oil as well as a glow plug. But Enya only sells it in Japan though. The 6.5cc gas engine and glow plugs are readily available most everywhere.

So we sort of wind up going around the circle again.