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Who is running Saito 1.80 on glow fuel ?

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Who is running Saito 1.80 on glow fuel ?

Old 03-13-2014, 07:16 AM
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funnotcrazy
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Default Who is running Saito 1.80 on glow fuel ?

Have been out of the hobby for a while. Flew all glow back in the day. Picked up a gently used Saito 1.80, it is going into a Dynaflite Super Decathlon I am finishing up. Have seen threads on converting these to gas, but not interested. I know it is a fuel HOG but I don't fly that much & don't have the time or energy to do conversion.

Just want to hear from folks using this engine on glow to give me any tips. Type of fuel, plug, prop - any experiences to help me get this bird into the air with least amount of fiddling around with engine. If it makes any difference the motor was purchased around 2002. Made a dozen or so flights. I was admiring the engine & the guy sold it to me. Oiled it up & it has been in the closet since - but I took it out on occasion & lubed it with Marvel Mystery Oil, turned the crank a few spins & put plug back in.
Old 03-13-2014, 06:26 PM
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earlwb
 
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Well, the big glow engines only consume lots of fuel at full throttle. If you aren't flying around at WOT all the time, they are not all that bad.
I am flying a big 30cc or 1.80 cu in two stroke engine with a 16 ounce fuel tank and it works out well as I don't use full throttle much at all. I do have a 1.55, a 1.50 and a 1.80 four stroke engines as well as several 1.20 four stroke engines too.

Use the Saito plug or a Fox Miracle plug but a Fox regular long plug may work fine for you too. I normally only use 5% nitro glow fuel with a blend of synthetic and castor oil.
If the engine is new, oil it up as it is likely dry inside, especially the cam box area. The instructions have you run the engine really rich and 4,000 RPMs max for at least a tank of fuel, then you gradually lean it out and run it a little harder. You may need to leave the glow plug ignitor on when it is really super rich like that too.

If the engine is used, you don't know for sure, so it is worth it to check the insides out to ensure it was really gently used and doesn't need things like new bearings, etc. I would run the engine like it was new and start breaking it in again as you don't know for sure about it.
Old 03-14-2014, 07:20 AM
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A ole flyin' buddy and I fly his modified Balsa USA Phaeton 90 with a Saito 1.80 for power...makes for a nice (impressive) combination...

We have an APC 18x6Wide on it...typically use Powermaster YS/Saito 20/20 fuel, or std. 15% nitro sport fuel (also Powermaster)
It will turn that prop over 8500 r.p.m. and runs great...O.S. type F plug...16 oz. tank will allow for at least 10 minutes of general messing about with a bunch of touch-and-go's etc. and still have a wee bit of fuel "reserve" left for comfort...

That engine was a real "fuel hog" at first...until they get broken-in they are known for that...but after leaning the carb (idle adjustment is typically excessively rich) it's not too bad, considering the power output.

Last edited by proptop; 03-14-2014 at 07:27 AM.
Old 03-14-2014, 08:20 AM
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8500 is on the low side for checking on the ground and could add another 500 rpm with a different prop. But, if he likes the way it flies then it's fine as is. Max rpm is 10,000.
Old 03-14-2014, 08:33 AM
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proptop
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I think 8500 is right about in the middle of (in between) the torque peak and the H.P. peak...seems to be happy and pulls like a tractor! (hi hobbsy)

I've seen 8600, 8700 on occasion, but we richen it up some so she doesn't go lean near the end of the tank...

Last edited by proptop; 03-14-2014 at 08:37 AM.
Old 03-14-2014, 09:25 AM
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funnotcrazy
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Hey earl - it belonged to a friend of mine and I saw the way he treated his equipment. He was a regular working guy like me (treat your stuff right & make it last) I always admired the way it pulled his big Extra 300 around & the way it sounded. I have a couple of smaller Saitos so that made me want it more. Can't wait to fire it up.

Proptop - glad to hear 10 min flights w/16 oz tank. That is what fit in my Decathlon easy. first bought a 20 oz, but it was a bit tight. 10 min flight is plenty for me. Hardly ever go full bore - except maybe for a few seconds when I get my self in a "spot"

You guys get the carb all wet & flip it backward to start? Saw that a few times when I used to belong to a club. Looked pretty easy & I don't have a starter big enough.
Old 03-14-2014, 03:37 PM
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Sounds like you got it just right then for your set up. I've seen the smaller Phaeton fly with a Saito 80.
Old 03-14-2014, 08:22 PM
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Well I normally flip start my 30cc two stroke engine in reverse to get it to start up. I do the same with the other big two stroke engines too. It works great for me. I just prime the engine good and reverse flip it and it fires right up. But I can honestly say that I haven't tried with with a big four stroke engine yet.

You can see me firing up the big glow engine here in the beginning of this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fpr-FMiAq0

Last edited by earlwb; 03-14-2014 at 08:24 PM. Reason: add more info
Old 03-15-2014, 02:50 AM
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proptop
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I have never gotten up the nerve to hand / flip start it...that 18x6W APC is a fairly heavy, and sharp (meat cleaver) prop...and while I am not afraid of it, I give it great respect!
We use a Sullivan Dynatron starter, witha lawn tractor battery in the flight box...(that box, with a full gallon of fuel is pretty heavy too)
Getting it wet and then flip starting is not something that I would want to try, but then again, maybe I'm spoiled, and always use a starter when starting 4 strokes...

blw...my buddy will be 85 in May...the Lord willing....and has never under powered anything in the 40+ years that I've known him...
The Phaeton was built by a mutual friend of ours, who went to that big flying field in the sky several years ago...our friend was known for building "robust" airplanes, so the Phaeton is no lightweight by any means...(it still has very nice characteristics, with all that wing area, and good airfoil design...gentle stall, good slow flight, and very short take-off roll! )
Old 03-15-2014, 03:57 AM
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mrbigg
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Use a chicken stick. It should start no problem flipping it backwards.
Old 03-15-2014, 07:34 AM
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I use a nice pair of heavy duty leather gloves for starting purposes. Yes some propellers are more like razor sharp knife blades. reverse flipping has your fingers on the dull more rounded side of the prop instead of the rear sharp edge. I also sort of slide the fingers off the prop when I am reverse flipping it.
Old 03-15-2014, 07:58 AM
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I'm running an FA180 on glow fuel, but it has CDI. I know you said you don't have the time or energy to do a "conversion" but just going CDI is a lot less complicated than a full gas conversion. It will take less than 1 hour W/a CH-Ignitions system.

The FA180 responds very favorably to CDI making a little more power & getting 25% better fuel economy than glow ignition W/the same 15% glow fuel. I have done comparative TESTS FOR FUEL CONSUMSION & POWER OUTPUT W/a stock FA180 GI, a stock FA180 CDI & a high compression FA180 CDI.

Starting & general user friendliness is improved dramatically & kick back is totally eliminated. Just something to consider.

THIS VIDEO shows just hown well mannerd the FA180 is W/CDI/glow fuel. This is a high compression version, but the stock FA180 W/CDI behaves just as well if not better.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 03-15-2014 at 02:14 PM.
Old 03-15-2014, 08:12 AM
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I have three of these engines and they all run great. You can even run 30% nitro if you heart desires more power. Best prop IMO is a Vess 16X8 and run it on a blend of YS 20/20 glow fuel.
Old 03-15-2014, 02:04 PM
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Proptop,I know what you mean about a l&g battery, gallon of fuel, and flight box. Thanks to SrTelemaster I've got this. First, it's much lighter than a battery. Easier to recharge. And it turns my Dynatron when other batteries wouldn't. For me it's the only way to go. They're about $65.

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Old 03-15-2014, 02:37 PM
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I only buy used engines from someone I know. Have not belonged to a club in years but remember guys starting big 4 strokes with the back flip method. Saw a video on the particulars a while back. Need to find it again.
Basically (having a decent running engine is assumed) it was just getting the carb nice & wet but not flooded with a few prop turns/choke. Turn prop in reverse to compression then back off a bit, throttle to mid range idle. Lite glow plug & give prop a quick flip and she's up & running.
Old 03-15-2014, 04:25 PM
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On glow fuel, Saitos start really easily with the backflip method, but you have to get them wet. I put my finger on the muffler outlet and forward flip until live got fuel on my finger, then attach the igniter and backflip, they usually fire first time. You don't backflip it through compression, but rather slide you chicken stick off the prop before the piston passes TDC, the fuel in the cylinder will ignite and drive the piston through TDC in the normal counterclockwise rotation, and result in engine start.
Old 03-16-2014, 04:42 PM
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Hello all,


I back flip all my four strokes and two strokes .40 and above.


But I set the propellor so that my hand is well clear before the engine hits compression.


For four strokes I rotate the engine backwards to where compression is first felt then forward a bit more than 90 degrees to where the engine naturally stops on the valve spring pressure of both valves partially open. I set the prop horizontal at this position.


To start I grip the spinner with my thumb and first two fingers and with the next one or two fingers lying on the leading edge of the prop right at the hub, a quick flick of the wrist in the reverse direction has my hand and fingers naturally falling away with the prop around vertical. The inertia carries the blades another 45 degrees or so until the engine hits compression and fires in the running direction. Safe and easy and can also be done with a chicken stick.


As others have said the engine needs to be properly primed and spinning freely for this to work.


I have seen the 'slide the stick of the blade' technique work well, but I've also seen it go wrong. When you think about it you are in contact with the blade pushing it backwards while the engine has fired and is trying to rotate the opposite way. The engine kicks the stick out of the way.


I think my way is potentially safer, but like most things it's a technique that needs learning and practise, it might not work for everyone.

Not really answering Funnotcrazy's question but I hope this helps.

Dave H

Last edited by gerryndennis; 03-16-2014 at 09:56 PM.
Old 03-16-2014, 06:11 PM
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earlwb
 
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I think the ultimate coolest way to start a glow engine is to prime it good, then set the crankshaft position so that the piston is just past top dead center, then power up the glow plug.
No prop flipping except to prime the engine. No risk to hurt the fingers, No fuss no mess, so to speak.
it is always super cool to get the knack for doing this and then doing it at the flying field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMdZb3qbv3k
Old 03-16-2014, 07:13 PM
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Earl, the light off starting method is cool, but I am need more practice with it for it to be reliable.
Old 03-17-2014, 12:25 PM
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I used to have a Golden knight 1.80 and it worked great for me!
I was using CoolPower 10%N-17% oil, fully synthetic with an 18x6 MA prop.

You can see a video of my other Saito FA-150S which is basically the same as the 180 but with a little less power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVMNLNB_j-k

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