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Four Stroke Valve Train Lubrication

Old 03-26-2014, 06:00 AM
  #26  
Hobbsy
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When I get one like yours, the two jaw will go into the bin at the dump that says, "metal."
Old 03-26-2014, 06:07 AM
  #27  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
When I get one like yours, the two jaw will go into the bin at the dump that says, "metal."
Every once in a great while you might need the 2 jaw puller
Old 03-26-2014, 06:12 AM
  #28  
Hobbsy
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Yeah, I won't actually do that, I used to have a Proto puller that was much better, but a few times over the years I've had friends borrow things permanently, I'm sure you know how that works.
Old 03-26-2014, 06:21 AM
  #29  
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How do you guys inject oil into a cowled 4-stroke? Do you use the crankase vent tube and squirt the oil through it into the crankcase and then remove the valve covers and squirt oil there? I do that at the end of flying season, but not after every flying session.
Old 03-26-2014, 07:10 AM
  #30  
blw
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Yes, and also into the glow plug hole. Hobbsy uses a canned fogger type of oil from NAPA. That gets all over the innards.
Old 03-26-2014, 07:17 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
I believe I bought it at Sears. I think it was mismarked as it was less than $20. I had an FA150 that had spent 15 years in an unheated shed & it ate the battery puller like candy. When I was looking for a puller @ Sears I snapped the bargain up.

They are usually about $60 but they sure are handy as the cage acts like a 3rd hand to keep the jaws positioned.
We used to have a moderator here that paid $100 for his at NAPA. I got my 3 jaw one at Harbor Freight and you got an every better deal on a much better puller. A sloppy 3 jaw one like mine will do the job but not as well.
Old 03-26-2014, 07:44 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by blw
Yes, and also into the glow plug hole. Hobbsy uses a canned fogger type of oil from NAPA. That gets all over the innards.
I used the fogger oils when I rebuilt car engines in the distant past. It would screw into the oil sensor hole in the engine crankase.
Old 03-26-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by blw
We used to have a moderator here that paid $100 for his at NAPA. I got my 3 jaw one at Harbor Freight and you got an every better deal on a much better puller. A sloppy 3 jaw one like mine will do the job but not as well.
Once you've used the caged type, it's hard to go back. Like I said, it's like a 3rd hand when setting up. Back the center screw all the way back & use the cage screw to get the jaws snug on what you want to pull. The puller will then be much easier to keep in place as you screw the center screw down.

I knew I was getting a "steal" as it was only a few $ more than an open type. That's one of the reasons Sears is going under. They aren't the Sears I grew up with. I used to buy my shotgun shells & hunting gear @ Sears in the south suburbs of Chicago back in the '60s. That area was a small game hunter's paradise. Cottontails, Ringneck Pheasants, doves & LOTS of waterfowl. My 1st shotgun was a Sears (High Standard) 16ga pump.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 03-26-2014 at 10:51 AM.
Old 03-26-2014, 02:24 PM
  #34  
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My first vehicle engine was an Allstate 250cc motorcycle engine on a go kart. It was an English BSA engine. Our puny Sears closed down. I did get some good deals over the years on a discounted Craftsman jigsaw, 9" bandsaw, tabletop sander, and a drill press. It's all mostly for model planes nowadays. But I never shopped for stuff there otherwise. The full sized Sears in Montgomery has an excellent lawn/tool section.

If you reload shotguns please pm me.
Old 03-26-2014, 03:16 PM
  #35  
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Barry, was it this one they called the, "twingle" if so it was made by Puch in Austria. Or was it a fourstroke 250 flathead. The engine would look like this if the flathead (picture #2)

DESCRIPTION: 1951 to 1953 INDIAN Brave - Rigid Frame - Solo Seat - Saddle Bags - Very Cool Bike - Believed to be Matching Numbers Bike. Made In England- Single Cylinder Four Cycle 250cc -
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 03-26-2014 at 03:32 PM.
Old 03-26-2014, 06:42 PM
  #36  
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The only 4 strokes I've owned are YS. I've been using them for 14 years and never had a lack of oil on the top end.

When I remove the rocker cover, there is always plenty of oil around. Even in my cdi's running 9% oil.
Old 03-27-2014, 03:00 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by w8ye
There's always a little puddle of oil in the crankcase.

If I have the valve covers off, I squirt a little oil on the rockers

Never had any trouble with the glow ones due to lack of oil.
Good posts to read and whats written above is all i do,no problems so far.

Dave i sure rode my share of beesa's back in the day and lucas electrics and wiring have a lot to answer for...i don't care how good the engine was(and they were not usually) How the japs finally spoiled us eh? even mach 3's and 4's were good!
Old 03-27-2014, 04:04 AM
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Yes sir Drac, the rocker box serves as part of the plenum system on the intake of the YS', makes for good rocker lune.

OF, I had one of those Indian Braves which were re-badged Beezers. The Lucas non electrics were well known. I wired a 6 volt battery behind the seat and ran it as a total loss system. It would run about two weeks on a charge.

Other than after run oil and its importance, I think that too much concern is shown for fourstroke lube. Having owned fourstrokes since about 1990 I've never seen a lube problem on any fourstroke. The brands have been, Enya, OS, OPS, Saito, Laser, Abitar, Conley, HiMax and RCV.
Old 03-27-2014, 05:06 AM
  #39  
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I never thought about this as a problem. I may put a dab of oil on the rockers when I adjust them, but never considered it a requirement. Even if it looks as though there is no oil, you can feel it when you wipe you finger on the parts. Rockers don't really move that much and not with a lot of stress so I don't think much oil is required.
Old 03-27-2014, 06:39 AM
  #40  
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I am no expert, but I have a few 4 stroke engines and love them all. I have been pampering them with 20% nitro and 20% oil content fuel. I have all of them installed inverted, so oil will more likely flow down to the valve rocker assembly. No problems with lubrication.
Old 03-27-2014, 07:50 AM
  #41  
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[QUOTE=Hobbsy;11769240]Barry, was it this one they called the, "twingle" if so it was made by Puch in Austria. Or was it a fourstroke 250 flathead. The engine would look like this if the flathead (picture #2)

It was this engine. I was probably 13 when my dad was building it, but after looking at the manifold pipes and crankcases it was this engine for sure. And, I don't really remember much about the right side look. It was a difficult carb to work with. I remember those problems. But, it was always called an Allstate that was rebadged from a BSA probably in error, but that doesn't make sense because if it was made in Europe it was in our garage being worked on back then and even as a kid i knew what it would have been. I found a couple of pics of BSA's with the same model Puch, so maybe it was scrounged up from one of those. I never heard that part, which isn't surprising. My dad was always bringing home engines, parts, tools, etc and telling my mother some far fetched story how they were almost free, etc. Kinda like some guys sneak in new models and engines now, rush home to get the UPS package before the wife see it, etc.

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Old 03-27-2014, 08:05 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Good posts to read and whats written above is all i do,no problems so far.

Dave i sure rode my share of beesa's back in the day and lucas electrics and wiring have a lot to answer for...i don't care how good the engine was(and they were not usually) How the japs finally spoiled us eh? even mach 3's and 4's were good!
I'm sure that if we did nothing except for set the valve lash periodically the engines wouldn't need any help from us. I'm also sure that most of us are still going to oil up something when we are in there Still, there have been a couple of reports of the top ends and cam gears being found bone dry like they had never, ever seen oil. I'm not about to dispute what those guys said they found. It just makes you wonder sometimes.

Mach 3's? Those missiles would do a wheel stand at 70 mph just by rapping the throttle a little.
Old 03-27-2014, 10:13 AM
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Get some fogging oil & lube the rockers ect. I just happen to have some.

Last edited by captinjohn; 03-29-2014 at 05:35 AM. Reason: spelling
Old 03-27-2014, 02:39 PM
  #44  
mike31
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I use absolutely nothing on the rocker assy's. Been flying 4 strokes for years and have had NO problems.
Old 03-28-2014, 02:33 AM
  #45  
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I'm sorry this is a bit off thread and will be brief.blw that pix you posted looks so like a 350 jawa with the left hand kickstarter which used to fold forward after you start the engine and doubled as the gearshift lever.The seat looks real familiar.Kawasaki mach 3's most especially the first h1a's had about 25 horsepower till you got to 4800 and then the whole world changed for you.Mach 4's(the 750) made lots more horsepower but were also much easier to ride overall.All that on rock hard skinny dunlops,wohoo brothers.The first z9 did not match the 750 two stroke re straightline performance but overall was an easier bike to live with on a long term basis,plus america is a major market for the japs and your coming epa emissions laws killed the twostroke prematurely.With the electronic engineering technology we have today re twostroke emissions can you imagine the thought of riding a lighter reborn mach 4 750 triple 200bhp street legal nice handling weapon like that?..i still think i'd do it,just not that often now.
Old 03-28-2014, 04:23 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by mike31
I use absolutely nothing on the rocker assy's. Been flying 4 strokes for years and have had NO problems.
I think the problem is the engines are coming assembled and ready to go virtually dry inside with little to no oil. There have been a number of people damaging their engines by not oiling them up before they ran them. The camshaft and cam gear area being the worst for it. Saito suggests running a new engine super rich at first, not exceeding 6000 rpms, and so rich that you may have to leave the glow plug ignitor on too. That is to get oil into the camshaft area in their engines. Unfortunately a number of people didn't read and or ignored the instructions and just took off and ran the engines hard right off the bat, which was bad of course.

Worst still are the radial engines, some people have damaged them for the same reasons in that the cam area or bottom end didn't have much if any oil in it. Then they ran the engine and had parts fail. Granted some inexpensive radials may have had other reasons for the failure. But when the engines were disassembled the camshafts look like they had galling and lack of oil damage to them.

I always suggest to people to remove the valve cover and oil the rockers, squeeze in oil into the crankcase (if you have to, remove the carb and backplate to do it). Then somehow get some oil into the cambox area on the engine. The cambox is the hardest to get some oil into it, just dribbling oil down the pushrod tubes may not work as the oil doesn't exactly easily get past the lifters very well. But it may help in anycase. Some Saito engines had a small vent hole in the cambox, I forget if the new ones have it or not, but one could use a glue syringe to squeeze in some oil into it. OS engines vary as some had a vent in the cambox others didn't, but you could remove the cambox side cover to oil it up good.

Anyway oiling up the engine good, doesn't hurt anything, as the excess gets spit out the crankcase vent anyway. But don't over do it too much though.
Old 03-28-2014, 04:36 AM
  #47  
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EW, that's one reason I like the aerosol aro, as it enters the engine it foams all over the place as the propellant exits the liquid in the form of bubbles. I still lean toward Corrosion X as being the best as the inside of the engine stays, "wet", oily wet that is. The CX and the NAPA Foggin Oil both come out through the front bearing when applied through the crankcase vent. Coming out through the front bearing has never effected the bearings ability to seal.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 03-28-2014 at 04:37 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old 03-28-2014, 05:07 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by earlwb
I think the problem is the engines are coming assembled and ready to go virtually dry inside with little to no oil. There have been a number of people damaging their engines by not oiling them up before they ran them. The camshaft and cam gear area being the worst for it. Saito suggests running a new engine super rich at first, not exceeding 6000 rpms, and so rich that you may have to leave the glow plug ignitor on too. That is to get oil into the camshaft area in their engines. Unfortunately a number of people didn't read and or ignored the instructions and just took off and ran the engines hard right off the bat, which was bad of course.

Worst still are the radial engines, some people have damaged them for the same reasons in that the cam area or bottom end didn't have much if any oil in it. Then they ran the engine and had parts fail. Granted some inexpensive radials may have had other reasons for the failure. But when the engines were disassembled the camshafts look like they had galling and lack of oil damage to them.

I always suggest to people to remove the valve cover and oil the rockers, squeeze in oil into the crankcase (if you have to, remove the carb and backplate to do it). Then somehow get some oil into the cambox area on the engine. The cambox is the hardest to get some oil into it, just dribbling oil down the pushrod tubes may not work as the oil doesn't exactly easily get past the lifters very well. But it may help in anycase. Some Saito engines had a small vent hole in the cambox, I forget if the new ones have it or not, but one could use a glue syringe to squeeze in some oil into it. OS engines vary as some had a vent in the cambox others didn't, but you could remove the cambox side cover to oil it up good.

Anyway oiling up the engine good, doesn't hurt anything, as the excess gets spit out the crankcase vent anyway. But don't over do it too much though.
I bet if more people would turn these engines back under warranty more manufactures would put some break in grease on the cam and rockers, if any are. Most automobiles must have break in grease or oil for the cam or they will wipe the lobes almost everytime.

But I thought this was about lubing the rockers on a regular basis. Other than breakin I don't think most brands need this.
Old 03-28-2014, 07:17 PM
  #49  
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Earl, it's a 4000 rpm limit. I've never had to keep the igniter on after the first minute, but have almost drowned from the fuel coming out the exhaust. You are right about needing to break them in per the manual.

OF, the first Z9 was a beautiful machine as was the Mach 3. I owned a '69 250 Samurai with the last teardrop tank. Never saw a Mach 4. What I would like is a Z1 if one were to be found. You got me on the kick start in the pic as I never saw it. The engine had been modified for a left handed shifter with knob when I remember first seeing it.
Old 03-29-2014, 04:27 AM
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Barry, my brother in Aurora, Colo. had one of these 1980 Z 1's with FI.

As to the OP's question, we've had responses from never lubing the valve train to lubing it every time they fly. I don't know what to think.
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