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OS .10 for control line?

Old 02-10-2015, 12:47 PM
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av8tor1977
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Default OS .10 for control line?

Well, I did do a search, really I did, but found nothing on the whole site. Of course it IS called "RC" Universe....

Anyway, I'll give it a try anyway and maybe someone can help. Here's the deal. I want to teach my 9 year old daughter to fly control line. (Then "R/C" too!) I have a "new in box" old model, OS .10 engine. I have numerous plans for .049 size U-control planes, but haven't found anything in the .10 size. Does anyone know of any free plans for a good .010 size trainer plane for control line flying, or in lieu of that can someone recommend a wing span and area that would be suitable? Also, what length control lines would be most appropriate?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

AV8TOR
Old 02-10-2015, 01:26 PM
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Have a look at www.outerzone.co.uk and www.hippocketaeronautics.com [you will have to register on hippocket to access the extensive plans library they have] -the UK magazine 'Aeromodeller' has a very large range of C/L plans including many .09 sized ones. From the early1960s right up until the early 2000s many of these were published as full sized pull out plans in the centre of the magazine-others (usually 049 sized) were published full size in the magazine pages itself. If you can find someone locally who has Aeromodeller in their modelling library you'll have a wealth of suitable options-from pure trainer to semi scale, to racer to combat...there IS a school of thought that believes a properly built, covered and balanced combat model makes the best possible trainer-in terms of toughness and survivability-and there are umteen plans for such models in AM. You can 'detune' the model a bit by having a forward CG and limiting elevator movement then restore it to plan settings as she gains confidence.....
For line lengths 42ft (nominal-it's actually defined more specifically for some 09 contest classes) is a commonly used length for 1.5cc

ChrisM
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:51 PM
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av8tor1977
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Thanks! Would you happen to know a good wing area for .10 size engine control line planes? I have one plan for .049 engines that we really like and I could have it blown up if I had a target wing area. I'm thinking 15% larger might work, but I'm not sure.

Thanks again,
AV8TOR
Old 02-10-2015, 02:21 PM
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I don't think you can answer this question simply, as it will depend on the layout as well as the structure-a flying wing combat model with open structure will carry a lot more area (on the power of a .10) than an all sheet 'conventional' trainer.[that being said-putting a 10 on a combat model designed for a fast racing 2.5 might well yield a docile model-the 09 sized combat models were just as manoeuvreable on the power of a 1.5 as their larger brethren-just a bit slower!] Speaking of the latter 'conventional' trainer approach-there is the perfect answer on Hippocket-the Australian 'Too Up' trainer (originally a kit by PriceRite engineering)-and specifically designed for the OS .10 (it shows one on the plan!)-the plan is downloadable from the Hippocket site. It is 900mm span and they quote the wing area as 16.24 sq dm and an overall weight of 550-600g. All sheet, conventional layout (looks a bit like a profile fuselage Goodyear racer) [personally I think it would be a bit underpowered on an OS .10.....but what would I know, I've never built or flown it!]
I do like the TOO-UP design though, as it is big enough not to be thrown about in the wind-and has enough area to glide rather than fall out of the air should the motor stop inopportunely......

ChrisM
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Last edited by ffkiwi; 02-10-2015 at 02:26 PM.
Old 02-10-2015, 02:38 PM
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av8tor1977
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Ok thanks! Lots of good info and research material you provided. Very helpful.

Thanks again,
AV8TOR
Old 02-10-2015, 03:44 PM
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Wow, that's a bit of a process to get registered at the "Hippo" site to get into the plans section, but it's worth it. Their search engine doesn't work well, but I finally found the "Two Up". I think we will go with that one. We are in Tucson, Arizona which has really high density altitudes, so the large wing area is a good thing. Hopefully the old OS .10 will fly it ok if we keep the line length reasonable. We'll see... If we really hate it, we'll just get a larger engine I guess.

Thanks again,
AV8TOR
Old 02-10-2015, 05:35 PM
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Yes registration there can be a bit covoluted-but its worth it for the resources you get access to..
A further point strikes me-we'd better establish what you mean by 'old' OS 10-there have been 4 different OS 10 models-the crossflow OS Max 10 of 1966-pictured here, the later schneurle ported OS Max 10- FSR of 1976 and the later 10 FP and 10LA models. The last three produced double the HP (~0.28BHP) of the first one (0.14BHP) [I'm quoting from published test results BTW]-if yours is that very first model, the crossflow OS Max-10 I honestly doubt it will have enough power to fly the TOO UP-but any honest .15 will-the modern sports ones though-such as the Norvel or ASP-need to rev-and that means small props-7x4 for peak power 7x5 or 7x6 for C/L. I'm not sure how that will fly a largeish trainer like this one slowly enough for those first flights-I'd see how it goes on an 8x4 first-deliberately keeping the pitch speed low.



If you're talking about any of the latter 3 schneurle ported OS 10 models then no problem I would guess, in terms of power. IIRC the 10FP and 10LA were slightly detuned compared with the 10FSR....which itself had a couple of production sub variants-the one shown is fairly early.
As long as you keep it light it should fly well-and you'll know you have something on the end of the lines-something not always achievable with the 1/2A ones-many of which seem to have difficulty maintaining line tension in use...(applies in FF as well-as you'd discover if you'd ever tried towing a small towline glider compared with a big one....!)

ChrisM
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Old 02-10-2015, 06:56 PM
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aspeed
 
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I flew a buddies Clown with an LA .10 and thought it was pretty good. He probably had .012" lines. I don't remember all the details, but was pretty pleased overall, at least compared to some of the .049 stuff I was used to.
Old 02-10-2015, 07:07 PM
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Well aspeed-that suggests that the proposed combo of OS 10 and TOO-UP might work quite well. I too was thinking along the lines of .012" being the appropriate diameter for the control lines.......length TBC but somewhere in the 40-45-ft range....

ChrisM
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:23 PM
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30" span Ringmaster Junior with 200 sq. in. wing area would work with the OS Max 10 CL on 42 feet lines. Brodak has a kit: http://brodak.com/jr-ringmaster-kit.html OS 10LA is more comparable to the later legacy cross scavenge 15's of the 1960's, more power than the OS Max 10 cross scavenge. A review of the RC version of the 1966 OS Max 10 is here: http://www.sceptreflight.net/Model%2...281966%29.html

I've got 2 of those RC versions, great sport engine and good hop up for an 049 reed valve RC, weighs only 3 oz w/o muffler. Broken in a 7x5 prop would probably be the right ticket for CL.
Old 02-10-2015, 07:23 PM
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http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4399 Frog Talisman, 28" Flite Streak clone would probably be a good match.


Last edited by GallopingGhostler; 02-10-2015 at 07:44 PM.
Old 02-11-2015, 12:44 AM
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Black Hawk Models has a lot of .049 kits and several designed for .10. Great price. Made in right in Long Beach. Friendly down home people.
Old 02-11-2015, 12:44 AM
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Black Hawk Models has a lot of .049 sized C/L kits and several designed for .10. Great price. Made in USA right in Long Beach. Friendly down home people.

Last edited by CLBetten; 02-11-2015 at 12:47 AM.
Old 02-11-2015, 05:12 AM
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A Sig Acromaster may be the ticket. It is intended for a .15 but would make a good trainer with a .10.
Old 02-11-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ffkiwi View Post
Yes registration there can be a bit covoluted-but its worth it for the resources you get access to..
A further point strikes me-we'd better establish what you mean by 'old' OS 10-there have been 4 different OS 10 models-the crossflow OS Max 10 of 1966-pictured here, the later schneurle ported OS Max 10- FSR of 1976 and the later 10 FP and 10LA models. The last three produced double the HP (~0.28BHP) of the first one (0.14BHP) [I'm quoting from published test results BTW]-if yours is that very first model, the crossflow OS Max-10 I honestly doubt it will have enough power to fly the TOO UP-but any honest .15 will-the modern sports ones though-such as the Norvel or ASP-need to rev-and that means small props-7x4 for peak power 7x5 or 7x6 for C/L. I'm not sure how that will fly a largeish trainer like this one slowly enough for those first flights-I'd see how it goes on an 8x4 first-deliberately keeping the pitch speed low.



If you're talking about any of the latter 3 schneurle ported OS 10 models then no problem I would guess, in terms of power. IIRC the 10FP and 10LA were slightly detuned compared with the 10FSR....which itself had a couple of production sub variants-the one shown is fairly early.
As long as you keep it light it should fly well-and you'll know you have something on the end of the lines-something not always achievable with the 1/2A ones-many of which seem to have difficulty maintaining line tension in use...(applies in FF as well-as you'd discover if you'd ever tried towing a small towline glider compared with a big one....!)

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Unfortunately, mine is the old crossflow OS 10 as shown in the first two pictures.

GallopingGhoster, thanks for that link. Man, I loved it when they used to do engine reviews like that. Unfortunately and sadly, electric motors and toy foam airplanes have taken over the hobby now.

Thanks for all the answers/input guys!

AV8TOR
Old 02-11-2015, 01:07 PM
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just as well I raised the issue then-in all honesty I very much doubt that the OS Max 10 will fly the TOO UP. This leaves you with the choice of either sticking with the TOO-UP (and acquiring a more suitable motor) or finding something more suitable for the OS Max 10. Powerwise it is directly comparable to a sport 1.5 diesel-and there are numerous Aeromodeller (and Model Aircraft) full size plans for 1.5cc C/L models (probably less so in the US magazine record as the 09 size was not numerically a big engine market for C/L) though there were plenty of kits marketed as 'suitable for 049-074-099...' [well make up your mind sunshine-its either underpowered on an 049 or a rocket with an 09...!]
I think under the circumstances you could scale down the TOO-UP to say 2/3 size-buy you might have to adjust wood sizes for structural and aerodynamic reasons, or revisit my initial suggestion of looking at a detuned 09 size combat model. Once again hippocket is your friend here-you can find the Challenger, Jr Satan, Kirin, Mini Bunt, Tamerlane, and Warlock-all combat designs suitable for 1.5cc/09 engines

If you opt to stay with the Too Up, then an Enya, OS Magnum Thunder Tiger or Fox 15 should be easy to pick up second hand-a Norvel or ASP 15 if you want to get exciting later on...or even one of the early Cox 15s-but you run into maintenance issues in terms of spare parts with those-glowheads, needles, carb housings etc when you have the inevitable crash during training [I'm thinking Sportsman .15, Olympic .15, TD and Medallion..........a Conquest 15 on a trainer might just be considered a bit excessive ;-) !] [Brodak does a nice 15-but its a bit pricey to go putting one in a trainer...and in any case it's set up for stunt work.....]

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'


FWIW I first flew R/C using that self same OS Max 10 R/C I posted above-back in 1974-75, in a David Boddington 'Tyro', with Mainstream Gem Digi 1+1 gear-and a tank made from an Ilford 35mm film can.....
Old 02-11-2015, 04:15 PM
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Actually, what many people don't realize is that the 1966 OS Max .10R/C is a very good upgrade for a large .049 airplane. It only weighs 3.1 ounces. The exhaust baffle restrictor plate provides a reliable idle and it can idle for extended times, then power back up smoothly. At idle to half throttle, it sounds muffled. At full throttle, it puts out the noise of an unmuffled .049 reed valve engine.

It would be good for something like Ken Willard's 39 inch (991 mm) wingspan Top Flite Schoolmaster. On mine at half throttle using a 7x4 prop, it flew very .049 like, but open it up and it scooted along quite nicely, just like a lot of larger airplanes. It would work also on Hobby Shack's 46 inch (1168 mm) wingspan The Real Thing. A 2 ounce fuel tank is all that is needed for decent flight duration.
Old 02-12-2015, 04:59 PM
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IMO the OS .10 should easily fly an Akromaster, Ringmaster Jr. or Jr. Flite Streak on .012x42' lines.

Remember the OS .10 is iron/steel and deserves a proper break-in so it can be all it can be.

George
Old 02-12-2015, 05:35 PM
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Could someone look at the "White Lightning" from "Hippo" and see what they think? That's the one I was going to build for her and use a .049 Cox engine, but though it says it is for .049, it appears a bit large. Do you think it would fly well with that old OS .10? How about if I enlarged it about 15%?

For training durability and crash repair, I really think a plank wing would be best. I know a built up, air-foiled wing flies better, but in my experience a slow, plank wing works great for training, with a proper, built up/air foiled wing making a great second plane for control line flying.

Thanks!
AV8TOR

Last edited by av8tor1977; 02-12-2015 at 05:41 PM.
Old 02-14-2015, 12:06 PM
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Anyone?

Thanks,
AV8TOR
Old 02-14-2015, 12:52 PM
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Web search netted nothing related to model planes. Not familiar with the Hippo White Lightning, do you have a web page you could point us to?
Old 02-14-2015, 01:32 PM
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Hippo I think is Hip Pocket White lightening. ca.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/cl_sport.htm is what I came up with. Looks like a good candidate with a strong motor mount. Maybe a bit of a cheek cowl for strength. The old iron pistons can shake a bit. I have an older OS .15 that keeps up with the FP and LA .15 pretty well. I would guess the .10 is similar.

Last edited by aspeed; 02-14-2015 at 01:36 PM.
Old 02-14-2015, 07:07 PM
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Default White Lightning control line plane for .049

[ATTACH]2073201[/IMG]

I come up with approximately 170 square inches of wing area. That's a good bit for a .049 size ship....

AV8TOR
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:35 PM
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It does sound a bit big for a reedy anyway. There is the Ambush for a .15.
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by av8tor1977 View Post
[ATTACH]2073201[/IMG] I come up with approximately 170 square inches of wing area. That's a good bit for a .049 size ship.... AV8TOR
For a mild reedie, yes, unless built light. This is about the size of the 1/2-A creations by I believe Dick Sarpolus for a Tee Dee / Medallion .049 engine or Norvel .049 / .061.

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2354



It should work for the OS 10R/C. Selecting a prop between 7x3, 7x4, 7x5 will determine flight speed on I'd say on a minimum of 42' lines. It will be quick. Since it is quick building, you could build it, test it. Then if not quite what you were looking for, seek really what will work for you, based on what you learned.

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