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Old 11-16-2018, 02:34 PM
  #51  
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Once again, I have not tried it, but would guess if tuned, it would always be an improvement over any muffler. A Jett muffler or even a Mousse ca muffler would help. A real pipe needs to be very rich at full throttle, or there will be overheating, which can be hard on the nickel plating. The exhaust port is low at maybe 150 degrees? Any motor pretty much should be around 180 degrees for the full pipe effect. Grinding or machining the exhaust port with nickel plating is flirting with trouble. I took out the baffle in mine and opened the exhaust hole to the next drill size. I never run mine at full throttle because things start shaking and any tight turns and rolls would likely break the ancient Twist, and I kind of like it.
Old 11-16-2018, 04:19 PM
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I wouldn’t run an OS very hard. They are not designed to take abuse. Their liners are too fragile IMO. Put a real chrome liner in it and then go to town. Really though, they’re sport engines with modest (at best) timing. Not worth the effort of a tuned exhaust IMO. Get a SuperTigre and put a thinned spraybar in it and run a tuned exhaust. Then WATCH OUT.
Old 11-16-2018, 06:29 PM
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aspeed,,

I have complained before about my 61FX new front bearing leaking, I believe it was on RCU's "extreme speed page", a few people pointed out that it was ok for the bearing to leak, I pointed out it didn't leak for the first 15 years,, then Baxter replied saying if the 61FX front bearing leaked then there is something wrong with the engine.. I did clean it well when I replaced the bearings, but when I started it the exhaust was very dark as some new engines can be, I'm betting it just needs to be cleaned again, cause as I said it went threw 2 tanks before it started leaking, maybe I will take it apart this coming week

Jim
Old 11-16-2018, 08:34 PM
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Jim, as stated previously the odds are the leaking is caused by the case being worn between the front and rear bearings. The lubrication film in this area between the case and crank is what provides the seal. If the gap between the two has been opened up the seal is lost. I suspect that it did not leak initially with the new bearings being due to the grease the new bearing was packed in was providing the seal. The black exhaust film could have been a result of that grease mixing with the fuel as it was being washed out of the bearing. Now that the bearing is free of its grease packing, fuel is able to pass through it. Keep in mind that unless the bearing has a black rubber seal, what most guys refer to a seal on the bearing is more of a dirt shield that will let liquids pass.
Old 11-16-2018, 10:56 PM
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I understand that, and there is/was no roller bearing grease in my engine, I wouldn't allow roller bearing grease in any engine that I rebuilt, nothing ever rubbed inside the case to wear it, I will take it apart again tomorrow

Jim
Old 11-17-2018, 06:43 AM
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Jim, did you flush out the front bearing prior to installing it? Did it come with shields on both sides? When bearings get loose it allows some movement of the crankshaft that can rub on the nose of the case. This is what would/could cause that wear. The only way to know that it did not happen would have been to take measurements.
Old 11-17-2018, 11:43 AM
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The lubrication film in this area between the case and crank is what provides the seal
my 61FX has the Slot in the case just behind the front bearing as Baxter pointed out, this is were the case seals, I pulled the crank and the crank and case look good, no marks and no noticeable wear, the crank had the normal dark spots on it from fuel so I cleaned them off, but> the gallery that runs from the Carb Port to the Slot had a tiny bit of debris in it, and the Slot did not have a lot of oil in it, so I am now wondering if the Slot did not have enough oil in it to seal the engine.
I will put it back together but I wont run it till the spring,

yes I clean my bearings well before installing them with CRC brake cleaner, oil them too,, I would bet the front bearing had 2 shields, if it did I removed one, it's been a while and I can't remember.

When bearings get loose it allows some movement of the crankshaft that can rub on the nose of the case..
I would think that if the crank rubbed on the case you would see where it rubbed, besides that the new bearings are tighter than the old ones (well they should be anyways) and yet while the old one was ugly it didn't leak, I'm thinking that the Gallery became plugged on that 2nd tank and the Slot didn't get enough oil to seal the engine

Jim
Old 11-17-2018, 02:13 PM
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The galley doesn't hold oil to seal it. It allows the negative pressure from the intake to suck the oil back into the crankcase so it doesn't run out the front bearing.
Old 11-19-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by aspeed View Post
The galley doesn't hold oil to seal it. It allows the negative pressure from the intake to suck the oil back into the crankcase so it doesn't run out the front bearing.
then maybe that was the problem cause there was some debris in that gallery, so more oil could have been feed to the slot than what was returning back to the case

The galley doesn't hold oil to seal it.
I figured the gallery also feed the slot

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 11-19-2018 at 12:33 PM.
Old 11-19-2018, 01:47 PM
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Some motors don't have the slot but drill a small hole from behind the front bearing to the intake hole just under the carb. It doesn't hold any oil in the crank/shaft area for lube. There is enough there normally. I have a Magnum made by Thunder Tiger that was a bit tight in the crankshaft/case area that would overheat and just did not run right. I felt the bottom of the case and it was hot. Not just warm. A bit of polishing on the crank just ahead of the rear bearing and all is well. The tolerance in this area is fairly critical it seems. That slot seems to be insurance in case the tolerance is too big.
Old 11-19-2018, 02:45 PM
  #61  
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Default O.S. engine liners weak?

Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r View Post
I wouldn’t run an OS very hard. They are not designed to take abuse. Their liners are too fragile IMO. Put a real chrome liner in it and then go to town. Really though, they’re sport engines with modest (at best) timing. Not worth the effort of a tuned exhaust IMO. Get a SuperTigre and put a thinned spraybar in it and run a tuned exhaust. Then WATCH OUT.
I would have take exception and disagree with you if you're referring to all O.S. engines.
I have personally only used pipes on O.S. 46sf ABC's.
None others.
But I have been using these (O.S. 46sf ABC) engines for years with pipes and have never had one, not one that I have personally used in my planes, have a liner issue
My very first 46sf ABC, which stands for Aluminum, brass, CHROME, Has been a regular flyer since I bought it new in 1989.
. And it's still a regular flyer! Sure, I have had to rebuild it numerous times, but only to replace worn out bearings .
After a rebuild, they're like brand new again.
I really believe that this one of the best engines O.S. ever produced!
I now own 11 of them. And of these 11 engines,
I have only one of these that has a liner problem, and it is an engine that I recently purchased used. I have never started this one yet.
I noticed the problem during the break down.
I normally always overhaul a recently purchased used engine just to make sure everything thing is good.
This particular engine had obviously ingested something,
as the damage was gouging, not peeling.
As far as Super Tiger engines, I have stayed away from them, as most of the people that I know who used them, seemed to be replacing them often.

Last edited by Multi-Engine Guy; 11-19-2018 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Misspelling
Old 11-19-2018, 04:30 PM
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I don't think there are any perfect engines. I would not hesitate using a pipe on any motor, even an OS. I get all of mine for about $20 and don't care. I would not mill the top of the exhaust port so the pipe works better though. I don't like to do it on a chromed liner either but would not worry about as much. There is a good chance that while you may think your SF says ABC, that it is nickel. There was a lawsuit, and they had to change that. You can tell if it is chrome by the outside of the liner. If it shows the brass colour, it is chrome. Nickel is plated all over. Oh ya, I just picked up an AX .46 for $25, (small scratch in liner :-( aww ) and an FP .15 for less than that. I am sure they will be fine. Picked up a couple pipes too. One will fit on the AX. Testing will be a while. It is hovering around freezing now.

Last edited by aspeed; 11-19-2018 at 04:38 PM.
Old 11-19-2018, 05:57 PM
  #63  
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In my area we had a class of pylon racing that allowed up to a .46 two stroke with any aftermarket muffler. Most guys ran with a OS .46 FX or AX and ran the Jett or Nelson type tuned mufflers. With a 9.5x7 most were in the 16,000 to 16,500 range on 15% nitro. I would call that pretty respectable. However most engines did not last an entire season. Myself I went the expensive route and ran a Rossi .45 with a Nelson tuned muffler. With an APC 9x7.5 I would usually get around 17,200.
Old 11-19-2018, 06:03 PM
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Supertiger, I haven't run very many of them to be honest. In 1980 I had a Mach 1 with an X.60 that ran really well and I had flown a couple helicopters with the .34 but that is about all. That may change, I recently won an eBay auction for a Jett tuned muffler for .60 size and am currently the high bidder for a NIB .60 ABC. I'm thinking that will be a great combo for a Wolfgang Matt Saphire that I have tucked away.
Old 11-19-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
In my area we had a class of pylon racing that allowed up to a .46 two stroke with any aftermarket muffler. Most guys ran with a OS .46 FX or AX and ran the Jett or Nelson type tuned mufflers. With a 9.5x7 most were in the 16,000 to 16,500 range on 15% nitro. I would call that pretty respectable. However most engines did not last an entire season. Myself I went the expensive route and ran a Rossi .45 with a Nelson tuned muffler. With an APC 9x7.5 I would usually get around 17,200.

so you won a lot ??

Jim
Old 11-19-2018, 06:42 PM
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Enough LOL.
Old 11-19-2018, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post

enough lol.
dude!!!!
Old 11-19-2018, 08:13 PM
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Default No perfect engines

Well, I will agree with that. As far as the early Sf abc series, pretty sure the early ones were chrome.
But whatever the alloy was that was used, it worked well.
In fact perhaps too well. As I had stated earlier, most of my O.S. 46sf ABC's have been flying for decades.
And are still running Strong with no noticeable loss of compression. Believe it or not, struth.
All I have ever changed out during an overhaul on these engines has been the worn out bearings, o-rings and gaskets.
I also use these non piped as well , lately with Bison mufflers. And they work great.
So, could it be that O.S. decided that maybe making bullet proof engines that can last forever, wasn't actually in their best interest and changed the makeup of the alloy?
Or perhaps the original alloy combination was too expensive and switched to nickel?
I'll bet some of my engines are as old or older than some of you.

Last edited by Multi-Engine Guy; 11-19-2018 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Misspelling
Old 11-19-2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Multi-Engine Guy View Post
Well, I will agree with that. As far as the early Sf abc series, pretty sure the early ones were chrome.
But whatever the alloy was that was used, it worked well.
In fact perhaps too well. As I had stated earlier, most of my O.S. 46sf ABC's have been flying for decades.
And are still running Strong with no noticeable loss of compression. Believe it or not, struth.
All I have ever changed out during an overhaul on these engines has been the worn out bearings, o-rings and gaskets.
I also use these non piped as well , lately with Bison mufflers. And they work great.
So, could it be that O.S. decided that maybe making bullet proof engines that can last forever, wasn't actually in their best interest and changed the makeup of the alloy?
Or perhaps the original alloy combination was too expensive and switched to nickel?
I'll bet some of my engines are as old or older than some of you.
ever have a last generation HP 61 Gold Cup, front or rear carb (black finish), I bought the Rear Induction 61 from Randi and it seams really nice but I have not run it yet, I know some good pilots from NJ that bought the front carb HP 61 GP model from Randi and they love them.

Jim
Old 11-19-2018, 08:43 PM
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Default Rossi engines

Ok, I don't want to go on about my O.S. two strokes, reliable these particular engines are, but as far as power, they've had their butt's kicked by other engines, that they just couldn't keep up with.
Two examples using the same type of airplane (Patriot 40's with retracts) but slightly different displacements.
My Patriot was of course being powered with a tuned pipe system from Mac's.
Example 1- my patriot against another patriot that was using (this was in 1997, so don't shoot me if don't get all the details right) a Rossi .45 also with a Mac's tuned system.
Even though everything seemed to be working perfectly, with the pipe coming on like its supposed to, I just couldn't keep up when we were flying level. For some reason though, I out performed the Rossi Patriot in the vertical.
2nd example, a Webra speed .50 with a Dubb Jett looking pipe, but it wasn't a Jett. Might have been an Ultrathrust muffler.
We were closer in level flight and turns but he was always slowly pulling away from me, but we were closer in the vertical.
Although mine always fell off first, with my friends soon after. But to be fair to my 46sf, the pipe was not coming on most of the time during this flight, and my friend went home before I had a chance to re-tune the pipe. If it had, I might have able to keep up a little better, but I'm not sure how much, but it would have been at least a little closer maybe.
Just missed out a on a Webra Speed 50.
Wouldn't mind picking up Rossi 45 through 50 either.
They are on my radar.
But my 46sf's have the reliability/longevity factor, so at least I have that going from me.
Man, all this talk about two stroke engines, when I am really a four stroke engine guy!

Last edited by Multi-Engine Guy; 11-19-2018 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Misspelling
Old 11-19-2018, 08:50 PM
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Prior to the OS FX series I had never heard of liners with plating peeling. Prior to that my experience with OS ABC type engines were the .40 FSR ABC that I used in Q500 racing, .25 VFR that was in a helicopter, .61 SFHP ABC in a helicopter and .61 SFN ABC. I'm fairly certain that none of these engines were true ABC and I ran them hard. I have a hunch that OS for whatever reason changed their plating process and had some issues. Myself these days I prefer engines with true ABC construction.
Old 11-19-2018, 08:56 PM
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I do have to agree that the .46 SF is a fine engine. I flew the crap out of one when I worked for Century Helicopters. This was the ringed version and it just never skipped a beat and again, it was flown hard.
Old 11-19-2018, 09:01 PM
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Default Which engines are truly ABC these days?

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Prior to the OS FX series I had never heard of liners with plating peeling. Prior to that my experience with OS ABC type engines were the .40 FSR ABC that I used in Q500 racing, .25 VFR that was in a helicopter, .61 SFHP ABC in a helicopter and .61 SFN ABC. I'm fairly certain that none of these engines were true ABC and I ran them hard. I have a hunch that OS for whatever reason changed their plating process and had some issues. Myself these days I prefer engines with true ABC construction.
So, which ones were truly ABC back in the day, and which ones are truly of ABC alloy these days?
Funny, "back in the day" I sound like the old guys when I was a kid, with the "back in aught 8" for 1908.

Last edited by Multi-Engine Guy; 11-19-2018 at 09:07 PM.
Old 11-19-2018, 09:07 PM
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I'm not 100% certain of this but I think it was only the car engines and the .40 VRP . The .61 Hanno is a possibility. Definitely not any of the FSR, SF, FX or AX.
Old 11-19-2018, 09:32 PM
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Default True ABC Engines

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I'm not 100% certain of this but I think it was only the car engines and the .40 VRP . The .61 Hanno is a possibility. Definitely not any of the FSR, SF, FX or AX.
No way! Really?! What about the ducted fan ones?
No wonder there were lawsuits. Now I feel gypped!
Is it too late for me to sue O.S.? Hah!
Well, you have to admit ABC rolls off the tongue easier than ABN. Just another marketing ploy obviously.

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