Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Bill....I backed OS engines....almost to a fault. Frankly, I didn't know much about
cylinder liners and plating. Then my beloved .61 RF blew the liner. []

If I'm not mistaken....the old style "triple chrome plating" was brass, nickle, then
chrome. The thing that get's me is....OS could have their liners chromed in China
or Taiwan for a few pennies each....the replacement cost for my blown liner/piston
was $120.00.....heh heh heh....

....a couple years ago, I bought two .61 Magnum XL's on sale for $65.00/each.

tigil

I use 46 fx few years a go and in the middle of the season i have the same problem and OS replace it for free and after a make somes flys and before i reach the end of the season the same problem come again

am folowing exacly the recommandations of the manufacturer 18% oil 15% nitro and I runing it so rich, I never see brown oil on my plane. am very desapointed about it

the second season I used a Tunder Tiger pro and burn almost 10 gallons without any problems

so, i have somes others OS surpass 70 , 120 and they run marvelously

DarZeelon

Tigil,


It is possible your rich running is a partial cause to what you are trying to prevent.

OS agrees that the break-in for their ABN/ABL engine should be done only slightly rich.
[link=http://www.osengines.com/faq/product-faq.html#q2]Their Q&A page[/link] says just this about it.

It also says you should lean it as soon as the engine will take it (i.e. will not sag from overheating).

Newer OS liners, are supposed to be less susceptible to peeling, due to a copper flash coat, before the nickel is applied to the brass sleeve, but Thunder Tiger engines rarely suffer from peeling, despite not advertising any special treatment.

Maybe you should contact Bax, at the RCU OS engines support forum.

My ABC/ABN break-in method is detailed [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Tapered%2DBore_Engine_Break%2Din_%2D_Upgraded/m_1850473/tm.htm]here[/link].

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

That sleeve pic of FBD's reminds me of what the sleeve of my .60FP looked like. An old friend gave me his almost new FP .60 after just running a couple tanks thru it on the bench. I put it in my TF Contender and ran it for awhile, about 3 gal. before it lost compression when hot, so I pulled the head and...[X(][:'(] I recall my old buddy said that he bought it when they first came out...
When was that, mid 80's maybe?

I put it away and kind of forgot about it until Dave's famous (infamous?) "Sad Demise" thread...

ChuckN

I have seen peeled nickel in OS's FSR series, VF series, SF series, and FX series. I have also seen peeled nickel in a YS 1.20. All of these engines were "used and abused", two of them by myself. I never thought about it being a big problem until I started seeing people complaining about it on the internet. The interesting thing is that my local hobbyshop owner never heard about it happening. I was the first one to tell him - several years after I first encountered it! It was something people never really talked about until the late George Aldrich started discussing it when he was the engine forum moderator at that first big R/C internet forum. Now, several years later, it appears the frequency has tapered off. The last motor that I have seen peel was a 46FX purchased back in '99 from a local hobbyshop. There's no telling when that engine was actually manufactured, possible a year or two before it was purchased. I feel strongly that whatever problem OS had has been addressed successfully. The crazy thing about our hobby is the fact that it is common for someone to purchase an engine for a project and then not complete the project for several years. By the time a fault is found it could be 5 years after the engine was manufactured. In some cases people look for or stumble across a brand new engine that is 10 or 15 years old. (I have a few of those!) It is unfair to say that a company is currently making junk carbs or faulty cylinder liners when the engine you are having trouble with is 10 years old.

Flypaper 2

It wasn't the material used for plating, ( chrome, nickle) but the method of applying it that was the problem. Most chainsaws, weedwacker, Snowmobile engines are Nickasil plated

tigil

I fly Control line since 1977 and I own a lot of kind Enya, Fox, Mc Coy, Super Tiger, Tunder Tiger, OS, Leo, Rossi, and recently a YS now I fly RC planes since few years and the only engine peel the chrome of the cylinder is my OS 46 FX my others engines is now much used to put on plane but all of theses cylinders is good but little scratchy
may be is a bad batch of OS

I let the chance to OS this summer and buy a 46 AX for A pylon racer

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

ChuckN:

You have me at a disadvantage when you mention YS. No experience with them, but I've never heard of a liner failure in a YS.

However you can not question the superiority of a chromed liner over a nickel plated liner.

You have heard of nickel plated liners peeling. You have never heard of a chromed liner peeling. Damaged by trash or overheting yes, but never a peeled chrome liner.

With the known inferiority of nickel plating, the only reason to buy an ABN (by whatever name) engine is for price. OS does not qualify.

Bill.

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

You said it Chuck. I don't want to keep whining about a blown engine, but
from a consumers standpoint....it's hard to take when a year old engine blows
for no reason, then OS says "it isn't a problem". I would expect them to make an
estimate of the % of the engines that might go bad, and have chrome replacements
made in Taiwan for practically nothing....and have them available to the unlucky
consumer for many years down the line. []

As an example....in the customer satisfaction arena....I recently purchased from
Yamaha, all the parts to re-do the top end of my 1978 750 Special. The valve
seals, carb rubbers, gaskets....everyhting....still in stock, 25 years later.

The last half dozen engine I've purchased are all OS....I still love the engines, but
these are all ringed motors....45/60/90 FSR's , and a couple big BGX-1 3500's.

Check this picture....this bugs me too. The engine on the left is the one that blew, I
have spares...that's not a problm....look what is says on the boxes....

....now, that's a problem.

FBD.

tigil

am not tel anyting bad about YS is just my new Baby

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

FBD:

OS continued to mark their boxes "ABC" for quite a while after they had switched to the inferior ABN design.

If the market were larger, some scum feeding lawyer would long ago have instituted a class action suit against OS for marketing fraud.

Bill.

ChuckN

Those Japanese companies are slick - and so is Great Planes importing/distributing. ABC did not mean Aluminum, Brass, Chrome to them. It meant Aluminum Brass Composite. But this is all water under the bridge. We're talking 15+ years ago! I think it was John Maloney of World Engines, the original importer of OS and Supertigre engines, that coined the term "ABC". It was first used to describe Supertigre's new pylon and rat racing engines of the early '70s. The term was never copyrighted and the process was never patented, to my knowledge. By 1975 OS, K&B, and Webra all had their own "ABC" type engines. OS referred to it as the "OS ABC Cylinder & Piston System."

Does anyone remember when the much maligned 46SF came out? I bought one back in 1988. That particular one didn't peel on me before I sold it. Not sure if it ever peeled or not. In fact, at that time I wasn't even aware that they could peel.

A lot of people don't realize it, but many ringed engines from OS and YS had electroless nickel plated cylinders. It's a great concept in a ringed engine because it has a lower coefficient of friction than hard chrome or plain steel and lasts practically forever. The ring will always wear first. Replace the ring when the ring gap gets too big and you have a virtually new engine. It's very difficult to tell if you have an electroless nickel plated cylinder in a ringed engine unless it peels or unless you have a steel cylinder that you can use to compare it to side-by-side. Use a magnet to check. The nickel plated brass cylinder is not magnetic.