Everything Radial Engines
#3001

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ORIGINAL: radial1951
Careful now, the cams appear to be HARDENED STEEL. Probably require EDM.
Regards RossG
radial1951
Careful now, the cams appear to be HARDENED STEEL. Probably require EDM.
Regards RossG
radial1951
EDM...
I am not familliar with that term??
Will the harden steel crack??
Thanks a bunch for the pictures...
Justin..
#3002
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Justin
EDM = Electrical Discharge Machining. Also known as Spark Erosion. Can "burn" a hole the shape of the electrode through any conductive metal, hard or not. Can be very accurate.
You probably won't be able to drill a hole in the cam gear. Although it may be just very tough rather than glass hard, don't know.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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Justin
EDM = Electrical Discharge Machining. Also known as Spark Erosion. Can "burn" a hole the shape of the electrode through any conductive metal, hard or not. Can be very accurate.
You probably won't be able to drill a hole in the cam gear. Although it may be just very tough rather than glass hard, don't know.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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ORIGINAL: kochj
What do you mean??
EDM...
I am not familliar with that term??
Will the harden steel crack??
Thanks a bunch for the pictures...
Justin..
ORIGINAL: radial1951
Careful now, the cams appear to be HARDENED STEEL. Probably require EDM.
Regards RossG
radial1951
Careful now, the cams appear to be HARDENED STEEL. Probably require EDM.
Regards RossG
radial1951
EDM...
I am not familliar with that term??
Will the harden steel crack??
Thanks a bunch for the pictures...
Justin..
#3003
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Hi Ross G,from looking at the exploded view of the Saito325 and the Saito450,it looks like the 325 has the extra gear between the crank shaft and the cam gear,whereas the 450 3cyl with it's slimmer crankcase drives direct from crank to cam gear,like single cyl Saito's.Don't need to worry about those extra five gears yet,I still have not run the engine,the only aircraft I have that will fit the 325 in the cowl is a Pitts Pithon sold by Dolphin Co. here in Australia,but I had this aircraft earmarked for an MVVS58.While not being as "3d" capable with the Saito,it sure would sound great,Mark.
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Hi SOUTHERNX Mark
Yes i realise there is an extra idler gear in the cam drives of the 325R3. It means the cams run opposite to the single cyl Saitos, but probably no matter if the cam lobe profile is symmetrical, or a special for the 325.
You wanted some pics of ASP cam drives etc. One cam plate doesn't line up with its row of tappets, and the engine came complete with factory fitted chewed up cheese head screws holding the cam plates to their drive gear. Also note the pitting on the crankshaft where the needle roller bearing of the cam runs. The AR400 is a close copy of the OS Sirius 5cyl, in layout and theory, that is... Increased from 50cc to 65cc.
As I said before, I am not a fan of ASP/Magnum engines.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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Hi SOUTHERNX Mark
Yes i realise there is an extra idler gear in the cam drives of the 325R3. It means the cams run opposite to the single cyl Saitos, but probably no matter if the cam lobe profile is symmetrical, or a special for the 325.
You wanted some pics of ASP cam drives etc. One cam plate doesn't line up with its row of tappets, and the engine came complete with factory fitted chewed up cheese head screws holding the cam plates to their drive gear. Also note the pitting on the crankshaft where the needle roller bearing of the cam runs. The AR400 is a close copy of the OS Sirius 5cyl, in layout and theory, that is... Increased from 50cc to 65cc.
As I said before, I am not a fan of ASP/Magnum engines.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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#3005

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That engine actually ran?
Or did the owner run the engine with the rust, and grind the rings out, with all that floating metal.??? err, rust I mean...
Or did the owner run the engine with the rust, and grind the rings out, with all that floating metal.??? err, rust I mean...
#3006
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more grief[:'(] ! i reassembled the asp400 cylinder head that i pulled off the #5 cylinder that was running cool.just as i suspected,the valves where not seating very well.checked valve adjustment on all cylinders and rechecked all engine bolts.the intake tube bolts on all five cylinders were loose.remounted engine and fired it up with a 22x8 ma wood prop.decided to try some cool power 15% full synthetic oil.man it loved it!. ran two tanks but couldnt get a tach reading{too dark}.fired it up again last night to get a tach reading,and to simulate a flight.i wanted to know how long the fuel would last and how much mah the glow batt used.fifteen minutes on a 22oz tank with an inch left in the bottom.everythings going great


#3007
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Hidoinkedit
Very sorry to hear of your drama. It's probably not so much the bolts as the aluminium crankcase threads which won't let you pull the bolts up tight. Then the heating, cooling and vibration take over. Careful you don't strip the threads in the case!!
Perhaps a low to medium strength thread locker will hold the bolts but allow easy removal if needed.
Do you think the valves just needed tappet clearance or do they not seat correctly? I can hear the air hissing out the exhaust port on my ASP 61 when it's on compression, but it does run quite well.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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Hidoinkedit
Very sorry to hear of your drama. It's probably not so much the bolts as the aluminium crankcase threads which won't let you pull the bolts up tight. Then the heating, cooling and vibration take over. Careful you don't strip the threads in the case!!
Perhaps a low to medium strength thread locker will hold the bolts but allow easy removal if needed.
Do you think the valves just needed tappet clearance or do they not seat correctly? I can hear the air hissing out the exhaust port on my ASP 61 when it's on compression, but it does run quite well.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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#3009
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the good news is that the rotating assembly looks perfect.also seems very robust and put together well.time will tell.i ran a magnum .70 and a.91 for couple seasons and had great luck.that was the deciding factor for me to pull the trigger.keep you all posted as the tale unwinds
#3010

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ORIGINAL: outacontrol41
The very reason I haven't bought one yet....because of stories like this. [&o]
The very reason I haven't bought one yet....because of stories like this. [&o]
It was this reason I jumped on the saito 325radial when saito had there 25year anniversary sale...
Now, I might sell it, as I now have a new moki radial on it's way...
Nice thing about the smaller Glow radials, is that they can be fitted to rather inexspensive airframes, and are easier to transport...
#3011
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Nice thing about the smaller Glow radials, is that they can be fitted to rather inexspensive airframes, and are easier to transport...
thus allowing us mere peasants to enjoying flying as well
thus allowing us mere peasants to enjoying flying as well

#3012
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radial,
it appeared the valve seats are cut at a slightly different angle than the valves,thus allowing an"interference seal",after time of course.pretty common on all engines actually. ie: 44 degrees on seats,45 on valves
it appeared the valve seats are cut at a slightly different angle than the valves,thus allowing an"interference seal",after time of course.pretty common on all engines actually. ie: 44 degrees on seats,45 on valves
#3014
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Hi doinkedit
Well I'm impressed. Parts within a week and $65. Not so bad... but shouldn't the damage be covered by the Warranty? Oh well, never mind :-)
Re the valves, yes the difference in angles allows "line contact" for a seal, especially with bronze seats which are not usually lapped, as the grinding grit can become impregnated in the bronze seat.
As long as the guide, seats and valve stem are all concentric, it will seal just fine.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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Hi doinkedit
Well I'm impressed. Parts within a week and $65. Not so bad... but shouldn't the damage be covered by the Warranty? Oh well, never mind :-)
Re the valves, yes the difference in angles allows "line contact" for a seal, especially with bronze seats which are not usually lapped, as the grinding grit can become impregnated in the bronze seat.
As long as the guide, seats and valve stem are all concentric, it will seal just fine.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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ORIGINAL: doinkedit
should have the parts by wednesday or thursday of next week.all parts in stock at global services
.little over sixty five dollars
should have the parts by wednesday or thursday of next week.all parts in stock at global services

#3015
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parts for the asp hit my box yesterday.way to go global services!.as i am out of town on business till friday,repair and test run report will have to wait till weekend
#3016


hehe....cool
What sounds better than a moki radial...........9 moki radials
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj6vZn8MFzg&feature=player_embedded#at=14[/youtube]

What sounds better than a moki radial...........9 moki radials

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj6vZn8MFzg&feature=player_embedded#at=14[/youtube]
#3020

ORIGINAL: fredo
That's exactly the place I'm talking about. If these things are screwed into each other they need a correct orientation as I mentioned before. As you can see ,the bottom part is bolted onto the housing and the upper part has a rocker arms connected. In order to make a correct alignment I think it needs to be fixed with some substance. Loktite? Sealing paste? Something that sets,seals and withstands high temperatures.
That's exactly the place I'm talking about. If these things are screwed into each other they need a correct orientation as I mentioned before. As you can see ,the bottom part is bolted onto the housing and the upper part has a rocker arms connected. In order to make a correct alignment I think it needs to be fixed with some substance. Loktite? Sealing paste? Something that sets,seals and withstands high temperatures.
I like to join in here from time to time because I find your experience and engine talk very interesting..

I did not read all 200+ pages, so I apologize if this question has been answered before.
When you screw together a cylinder head and a liner / cylinder, you would normally not adjust the final angle ororientation of the head with some cement or glue on the big fine pitch thread.
Rather you screw them together tightly, with sealing or without, with heat or without (depending on your design) and THEN you machine the bottom flange of the cylinder ( or liner). Both are usually not disassembled later, but a pair for a lifetime. Replaced as a complete group of parts in case of repair / damage.
Big radials often have round flanges at the bottom and use a lot of bolts with clamps to hold the cylinder to the crankcase; adjustment is done by some templates while assembling the engine.
When you machine the flange ( with drilling holes etc) such adjustment is not nessecary. Simply bolt it on the crankcase like normal.
A leaking engine at this special connection is a serious problem. High pressure, high temperatures, and maybe different materials giving different thermal expansion. You cannot add a sealing ( you would lose the angle adjustment as said above) and also lose compression. One chance might be to try to tight seal the big fine pitch thread.
A demanding task.
#3023

Okay, here is an application of a Siedel UMS built radial I would have never thought of!
[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z2KBHHLk4s&feature=related[/link]
[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z2KBHHLk4s&feature=related[/link]
#3024


Awesome scenery ! Aren't they sponsored by Jetair ? That tail logo vaguely tells me something [:-]
PS : Heh we now all know what you're onto...
PS : Heh we now all know what you're onto...
#3025
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Well I finally got my new Saito FA-200R3 installed and hooked up in my Yak 50.
I got the plane in 2009 off ebay au. It was just the bare plane, no engine, tank, servos, etc. Originally had a SuperTigre 3000 fitted. Glass fuze with sheeted and glassed one piece(!) wing, 81" span. Built about 1980, hadn't been flown for 10+yrs, but obviously cared for. And of course it has a ROUND cowling. I just knew it would come in handy some day... It's just about ready for it's maiden flight with new radial power.
Here's the first short run. Only 20 turns of the hand pump. Before this, I used a syringe to put a few cc's in the carby just to get it to fire up and run for a few seconds. I did that maybe 4 times. I gave it 2 runs that day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WzKAwr_hO8
The next day it had its 3rd run. Wouldn't start, no matter what I did. On board glow battery completely dead! Must have bumped the switch some time, the rocker switch under the chin in the pic below. Will put a simple sheet metal cover over it. The engine started fine with 2 glow drivers. Even without the on-board glow, it idled nicely at 1600rpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld88cJgf2XI
Nice engine. Sounds great.
Regards RossG
radial1951
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