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Everything Radial Engines

Old 11-19-2007, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Can anyone recommend a suitable 5-cylinder radial for a 1/4 scale Fleet Model 2? (The Kinner engine has the pushrods behind the cylinders.) It has to be a practical, reliable engine, suitable for Scale Masters competition, where you have to make five or six 10-15 minute flights over two or three days. I don't want a "tinkerers delight".

I have a Kavan 50cc to trade.
Old 11-20-2007, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

That must be either the ASP 400 ,or Saito 325 , those are the most common 5 cylinder radials.


-nrg
Old 11-20-2007, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Nils, think You found the parts http://www.krumscheid-metallwaren.de...op.php?lang=EN , these are the parts I used for the Saito collector, bending radius is 75mm.

gnome

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Old 11-20-2007, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Do either one of these have their valve pushrods behind the cylinder, like the full-scale Kinner?
Old 11-20-2007, 03:47 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

No, unfortunately not, this is because of the much simpler crank design, when the pushrods are in front of the cylinder. I do know only one model radial engine with the valve train behind the cylinders, it's the MORTON. But that is a 1940s (?) construction and has only 15cc displacement. Perhaps You should build Your own radial, may be by blowing up the MORTON drawings...

gnome

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Old 11-20-2007, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Our current plan is to use the Williams Brothers Wright Whirlind J-5 1/4 scale dummy plastic cylinders (which the Fleet 2 kit maker, Concept Models, says resemble the Kinner cylinders), and a long shaft inverted 2-stroke gas engine buried back in the nose, a Zenoah G38 or a Ryobi 31cc weed trimmer engine, as converted by JAG, Ltd. Alternatively, the kit comes with a plan for making dummy Kinner cylinders from stacks of plywood disks.

We are actually building a military primary trainer version of the Fleet 2, called th Consolidated PT-6A. There is a beautiful restored PT-6A in the March Field Air Museum (Riverside, California), where I work as a volunteer. This plane was used as a trainer at March Field in 1930. The Concept Models 1/4 scale kit of the Fleet 2 has been around since 1977, and over 3000 have been sold.

Pictures below show a civilan Fleet 2, the March Field PT-6A, and the framework of the Concept Models 1/4 scale.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:46 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

That's a beauty! I've attached a couple of my basement photos with the 7 year-old digital camera here for you to see.

The little one with the pushrods in the rear is the Morton M-5 as mentioned by Gnome above. They started making them around 1945.

The big 5.7ci engine is the Forest Edwards radial. This is an example of what happens what happens when someone builds one of thier own. He built one.... flew it and made a dozen or so more. Then he made a bigger one on ingition (like the one shown) and made a nother dozen or so more (30 in total). Others have made them too as the plans are in the public domain and are free to be had (glow version only).

One day I'll have to retake these photos with the Wife's REAL digital camera. (they would look much better--especially when they have been cleaned!).
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Old 11-21-2007, 03:10 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Geezus Steve! How many friggin' engines do you have now??
Old 12-01-2007, 03:50 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Hello Kmot and others, here it's cold outside too and everybody seems to felle asleep, so here is something to dream of, may be. I think I've found a superb model for the Seidel ST 540, a 1:5 KELLET Autogyro. Click the videos of this model and the old air mail clip "tric ky buisiness" too on the "Kits Autogyro Company of Arizona" site, think I order a kit very soon!


http://www.autogyro-rc.com/Kits.html

gnome

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Old 12-01-2007, 10:58 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

There was a review on the kit about a year ago, and it looked pretty good.
Old 12-01-2007, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

I wonder if an autogyro flies as unstable as a helicopter or if it is pretty much as a normal airplane, to test this, I ordered a Cierva autogyro from Flying Styro Kits,...

gnome

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Old 12-01-2007, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Would certainly be an unusual subject.
Old 12-01-2007, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Slightly off topic, but i can tell you that i've flown an autogyro (made by myself) that were really easy to fly, it's stable, don't worry. Mine was even able to to loopings and rolls !

It flies more like a plane than an helicopter.

Gilles
Old 12-01-2007, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Thank You, Gilles, then I think the Kellett will be my next radial powered modell!, an autogyro is really cool...

gnome

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Old 12-01-2007, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

the 540 oud make for a large autogyro!!

I ran my ST710 today, ran good. It seem that i still have a cyl or two that go pretty cold, but when I throttle up they come back on line. I have run about 3 liters thru it and it still has black exhaust goo. Could be I am still on the 8% break in fuel...
Old 12-01-2007, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Gnome,

You are lucky to have a 540, i'm trying to find one, but prices are..%&ç%&

Gilles
Old 12-01-2007, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Gilles, I have it for about 10 years now but never had it in the air, and I must confess, that Seidel really could improve the running charachteristics of his engines. The idle of the 540 is absolutely perfect, but the largest prop that works is a 19''x8'' at about 5800 rpm, bigger props cause pinking.

I've seen a 540 for sale at the MECA meeting in Ungstein this year, price was about 800,- Euro I think. There is a MECA meeting in Swizzerland every year, perhaps You should have a look there?

gnome

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Old 12-02-2007, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Have you tried using an extra washer under the glow plugs to reduce the compression ratio?


Ed Cregger
Old 12-02-2007, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

No, Ed Cregger, I did'nt, thought an extra washer would not reduce the compression ratio enough, but may be You are right and I should have a try. If the compression is 8.5 now, I calculated that it would be about 8.3 with the second gasket, it's possible that this is enough to prevent pinking and power loss.

Tank You for the hint...

gnome

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Old 12-02-2007, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Ok you radial folks...I need help selecting my first radial engine,

I have been in the hobby for almost longer then I want to remember...AMA 15016. I have used and flown only glow engines with my largest glow engine a S.T. G90.

I just managed to buy a Giant Aeromaster Biplane...and I want to put a radial engine on this airframe. My first large model...and can go gas or radial.

Who makes the most reliable radial engine for this model. And where do I buy one. I'm looking for the best price...and this will be my first round engine.

I have flown and maintained radial engine aircraft and I have experience in C-45/D-18's and typed in L18's ( Howard 250).

Any help would be nice,
Soft landings always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 12-02-2007, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

The Saito five cylinder radial would be about right

It is 53CC and with the parasitic losses of the multiple cylinders should come out just right.

It is readily available and in stock at Horizon


http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...dID=SAIE325R5D
Old 12-03-2007, 10:33 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Bob, I think the OS and the Saito are both good. I have an OS and it is very reliable. From my experience a good glow driver is a must if you want to minimize hassles. I use a McDaniels driver and when I take the radial to the field it is as dependable and hassle free as the single and twin cylinder OS engines. The OS turns a 20/10 prop at about 6900 rpms and power for this 26 lb. biplane is more than adequate. DWR.
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Bob,

You can't go wrong with the OS or Saito for your first radial. I have the Saito and it is a sweet handling motor. It is my easiest starting, best running, most reliable motor I have ever owned. I fly it in an Aeroworks Stearman but at one time considered the Aeromaster for it. It should be a perfect fit.

Jeff
Old 12-03-2007, 12:00 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Hay Jeff and DWR,
Thank you for response to my questions. I like the look of the OS, but I also like the reports I've read about the Saito radial.

I thought that these radials would be to large for the Giant Aeromaster Biplane, but from what you have told me...an other modelers, they would work well.

I look hard at the Aero Works Stearman...but when I was able to buy the Giant AeroMaster Biplane ARF for $144.99 (with cupons and special rebate offers), it was easy to go with the G. AeroMaster. I have flown the smaller .60 size version of this biplane, and my hats off to Mr. Andrews, for it is one of the best flying biplanes I ever flew. If the G. AeroMaster flies anywhere near as nice as the .60 size, I'm going to be in modelers heaven.

Soft Landings always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 12-03-2007, 12:46 PM
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Default RE: Everything Radial Engines

Bob

Regarding the choice between the OS and the Saito, The guys using saito seem to have difficulties to find the good fuel (cool power was the best for saito engines regarding the comment they made), the OS seem to be less selective for the fuel, as long as it contain 10% nitro...

Do saito user have any comment on this point ???

Gilles

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