stevesak

My Feedback: (27)

I think that India has done a lot of repro work in the past like on the mills .75 diesel. That one is worth a few bucks if new. I sold one a while back for over $100, if I recall correctly. I suppose it will depend upon the manufacturer and the quality of the work that they produce. So I suppose, in the end, it will ultimately depend upon how well Mr. Seidel and his company manage their outsourcer.

Quality as it pertains to mechanical manufacturing such as these engines is very measurable and can be strictly controlled if managed correctly.

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

Live rates at 2009.02.09 20:34:10 UTC
1,000.00 EUR = 1,302.64 USD
Euro United States Dollars
1 EUR = 1.30264 USD 1 USD = 0.767669 EUR
n

not ba at all. mostly affordable

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

OS 5 cyl radial for $2000 or a Seidel 7 cyl for $1300. Do the math.

Dad_Roman

Math done....no brainer resolved...

Cybertom

RISKY PROPOSOTION

I think it's great to make radial engines more affordable but not at the sacrifice of quality. I for one would be more than happy to pay the old price for a radial built in Germany. The radials manufactured in India will have to prove themselves. If they suffer from quality issues it can ruine the Seidel reputation.

CHASRB
Yes I will still fly with you. Bring her to my Warbirds Fly-In 1st Saturday of August 2009 and we will get them both in the air.

ElectRick

My Feedback: (2)

I would expect that Mr. Seidel has thought of that, and will take the necessary steps to keep that from happening, if he values his reputation.

Maybe the Indian-manufactured engines deserve a chance before being assumed to be inferior?

I am as much a stickler for quality as anyone. That said, I offer this example-I have an electric guitar that a well-known US based manufacturer has produced for them in India, that rivals most American made instruments in quality of materials, fit, and finish. I paid about one fourth as much for this instrument as I would have for the same model made in the USAwith zero regrets.

Quality in manufacturing is not the exclusive domain of Germany, Japan, or the USA.



Rick

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

I am a hobby machinist. I cannot afford to buy tooling that is the top brand name. So I buy the economy priced tooling. Most of the economy priced precision tooling is manufactured in India.

I used to work in a company that had some Indian immigrants working there. These guys were no slouches in the brain and skill department. I have no qualms about products manufactured in India.

It all boils down to what the distributor wants to pay for the part. If he spec's a cheap quality item that is what will be produced. If he spec's a precision quality item, again that is what can be produced.

Cybertom

ElectRick,

I know what you are saying. I don't think I was saying that they won't be of good quality just because they are being made in India. I hope that none of us here are judging the quality of work "solely on the basis of ethnic background". I said:

I stand by what I said. Porsche, Mercedes, and Seidel all have a reputation for quality that was well earned. I don't think I'm going too far by saying that German goods in general have earned an excellent reputation for quality worldwide. India has yet to prove that it can manufacture goods to the same quality standard as Germany. I don’t automatically bestow excellence on anyone because I think excellence is difficult to achieve.

One thing you must admit is that developing industrial nations such as China or India have a significant portion of the population that is relatively unskilled. That is no slam that is simply reality. Typically that translates into "cheap labor". Do you think that the elite individuals you met who were given the opportunity to travel overseas are representative of all Indians? Time will tell.

merlin51

Hi Tom I have and fly a pt17 with a seidel 770 on it. No it not a hanger queen as my son and I try to get it out a couple times each year. We would fly it more ,but it takes us one hour to put the plane together and an hour to take apart so that doesn't leave much fly time. We try to fly it at the Warbirds over Delaware event each year. Dave

ElectRick

My Feedback: (2)

I suppose it just remains to be seen, how good any Seidel engines made in India turn out to be.

One question that may need to be asked is, "how good do they NEED to be?" I personally would settle for somewhat less than 'BMW' quality if I were in the market for a radial, as long as it wasn't a piece of outright junk and looked/ran reasonably well, for an affordable price.

I certainly can appreciate the quality of German engineering (for those willing to pay the premium for it), but a Chevy will get me where I need to go just as well as a Porsche, for one heckuva lot less money.

YMMV.

Rick

Cybertom

Merlin51,

Can I talk you into comming to my "Warbirds at the Summit" event here in Ohio? We had 46-pilots, 74-aircraft, and 500-spectators last year. I'm looking to double that.

merlin51

Cyber Tom. I told you the wrong engine on the pt17 it is a seidel 996. When is your event? My vacation time is runnig low. I am taking care of the wife wish list in April so that I can go out to Reno for the air races in sept. I am a crew member on two jets that we take out and race from Delaware. We were 1 and 3 last year. Dave

Cybertom

Merlin51,

Warbirds at the Summit 2009 will be held on Saturday August 1st.

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

Hey guys.....i am new to the entire radial engine thing. I have one seen videos of some of the radials such as the RCS 215 and 250 , and a few on the saito 325 and 450's and so forth.

I am going to be picking up a 97" Gee Bee Y sometime this summer , and was going to do the same ol' , same ol' and just put a big Zenoha 62 single on it....BUT , i can not get over the sound these radials put out.

With that being said , out of all the radials you guys have ran , is there a saito like the 325 or 450 that sound anything like ( or as good) as these RCS radials? I can't believe how scale they sound , and this IS what i want in my Gee Bee. I just can't see myself spending , $3400.00 - $3800.00 for a motor.

I am looking for something that could be serviced here , or possibly canada,.....i don't really want to deal with overseas shipping. are there other brands that are considered reliable that people have tried and really liked?

thank you.

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

After doing some more reading , it looks like the magnum 400 ASP engine would work. It looks to be 12.8 cc per cylinder , which would make it a 64cc motor i guess. The saito 450 would probably work for my application as well....but i wanted to go with a more "radial" type engine....not a offset 3 cylinder.

I'm sure at the cost of the magnum 400.....probably quite a few guys have them. Could i get some dimentions on this motor , to find out if it would fit in a 97" Gee Bee y?

BTW....this thread is a GREAT READ! I've learned alot so far.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

In a nutshell, no.....

The RCS are gasoline burning, spark plug ignition engines. That right there makes them sound different.
The RCS are 5 times the displacement of the Saito 325. That right there makes a huge difference in the sound.

All radial model engines seem so make that desirable sound, at the low end of the rpm spektrum. The large RCS/Moki radial powered models seem to be able to fly sufficiently well at lower rpm levels so that joyous sound can be played for a much longer time.

However, interesting to me is the fact that the three cylinder radials from Saito, have that "sound" we like based on the fact there are less cylinders "popping". Search for some videos of the Saito 170 and 450 radials and you will see what I mean.

That said, I would consider the Saito 450 a prime candidate for your 97" Gee Bee.

stevesak

My Feedback: (27)

I agree. From a sound perspective, the Saito 3 cyl engine are said to sound the most (?) realistic. Because our model enginines run at much higher RPMs than the full sized ones, fewer cylinders should actually sound more scale.

Also, the Saito 3 cyl radials are not offset. Rest assured that it is has a master rod, with two slave rods connected all on a single throw. They are traditional four stroke radial engines that happen to have only 3 cylinders.

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

Awesome guys...thanks for the info. I had also thought the Magnum 400 may work well for my gee bee too with it being a 64cc motor....i think that's right. I watched some videos on these as well , and the dang thing sounds impressive! Like i said , i could just stick with gas ( which is mostly what i fly in the 30-40% aerobatic aircraft , but i really , really want a scale sounding Gee Bee Y. I don'tknow what it is about this aircraft , but i slobber every time i see one. The Gee Bee R3 is completely out of my price range. Especially the airworld model.....last time i checked , i think it was about $6500.00 for the airframe!

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Okay radial heads, here is a treat for the ASP/Magnum FS400AR owners and enthusiasts. This is a Simprop Gee Bee, which in American terms is the Pacific Aeromodels 82" span version (2 meter). I had thought this size might be a candidate for the FS400 and this German fellow has removed all doubt!!

This is by far the best video of the FS400 mounted in a flying plane that I have yet seen.

Video

http://www.modelbouwbloemendaal.nl/Gas-Powered-Airplane-E_grp_15_15-1.php]Simprop Gee Bee[/url]

Pac Aero Gee Bee

Broken Wings

My Feedback: (20)

NICE!!!

Ram Jet

I wonder how much he'd charge me just to hold the engine in my hands for five minutes?

Bill

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

Kmot, I notice that he did n't have much if any for ducting or air dams. I think that is a good thing for the Bearcat I am building....

asnook

Hi all
Wonder If you could help me please, i have Top flite Staggerwing with a saito 170 Radial Fitted. Do you think this is enough power and I am having trouble with the engine performing at the top end with the Kelco exhaust fitted. It just does not produce the full power, when i fit the stock exhausts its fine.
Thanks in advance
Alan

Armin de Vries

New 130 ccm 3Zyl. Radial

Armin

stevesak

My Feedback: (27)

Armin,

Can you please tell me what that radial is called, where I can get it, and how much it costs?

If they are available, then I will have to start saving. This one is a definate "must" for the collection.

->Steve