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Old 06-06-2013, 03:43 AM
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You hav'nt tuned it well,sounds like it's to lean.
Old 06-06-2013, 03:49 AM
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Yeh know what you mean by old magazines and or old knowledge,trick is to remember it!

Now a serious question for all as it's the start of winter here.My prop and washer nuts are going a nice shade of rusty brown.Would anybody here know of something i can spray on my fourfinger and rub on my nuts to stop them going rusty?
Old 06-06-2013, 05:55 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Yeh know what you mean by old magazines and or old knowledge,trick is to remember it!

Now a serious question for all as it's the start of winter here.My prop and washer nuts are going a nice shade of rusty brown.Would anybody here know of something i can spray on my fourfinger and rub on my nuts to stop them going rusty?
If the parts have a nice even coat of rust, boil them in water!

It will turn the red oxide black or @ least a dark brown.

Card off W/a wire brush & repaet the rust/boil/card cycle if you want a darker gray/black. If it is the color you want, oil it.

It's the same process as "rust blueing" on high end custom guns.

Here's a Mauser I "blued" W/that very process.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:04 AM
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ORIGINAL: AeroFinn


Despite all my attemps to slow down the model and even if I used 30 deg flaperons to slow down the model it came down to landing very ''hot''. I couldn't slow it down to a nice 3-point landing but had to ''force'' it on the ground. This let to a bouncy landing which translated to a slightly bent aluminium landing gear. Phew! no big issues, fortunately!

So I'm very pleased with how things have gone so far and this is why I'm writing here. So thank you all, this is a great forum!

I think my next phase is to tinker with the LS needle; as I reported earlier I had a reliable idle at 2000-2100 rpm when I first set the LS needle & the HS needle being temporarily set to peak rpm. And I think idle speed of 2100 or so with an APC 15x8 is pretty much you need to achieve if you want to land an aerobatic model confortably. Summing up things: Something has happened to my initial correct low speed mixture setting along with when I richened the HS needle to where it's now..?

but anyways, thank you all again

Artto

A simple CDI conversion should allow idle speeds of 1400 to 1700 RPM depending on the weight of the prop.

Your needle settings will also be less touchy as they will no longer affect igntion timing.

20% better fuel economy & a slight boost in power W/O as much oily mess. On anything 100or bigger, it's a good bargain.
Old 06-06-2013, 06:10 AM
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Dan is that a German or an Argentine Mauser. a friend of mine built a Winchester 264 magnum and used a German Mauser action for it and had the bolt engine turned. It was beautiful.
Old 06-06-2013, 06:12 AM
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I'm still working on the little .30, there is just barely enough room for the Hall effect sensor. I know its super impractical but it's fun.
Old 06-06-2013, 08:31 AM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Dan is that a German or an Argentine Mauser. a friend of mine built a Winchester 264 magnum and used a German Mauser action for it and had the bolt engine turned. It was beautiful.
It's neither German nor Agentine, it's Yugoslavian.. It is an exectionally fine (german) miltary surplus K98 barrel that was turned down to my specified contour & screwed into a VZ500 commercial intermediate length LR 98 action. I free floated the barrel & the middle section of the action, bedding only the rear tang, front reciever ring & 1st 3" of barrel ahead of the reciever ring. The barrel channel is sealed W/fiberglass bedding W/.030" clearance for the barrel. It shoots exceptional well W/200 grain bullets loaded to full power 60K psi loads. The barrel just happened to headspace perfectly on the tight side of spec's when screwed into the action.

I bought 2 of the actions back around 2000 from a guy in Idaho for $135 ea. They were imported by Herters in the mid '60s & never barreled. I modified the "butterknife" bolt handle for low scope mounting as well as adding a M70 type 3-position wing safety. I have about $650 & lots of work in the rifle. The only thing I "farmed out" was the barrel contouring & I bought the stock semi-inletted.

The actions were made in Yugoslavia & are the commercial version of the M48 Yugo action. They are large ring, large thread shank M98 actions made on the small ring length. Too short for '06 length cartridges, but ideal for cartridges based on the 57mm case, 7 X 57, 257 Roberts, 6mm Remington, 8 X 57, etc. Also ideal for 6.5 X 55 & 54mm 308 based cartridges.

The entire gun, scope & mounts weighs just 7#. Not very heavy for an intermediated length cartridge W/a 23 1/2" barrel.




The 1st picture below is from the breech end of the barrel. It has a polished chamber & lapped rifling. Wondering if it was a match or sniper barrel.

The 2nd picture is of the underside of the front receiver ring showing the "YUGOSLVIA" stamp.

The 3rd picture is what the actions looked like when I received them.

The last picture is the 1st 3 shots (on paper) out of the gun W/that particular load. I had done some preliminary "load development" on my back deck W/a chronograph to check for pressure & good stanadard deviation. It worked so well I never changed the load.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:49 AM
  #24983  
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Very nice finish!
Old 06-06-2013, 09:05 AM
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ORIGINAL: blw

Very nice finish!
The blue is the slow rust blue method W/"nitre coloring" on the small, low wear area, screws, striker, extractor & bolt catch spring. Actually I did not use nitre salts, but just polished the parts "bright" & baked them in the oven @ the appropriate temperatures to bring out the "straw" (gold) & bright blue colors. It's the same as using color to determine tempering. It is not very durable so it can't be used in areas that see a lot of handling wear.

The wood finish is Min-Wax Antique Oil Finish W/Birchwood Casey "Rusty walnut" water based stain.

I need to find someone to do a modest checkering pattern on the wrist & forend to finish it off.

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Old 06-06-2013, 10:03 AM
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BTW: Thread hijack @ "gunpoint" over. Back to Saitos, although any of the rust blueing or "nitre coloring" tips can be used to gussy up the steel parts on your engines.

The rust blueing is easy on small parts. Just get an even coat of rust & boil in a stainess steel pan on the stove, then remove the powdery suface oxide W/a wire brush. Keep repeating the rust/boil/card cycle until you get the dark gray/black color you desire. Once it's oiled, the black oxide finish is very rust & wear resistant.

Boiling the parts won't even stink up the kitchen. Same for baking clean polished parts in the oven for the pretty "nitre" coloring. Use the heat/color chart in my post above working up slowly to see how your particular oven regulates heat. If you go too far, just polish the part back to bright & start over. Don't atempt the blue nitre colors on hardened parts as you will be tempering out some of the hardness.

Wear old clothes when carding off the surface for the rust blue, it will make you black & grimey.
Old 06-06-2013, 02:28 PM
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I get my "rusty bits" anodised.  Colour co ordinate them with the Dubro spinners I use. Did a set of "nuts" in a sort of hot pink and had a similar coloured spinner.  The comments about my sexuality resulted in that lot being consigned to the bottm draw, but it was good for a laugh at the SAM  1788 champs.

 Old Fart Australias version of Top Gun will be run next year, check out RCMN for articles about the Gratton Do this year.  We will be running big Saito's in a new racing (Scale a/c) class there. 
Old 06-06-2013, 04:29 PM
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Hi RowdyJoe,

I just checked and Horizon Hobby apparently doesn't carry the FA-80 Carb in stock any more. You might do a search for Saito p/n 80821B or 80821C. It looks like the 80821C was the latest (as of a 2005 manual). The 80821B was in the 1999 manual.

I hope that this helps some.

Bob
Old 06-06-2013, 04:54 PM
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Hi RowdyJoe,

I stand corrected. Horizon Hobby has one in stock for about $52. Look for part number SAI80821C

http://www.horizonhobby.com/webapp/w...pe=productgrid

Hope that this helps,

Bob
Old 06-06-2013, 05:56 PM
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I would suggest to you all (don't kill me old fart) that when you come up dry in a search for Saito bits that you try Hobby Headquarters in Sydney Australia (not Canada).  If that fails a direct approach to Saito generally works for me
Old 06-06-2013, 07:58 PM
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Thanks Bob and FNQFLYER. I knew someone on this thread would have the answer.

Bob,
Your "searcher"must have some majic in it as I thought I had searched Horizon very thoroughly. However, that's what I get for "thinking.

Thanks again guys.
Garry

Old 06-07-2013, 06:54 AM
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: AeroFinn


Despite all my attemps to slow down the model and even if I used 30 deg flaperons to slow down the model it came down to landing very ''hot''. I couldn't slow it down to a nice 3-point landing but had to ''force'' it on the ground. This let to a bouncy landing which translated to a slightly bent aluminium landing gear. Phew! no big issues, fortunately!

So I'm very pleased with how things have gone so far and this is why I'm writing here. So thank you all, this is a great forum!

I think my next phase is to tinker with the LS needle; as I reported earlier I had a reliable idle at 2000-2100 rpm when I first set the LS needle & the HS needle being temporarily set to peak rpm. And I think idle speed of 2100 or so with an APC 15x8 is pretty much you need to achieve if you want to land an aerobatic model confortably. Summing up things: Something has happened to my initial correct low speed mixture setting along with when I richened the HS needle to where it's now..?

but anyways, thank you all again

Artto

A simple CDI conversion should allow idle speeds of 1400 to 1700 RPM depending on the weight of the prop.

Your needle settings will also be less touchy as they will no longer affect igntion timing.

20% better fuel economy & a slight boost in power W/O as much oily mess. On anything 100or bigger, it's a good bargain.
Hi Dan

I already purchased a CDI conversion kit from CH - ignitions. I decided, however, to run the engine in on glow plug to get benchmark data and keep it simple during the running-in process. I think I can now get a reliable idle at 2100 once I'm done with resetting the LS needle. (although I'm puzzled how on earth it went rich as I adjusted it properly and then richened the HS by 300-350 rpm at full tank. I wasn't expecting this to have such a substantial effect on the LS setting, too)

Maybe the friction between the piston ring / cylinder still keeps decreasing or the ring keeps getting seated better and better? and thus the LS needle setting won't stay correct until the engine has run a bit more?..I dunno..all I know I can tinker the LS a bit and probably get things sorted out.

Once I have realiable benchmark data (just for personal interest and to spread out my experience from the conversion in this forum) I will convert the engine on CDI

btw there is a review on a Saito CDI in http://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalo...xperience.html

The guy says he is running on straight synthetic and yet gets a reliable idle at 1900 rpm. He could have, maybe, experimented with more advanced timing as he reports rich mid range at 28 deg BTDC.

On CDI my goal is to get a reliable idle at 1700 rpm or so on 5-10% nitro and a heavy, APC 15x8 prop. We'll see what happens as many folks here say the FA-125 has quite a "hot" cam so the engine wouldn't be designed to idle well at low rpm range. Wether this is true or false, I'm not qualified enough to say.

Dan,

how's your FA-91 idling? Do I recall right at 1900 rpm or so?





Old 06-07-2013, 08:10 AM
  #24992  
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

BTW: Thread hijack @ ''gunpoint'' over. Back to Saitos, although any of the rust blueing or ''nitre coloring'' tips can be used to gussy up the steel parts on your engines.

The rust blueing is easy on small parts. Just get an even coat of rust & boil in a stainess steel pan on the stove, then remove the powdery suface oxide W/a wire brush. Keep repeating the rust/boil/card cycle until you get the dark gray/black color you desire. Once it's oiled, the black oxide finish is very rust & wear resistant.

Boiling the parts won't even stink up the kitchen. Same for baking clean polished parts in the oven for the pretty ''nitre'' coloring. Use the heat/color chart in my post above working up slowly to see how your particular oven regulates heat. If you go too far, just polish the part back to bright & start over. Don't atempt the blue nitre colors on hardened parts as you will be tempering out some of the hardness.

Wear old clothes when carding off the surface for the rust blue, it will make you black & grimey.
Thanks for the refresher course on blueing. Good stuff to know and I don't see it as a hijack. Somewhere, this info is going to help somebody trying to clean up engine parts.

BTW, I just bought a Judge with the Crimson Trace laser. My wife wanted me to.
Old 06-07-2013, 01:39 PM
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A quick thought.  I / we have never really had any problem with engine compression and low idling rpm's across the range of Saito engines up to 120 size.  Haven't really  ventured much above that except for the gas engines I still have to run.  The most imporant pointsare setting up the engine as per manufacturers specs.  They generally "know best" and have given us a set of parameters that give a "good middle of the path" situation.  To step beyond that is not verboten.  When all else fails the rule is read the specs and then back to basics.  Re the compression thing, if I have any doubt about compression of a cylinder, a squirt of oil down the barrel and then turn it over by hand after replacing the plug, if you can still spin it over with your little finger check for any leaks and start reaching for the cheque book / credit card.  For general sports use "loss of compression" in the situations described is no biggy and re idle what is a couple of hundred revs give or take really matter.  Now in competition that is a different matter and to that end considering my new endeavour any body got any tips on which Saito 120 to get (single or twin plug etc) and any rework for performanmce tips please.  No sense re inventing the wheel here if someone else already has done it before
Old 06-07-2013, 05:55 PM
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Hi mate won't be going to gratton have a new motorcycle to look at shortly.The bigger saito glow singles get easier to tune i find and some people have milled a bit off the barrel for a slight increase in compression re sr telemaster etc.

Dan thanks for the blueing tips i've watched a gunsmith mate do it and it's messy so will leave that to him still miss my 7x57mm based on a custom m98 action serial 1058..an early one!

Barry it must be like the last gunfight at the OK corral at your place
Old 06-09-2013, 09:34 AM
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ORIGINAL: AeroFinn


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: AeroFinn


Despite all my attemps to slow down the model and even if I used 30 deg flaperons to slow down the model it came down to landing very ''hot''. I couldn't slow it down to a nice 3-point landing but had to ''force'' it on the ground. This let to a bouncy landing which translated to a slightly bent aluminium landing gear. Phew! no big issues, fortunately!

So I'm very pleased with how things have gone so far and this is why I'm writing here. So thank you all, this is a great forum!

I think my next phase is to tinker with the LS needle; as I reported earlier I had a reliable idle at 2000-2100 rpm when I first set the LS needle & the HS needle being temporarily set to peak rpm. And I think idle speed of 2100 or so with an APC 15x8 is pretty much you need to achieve if you want to land an aerobatic model confortably. Summing up things: Something has happened to my initial correct low speed mixture setting along with when I richened the HS needle to where it's now..?

but anyways, thank you all again

Artto

A simple CDI conversion should allow idle speeds of 1400 to 1700 RPM depending on the weight of the prop.

Your needle settings will also be less touchy as they will no longer affect igntion timing.

20% better fuel economy & a slight boost in power W/O as much oily mess. On anything 100or bigger, it's a good bargain.
Hi Dan

I already purchased a CDI conversion kit from CH - ignitions. I decided, however, to run the engine in on glow plug to get benchmark data and keep it simple during the running-in process. I think I can now get a reliable idle at 2100 once I'm done with resetting the LS needle. (although I'm puzzled how on earth it went rich as I adjusted it properly and then richened the HS by 300-350 rpm at full tank. I wasn't expecting this to have such a substantial effect on the LS setting, too)

Maybe the friction between the piston ring / cylinder still keeps decreasing or the ring keeps getting seated better and better? and thus the LS needle setting won't stay correct until the engine has run a bit more?..I dunno..all I know I can tinker the LS a bit and probably get things sorted out.

Once I have realiable benchmark data (just for personal interest and to spread out my experience from the conversion in this forum) I will convert the engine on CDI

btw there is a review on a Saito CDI in http://www.justengines.co.uk/acatalo...xperience.html

The guy says he is running on straight synthetic and yet gets a reliable idle at 1900 rpm. He could have, maybe, experimented with more advanced timing as he reports rich mid range at 28 deg BTDC.

On CDI my goal is to get a reliable idle at 1700 rpm or so on 5-10% nitro and a heavy, APC 15x8 prop. We'll see what happens as many folks here say the FA-125 has quite a ''hot'' cam so the engine wouldn't be designed to idle well at low rpm range. Wether this is true or false, I'm not qualified enough to say.

Dan,

how's your FA-91 idling? Do I recall right at 1900 rpm or so?






My FA91S CDI is idling reliably @ 1700 RPM & turning a 15 X 5 Zinger @ 9700 RPM making about 15# of static thrust.. My big block singles run anywhere from 1400 to 1100 RPM W/a heavy nylon Dynathrust prop. If you ship needs nose weight, the prop is the best place to put it. A heavy prop will slow down wind up some, but not affect maximum RPM & it will improve idle reliability.

It's always a good idea to do some bench runs on GI to get a baseline & breaking it in @ the richer GI needle settings doesn't hurt either. The engine can be broken in W/CDI if care is taken.. On a new engine it's a good idea to use GI for break in as there will be no questions if the engine suffers from "infant mortality" due to faulty materials/workmanship (warranty)

As far as the midrange being rich W/CDI?

If the engine can't be tuned for improved midrange/idle/transition (over GI) @ full on 34° BTDC ignition timing W/methanol fuel, the engine either has a carburator that is faulty or just not able to be adjusted properly. More likely it is because of someone that doesn't know how to adjust the glow fuel carb for CDI or perhaps they don't want bothered W/finding the full potential.

Methanol fuel MUST be run @ substantially more timing advance than gasoline throughout the RPM range to get full benefit of the higher relative octane & slower flame front travel of methanol. That includes transition & midrange!

Properly set-up water cooled gasoline 4-stroke engines can usually tolerate about 36° of total ignition advance @ mid to high RPM. Our small air cooled engines can't take much more than 28° ignition advance on gasoline due to hotter CHT. W/CDI/methanol, the engine will run much cooler than on gasoline (but about 20°F warmer than GI/glow fuel) If you don't want to "sneak up" on an optimal ignition timing setting, an initial setting of 34° BTDC (W/C&H CDI) will be in the ball park for CDI/methanol. Enough advance to make good use of the up to 27% more potential power over gasoline, but still leaving plenty of cusion to prevent detonation.

Start your CDI tuning W/your needles set @ the optimal GI settings. Lean out the HSN a few clicks @ a time allowing 3-5 seconds for the engine to respond. Keep leaning it out. Don't be surprised if you go 1 1/2 turns or more leaner. You will reach a point where the engine will be peaked, but there will be no increase or decrease on RPM as you lean the engine out. You will have perhaps 1/4 turn where there is little or no affect on the peak RPM.

Here is why the engine won't sag after you reach peak RPM & go slightly leaner W/CDI

Unlike GI, CDI will not allow the leaner needle setting to alter ignition timing. When you peak a GI engine you are not only leaning out the A/F ratio, you are also causing a shift/increase in ignition timing advance. That is why, W/GI, you should always back off 200-300 RPM from peak RPM to allow a cushion to prevent detonation. Independant of A/F ratio, any change in ambient temperature, barometric presure or humidity can/will affect the ignition timing W/GI. Absolute maximum power W/stable ignition timing & gasoline will occur @ about 14.5:1 A/F ratio, but the power output @ 12.8:1 A/F ratio will be 98% of what it is @ 14.5:1 stoiciometric A/F ratio maximum power. That is why there is a flat spot W/CDI & peak needle settings. 12.8-13:1 A/F ratios is very safe W/gasoline & leaves some cushion when the ignition timing advance is rock solid as it is W/CDI. Although the A/F ratios are much lower (richer) W/methanol, a similar scenerio happens @ the peak HP settings leaving a "cushion" where A/F ratios are not as critical to peak power when you reach near peak HP/stoiciometric.

Back to the HSN. Go ahead & slowly lean out the engine until it sags, then immediately open the HSN a few clicks. Keep opening the HSN allowing the engine 3-5 seconds to respond. Keep going richer until the engine sags from being too rich, then turn it back in 2 clicks to tye richest peak power setting. Leave the HSN alone @ this point.

Now let the engine idle. Reduce idle speed to the lowest reliable idle & open the throttle wide open to check transition/respsonse. It will most likely sag, then accelerate because it is far too rich on the LSN. Keep leaning the LSN out & checking transition to WOT from idle. As you lean the LSN out keep reducing idle speed to the lowest reliable idle RPM. Don't stop when you get a smooth transtion, but keep leaning out the LSN until the engine stalls out on transition.

Now, go a few clicks richer on the LSN, reduce idle to the lowest reliable RPM & revisit the HSN to see if you are still running on the rich side of maximum RPM.

There is no need to go 200-300 RPM rich (slower) W/CDI. Just get to that maximum rich (12.8:1 A/F ratio) full power setting & leave it alone.

Every Saito engine I have converted to CDI W/glow fuel has gained 5-6% more HP when timed appropriately for methanol fuel. Fuel consumsion has been reduced by 22-25%. (20% improvement in fuel economy) Reliable idle speeds have dropped by 300-400 RPM.

[link=http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/index.htm]HERE IS A CALCULATOR TO COMPARE HP/THRUST GAINS[/link]

[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774802]ILLUSTRATED HOW TO THREAD ON SETTING UP C&H CDI[/link] Post #11 has a table that lists power/fuel economy/reliable idle improvements.

Don't be shy W/the ignition timing & leaning the needles out. When you go to CDI you eliminate the volitile ignition timing of GI. Crank the advance to it & lean her out for best all around performance & fuel economy.

Here is my FA180HC engine running @ 35° advance W/the stock carburetor on 15% Cool Power.. The 12mm carb/ported intake manifold version made another 250 RPM (8450) on 15% CP & a full 8850 RPM W/the same prop W/the 12mm carb running 30% O'Donnell Speed blend fuel.
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xaiAR8Yelc[/youtube]
Old 06-09-2013, 01:02 PM
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blw
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Well, it is a handgun that inspires confidence.
Old 06-09-2013, 01:24 PM
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ORIGINAL: blw

Well, it is a handgun that inspires confidence.
????????????????????????
Old 06-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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Errr..i think he means me? be a bloody good shot to get me from there tho
Old 06-09-2013, 03:19 PM
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Old Fart , liked the 7x57, but I bought a Ruger 270 home from Indochina, loved it my son has it noe.  My favourites were a Sako 338 Winchester magnum (shooting pigs on the Hay plains and Sambur Deer in the Vic Alps and a Remington 7mm magnum, all flat shooting all great.  Oh yes I also had a love for my Miroku over and under 12 g especially when it demolished my ex Brother in laws Hustler trainer.  Didn't know No 4 shot was so effective.  Pity you couldn't ride that bike to Amberley but there is time to reconsider.
Old 06-09-2013, 04:00 PM
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ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

Old Fart , liked the 7x57, but I bought a Ruger 270 home from Indochina, loved it my son has it noe. My favourites were a Sako 338 Winchester magnum (shooting pigs on the Hay plains and Sambur Deer in the Vic Alps and a Remington 7mm magnum, all flat shooting all great. Oh yes I also had a love for my Miroku over and under 12 g especially when it demolished my ex Brother in laws Hustler trainer. Didn't know No 4 shot was so effective. Pity you couldn't ride that bike to Amberley but there is time to reconsider.
My next Mauser will be either 7X57 or 6.5X55. I have another VZ500 action & a small ring/small shank thread 1934 Mexican M98 action. A 6.5X55 '96 Swedish Mauser barrel will screw right into that Mexican action.

What's so nice about the various license built M98s is that even though they were made years apart in differing countries, there is still great parts interchangability. Safeties triggers, barrels, etc will interchange.

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