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Old 08-14-2013, 04:55 AM
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JP, if I could make a suggestion, place an ad in the RCU MarketPlace for about $225.00, it should bring that fairly quickly. People love Saitos.
Old 08-14-2013, 08:08 AM
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I have a Saito 100 mounted horizonatally on a Hangar 9 Katana 50. It kicks and bangs at idle and despite my efforts to lean the idle mixture it still tends to idle very rough and will quit if it idles too long. It is also gobbling up a full tank of fuel on about 8 minutes and there seems to be raw fuel all over the carburator and dripping out of the cowl. I have installed an OS "F" plug as suggested by a couple of people and the engine has just returned from a checkup at Horizon where they said it ran fine. It will stay idling fine with the glow driver attached so it looks like onboard glow will have to be added unless there is something else I can adjust or try. I had a Saito 91 mounted in the same configuration and it would kick and bang the same way.


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Old 08-14-2013, 09:35 AM
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Jaybird,

What do you mean by kick and bang? Bang as in backfire?
Old 08-14-2013, 09:43 AM
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No, it's not a backfire, but it does make a very load pop every couple of revolutions that shakes the whole plane. It's a very rough idle in this position. This engine was previously mounted inverted on another airframe and idled fine with the same OS F plug. It is newly broken in and doesn't have a lot of run time on it.

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Old 08-14-2013, 10:00 AM
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I am not the expert here but from my past experience if I had the low speed needle too rich the engine ran very rough like you describe.
Old 08-14-2013, 10:02 AM
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Can anybody tell me if the Saito 91 is much bigger and heavier than the FA82, or just a bit bigger/heavier? I am building a Hangar 9 Corsair 50 (not the 60) and am wondering if it would work with the 91. I plan on unsing a 3-blade prop on it.
Old 08-14-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
I am not the expert here but from my past experience if I had the low speed needle too rich the engine ran very rough like you describe.
Yes, I've been leaning the idle needle valve and it gets a little better but not relaible. It is screwed way in at this point and fuel seems to be blowing past it and out into the cowling, but I'm not sure.

Jaybird
Old 08-14-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
Can anybody tell me if the Saito 91 is much bigger and heavier than the FA82, or just a bit bigger/heavier? I am building a Hangar 9 Corsair 50 (not the 60) and am wondering if it would work with the 91. I plan on unsing a 3-blade prop on it.
I know the bolt pattern is the same as I've swapped out a 91 in place of an 82. I think the manual has a chart of allthe engine series in the back and gives overall dimensions and possibly weight. I can't access mine at the moment or I'd look it up.

Jaybird
Old 08-14-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaybird
I know the bolt pattern is the same as I've swapped out a 91 in place of an 82. I think the manual has a chart of allthe engine series in the back and gives overall dimensions and possibly weight. I can't access mine at the moment or I'd look it up.

Jaybird
Actually, the 65, 80 and 91 all share the same mounting dimensions. The 50, 56 72 and 82 share the same mounting dimensions, but different than the 65, 80 and 91. The 82 weighs 462g and the 91 weighs 520g, or a little over 2 ounces more than the 82.
Regards,
Jim

Last edited by SRQFlyer; 08-14-2013 at 11:42 AM. Reason: spelling
Old 08-14-2013, 12:12 PM
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That's right, mine was 80 not an 82, sorry.

Jaybird
Old 08-14-2013, 12:48 PM
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Jay, you need to get that 1.00 out of the airplane and onto a test stand where you see it all. Set the HS needle at full peak rpm and leave it there, then throttle down to the lowest idle you can get and procede to lean the LS 1/8th turn at a time checking the transition after every other change. Also keep chasing the throttle downward as the idle improves. At some point the engine will hesitate when opening the throttle, turn the LS CCW 1/16th to 1/8th turn, be willing to sacrifice a few idle rpm for the best transition.
Old 08-14-2013, 01:15 PM
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Agreed and it will be set up horizontally so I can reproduce the environment it will be operating in. It ran fine inverted but there is something about the fuel flow it doesn't like laying on it's side.

Thanks for the help and let you know how it works out.

Jaybird
Old 08-14-2013, 01:29 PM
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jaybird, consider the following, air leaks, fuel tank position relative to the carby and general crap in the fuel (long shot). on the 65 comp engines we frequently split the fuel line ends (pulling them on and off to confirm fuel levels). considering horizon had no problems (taking them at their word?) it could well be the installation.
Old 08-14-2013, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Jay, you need to get that 1.00 out of the airplane and onto a test stand where you see it all. Set the HS needle at full peak rpm and leave it there, then throttle down to the lowest idle you can get and procede to lean the LS 1/8th turn at a time checking the transition after every other change. Also keep chasing the throttle downward as the idle improves. At some point the engine will hesitate when opening the throttle, turn the LS CCW 1/16th to 1/8th turn, be willing to sacrifice a few idle rpm for the best transition.
I would like to vouch for and recommend this technique!!!
Old 08-14-2013, 02:00 PM
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just fyi to all I worked on a Saito 180 that had been sitting for a long while. we pulled the prop hub and found rusty bearings. we also found the con rod seized on the crank shaft. the con rod will have to be replaced. the bearings will have to be done too.

my question to the gentry is how do we tell what engine this is? 120,150,180. do we measure bore and stroke? Are all the con rods the same? FYI, piston, ring, cylinder all look good.

symptom was that the engine kept dead stick - ing. then when landed the prop was hard to turn
Old 08-14-2013, 02:28 PM
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assuming you have done all the usuals, bearings etc check and ensure that the crankshaft bearings are properly bedded. you might not believe it but one can get the alignment of the bearings skewed and even 1 degree misalignment can case the sort of problems you are talking about.
depending on the series bore size is a good start to check engine size. problem i find with these engines is that capacity is usually varied by the size of the con rod which leads to other interesting situations. the best one i had was an os 20 fourstroke that went like a bat out of hell, couldn't figure why but it was good in comps, (i had bought it second hand). when i pulled it down i found it had os26 fourstroke car bits inside.
use the factory part numbers when replacing bits and you should be ok.
Old 08-14-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
assuming you have done all the usuals, bearings etc check and ensure that the crankshaft bearings are properly bedded. you might not believe it but one can get the alignment of the bearings skewed and even 1 degree misalignment can case the sort of problems you are talking about.
depending on the series bore size is a good start to check engine size. problem i find with these engines is that capacity is usually varied by the size of the con rod which leads to other interesting situations. the best one i had was an os 20 fourstroke that went like a bat out of hell, couldn't figure why but it was good in comps, (i had bought it second hand). when i pulled it down i found it had os26 fourstroke car bits inside.
use the factory part numbers when replacing bits and you should be ok.
right on. I checked saitoengines.info and found that each has a different bore and stroke. I will have them measure the piston to see what size it is.
Old 08-14-2013, 05:08 PM
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http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/Larg...der_Manual.pdf

Scoll down to page 15 and check out dimension E
Old 08-14-2013, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/Larg...der_Manual.pdf

Scoll down to page 15 and check out dimension E
So I can use the top to bottom overall dimension to tell. Valve covers to bottom of crank case.

Last edited by jkr_1100; 08-14-2013 at 07:08 PM.
Old 08-14-2013, 07:01 PM
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One more Hobbsy.

I just put new bearings in the FA-50. When putting it back together i put the dot on the cam gear down, when the crank is at TDC. Is this correct?

Bearings from RCBearing.com $11 plus a couple for shipping. I think $15.88 and here in less than a week. I always recommend rcbearings.com.
Old 08-15-2013, 04:35 AM
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I am a Boca fan, but we'll leave that alone, yes you timed it correctly and yes the dimension from valve cover top to crankcase bottom will tell you which engine is which. You have to have a good eye to tell the 1.50 from the 1.80. I may check out my 1.50 and see if the bore can accurately be measured with the back plate removed.

BOCA is a sponsor of this site so we need to take good care of them, their prices nearly equal that other guys with a coupon and free shipping.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 08-15-2013 at 04:37 AM. Reason: Add content.
Old 08-15-2013, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I am a Boca fan, but we'll leave that alone, yes you timed it correctly and yes the dimension from valve cover top to crankcase bottom will tell you which engine is which. You have to have a good eye to tell the 1.50 from the 1.80. I may check out my 1.50 and see if the bore can accurately be measured with the back plate removed.

BOCA is a sponsor of this site so we need to take good care of them, their prices nearly equal that other guys with a coupon and free shipping.
Hobbsy, I didn't realize that Boca has a product for the same price. they had a set for the Saito FA-50 for $11.88.
Old 08-15-2013, 07:45 PM
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I ran the Saito FA50 today. Its like having a new engine.
Old 08-16-2013, 03:46 AM
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Great news.
Old 08-16-2013, 06:56 AM
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I have an old version Saito 90 twin that needs new bearings. Is there anything special I need to do with the twin? I'm assuming there are marks to set the timing.

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