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Old 11-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #25676  
SrTelemaster150
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http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ffler-k-SAIE09
Old 11-18-2013, 04:11 PM
  #25677  
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Default Saito Valve Lash Experiment

MORE on Saito Valve lash.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow...l#post11665668
Old 11-18-2013, 05:00 PM
  #25678  
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Originally Posted by Pete Bergstrom
Mike - Actually the 91S is still being manufactured and available new.

The 91 and 115 share pretty much the same case and bolt pattern. The saito 100 and 125 share pretty much the same case and bolt pattern.

Pete
Pete, so the 115 is essentially a bored out 91? Are the cylinder and piston the only differences?

The 91 I just purchased is brand new, never saw fuel. But it is missing the muffler and header pipe.
Old 11-18-2013, 06:30 PM
  #25679  
blw
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Those parts are $33.25 at Advantage Hobby.
Old 11-18-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
Pete, so the 115 is essentially a bored out 91? Are the cylinder and piston the only differences?

The 91 I just purchased is brand new, never saw fuel. But it is missing the muffler and header pipe.

It looks like the FA115 & the FA91S, while sharing the same stroke, they use a different conrod. You might be able to machine the case for the 115 jug, the crank may well have a bigger journal. The prop shaft on the 115 is 8mm while the 91S is 7mm.

The valve train, except possibly the valves, in all probability should interchange. In short, with some machine work you could have an FA115 on the FA91S case. It would not have the bigger prop shaft, & you might have to bush the big end of the rod. It might be an opportunity to build a high compression FA115HC & run it on spark & nitro/methanol, but the 7mm prop shaft would be heavily taxed W/that much HP.
Old 11-18-2013, 08:07 PM
  #25681  
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G'day Pete. Thanks for setting me straight. The 91 disappeared here (Australia) some time ago and the 91S must be a more recent version. You have to give it to Saito - 30, 40, 56, 62, 72, 82, 91, 100, 115, 125, 150, 180, 220. They really fill the gaps.

I really like the fact that the 56, 62, 72 and 82 will all fit the same mount. Other dimensions may vary but it does make it easy to swap engines in general.

Cheers

Mike
Old 11-18-2013, 08:32 PM
  #25682  
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All the Saito 91 engines are called 91S
Old 11-18-2013, 11:53 PM
  #25683  
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Mike the 91s is still available from your friendly / oo operative hobby shop operator. HHQ I believe still has them
Old 11-19-2013, 02:01 AM
  #25684  
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G'day. Interesting that they have kept the 91 with the 82 and the 100 so close in size. From what I remember, the 65 and the 91 were part of a series of engines that were phased out but it seems I was wrong. The dear old 65 was a great, if heavy, beast with its brass chromed liner. I had three at one time. The last one I bought was one of the last sold before they became extinct. I bought it to put in an ARF Kadet Senior for the simple reason that it was in the right power range AND it was heavy which I hoped would balance the Kadet. It did. No lead was required.

I am currently becoming acquainted with all my Saitos again. We are about to move from Dubbo to Canberra. My wife has now retired and she wants to be nearer family in Canberra. Grandchildren have a very strong gravitational attraction. So now I am removing engines from my models, cleaning them, oiling them and putting them to bed for a while. Moving the engines will be easy. Moving the models will be a pain in the posterior extremity.

Cheers

Mike in Oz
Old 11-19-2013, 05:16 AM
  #25685  
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Originally Posted by mike109
G'day Pete. Thanks for setting me straight. The 91 disappeared here (Australia) some time ago and the 91S must be a more recent version. You have to give it to Saito - 30, 40, 56, 62, 72, 82, 91, 100, 115, 125, 150, 180, 220. They really fill the gaps.

I really like the fact that the 56, 62, 72 and 82 will all fit the same mount. Other dimensions may vary but it does make it easy to swap engines in general.

Cheers

Mike

Unfortunately the FA30, FA56, FA62 & FA220 are no longer available in the States. Furthemore Saito has abandoned the large multi-cylinder glow engines in lieu of gas only. There are no longer any FA300 twins (either version) & FA450R3D..
Old 11-19-2013, 05:19 AM
  #25686  
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Originally Posted by mike109
G'day. Interesting that they have kept the 91 with the 82 and the 100 so close in size. From what I remember, the 65 and the 91 were part of a series of engines that were phased out but it seems I was wrong.
Cheers

Mike in Oz
The FA91 also shares some reciprocating components & valve train W/the FA182T & FA200Ti.
Old 11-19-2013, 05:47 AM
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G'day SrT

Sad to hear that some Saitos are disappearing. Wonder how long it will be before they start making electric motors?

The way things are heading, anything above about 150 size is being powered by petrol (gasser) engines and the smaller sizes up to about 60 are becoming the domain of the electric motor.

I have enough Saitos to keep me happy for quite a few years but lately, new members are opting for electric powered trainers and even older members of our club are starting to drift in that direction too. I even have converted one of my beloved Kadet Seniors to electric. I may have to go into exile for this.

I am particularly sad to see the 56 and 62 size Saitos disappear int he US. They are my favourite Saitos. My oldest Saito is a 56 which is now about 20 years old and still going strong. Hobbsy was right - it is perfect in my small Space Walker. My three 62s are my next most used engines. One in a Kadet Senior which gets a lot of use, one in a Kadet LT-40 and one "resting between engagements" in its box.

We are also seeing a new phenomenon here - the Hobby King phenomenon. People see the extremely low prices that HK charge and won't spend more on quality engines like Saito. Pity. My Saitos start easily, don't deadstick and are very long lasting.

Mike in Oz
Old 11-19-2013, 08:59 AM
  #25688  
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I bought a gently used Saito 1.80 about 10 yrs ago then quit the hobby until about a yr ago. Have kept it lubed with Marvel Mystery Oil (any old timers remember this stuff? - I still have almost a quart) Have a Dynaflite Super Decathlon framed up now with the big Saito up front. Anybody have this combo? Anybody have recommendations or suggestions before I start this engine up?
Old 11-19-2013, 10:46 AM
  #25689  
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Horizon is in the process of changing from the FA-56 and FA-62 to the new A models of those engines. The FA-56A and FA-62A engines are listed, but there is no data on the website yet. The techs don't know what's going to be changed yet.
Old 11-19-2013, 01:12 PM
  #25690  
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The Saito 91S is still a very compact engine. It is actually smaller than the Fox 74, SK90, and ASP90 that I own. And that is without including the big 2-stroke mufflers. So, I think it will still do a good job pulling that 7.5 lb plane I will install it on. If it can turn a 14x8 or 15x6 at 9000+ rpm's, it would do better than the 2-stroke 90 I was running in it before.

I don't think I will attempt any machining work on it to get it to a 115. My self-imposed rule is any engine above 15cc (2 or 4-stroke) will be a gasser. Any plane below .40 c.i. will be electric. To be honest, I was already determined not to buy any more glow engines until this 91S "fell on my lap" at a good price. I also don't plan on having more than the 2 electric park flyers that I already have. If I just get the existing projects done, I will still be busy flying and maintaining what I already have. I am limited in storage space now. Any new plane will have to replace an older plane, whether I sell it or crash it. But any new plane will more likely be a bit larger since my vision is not as good as it used to be. So this Saito 91S fits into my big Master Plan.
Old 11-19-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
The Saito 91S is still a very compact engine. It is actually smaller than the Fox 74, SK90, and ASP90 that I own. And that is without including the big 2-stroke mufflers. So, I think it will still do a good job pulling that 7.5 lb plane I will install it on. If it can turn a 14x8 or 15x6 at 9000+ rpm's, it would do better than the 2-stroke 90 I was running in it before.

I don't think I will attempt any machining work on it to get it to a 115. My self-imposed rule is any engine above 15cc (2 or 4-stroke) will be a gasser. Any plane below .40 c.i. will be electric. To be honest, I was already determined not to buy any more glow engines until this 91S "fell on my lap" at a good price. I also don't plan on having more than the 2 electric park flyers that I already have. If I just get the existing projects done, I will still be busy flying and maintaining what I already have. I am limited in storage space now. Any new plane will have to replace an older plane, whether I sell it or crash it. But any new plane will more likely be a bit larger since my vision is not as good as it used to be. So this Saito 91S fits into my big Master Plan.
My FA91S burning 15% Cool Power W/CDI turns a 15X5 @ 9700 RPM. On GI it turns about 200 RPM less. A 15X6 should turn about 9000 RPM W/GI.

Here are some tests that include GI baseline performance. (post # 11)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774802
Old 11-19-2013, 02:41 PM
  #25692  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
My FA91S burning 15% Cool Power W/CDI turns a 15X5 @ 9700 RPM. On GI it turns about 200 RPM less. A 15X6 should turn about 9000 RPM W/GI.

Here are some tests that include GI baseline performance. (post # 11)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774802
That's good news. That is about what I was getting on the 90 2-stroke.
Old 11-19-2013, 05:36 PM
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I did some weighing to compare the Saito 91S with some of my engines.
SK90 with stock muffler = 28 oz.
Fox74 with stock muffler = 22 oz
Saito 91S with muffler = 20 oz.
Thunder Tiger 75FS with Turboheader muffler and adapter = 20 oz.

So, the Saito 91S is on the lighter end of the engines I own. I have my FA-82A installed on a plane, so I couldn't weigh it. The FA-91S is only slightly larger visibly than the FA-82A.
Old 11-19-2013, 06:51 PM
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Barry, my guess that they'll look like this .82B only slightly smaller.
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:28 PM
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I had a 82B that I made from a "A". Glenn has it now. He keeps throwing the prop because he runs it too lean.
Old 11-19-2013, 07:29 PM
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Lean, makes em mean.

Jim, is the one I pictured a newer B. Thanks, Dave
Old 11-19-2013, 09:23 PM
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Yes, the one in the picture it is a "B"

Glenn is a friend of BLW's
Old 11-19-2013, 11:07 PM
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Wow, a lot of conversation about the FA-91S. I like 'em but, due to a stupid mistake, I lost the last one in a in wreck.
The latest one was a gift from a seasoned veteran of the RC battles who has thinned his fleet to just two of his favorite birds. This engine had a few damaged parts but, they were easily replaced and now it's ready to power my Intruder 90 as soon as I get it recovered.
One of my FA-80s is still powering my H9 Fokker DVII and I need to give it some exercise now that contest season is over. My other FA-80 is in a box waiting for an airframe. I've been looking for one to put it on but, haven't made up my mind which one deserves this great engine.
I've got lots to do this winter in the way of repairs, tweaks, and builds and I need to get serious about it all. Our flying season here in Texas doesn't really end but, we do have to dodge the rain drops now and again.

RJ
Old 11-20-2013, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Unfortunately the FA30, FA56, FA62 & FA220 are no longer available in the States. Furthemore Saito has abandoned the large multi-cylinder glow engines in lieu of gas only. There are no longer any FA300 twins (either version) & FA450R3D..
It is not correct that Saito has abandoned the large multi-cylinder glow engines. I was in a hobby shop in Tokyo last weekend and saw a FA450RD on sale. The Saito company
is still making marketing both the FA-300 twin and the FA450RD; they are listed in their catalog and I saw them on display at the Saito booth at the Tokyo Hobby show last September.
Old 11-20-2013, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bjw4072
It is not correct that Saito has abandoned the large multi-cylinder glow engines. I was in a hobby shop in Tokyo last weekend and saw a FA450RD on sale. The Saito company
is still making marketing both the FA-300 twin and the FA450RD; they are listed in their catalog and I saw them on display at the Saito booth at the Tokyo Hobby show last September.
Horizon Hobby has listed those & as well as all the 3 cylinder radials & inline "V" twins as "discontinued" so good luck getting any of them in the States. As usual, the US market over reacts & everyone is jumping on the "GAS" bandwagon.

IMO it's unfortunate that Saito never offered CDI versions for methanol use. A LOT more power than gas & less smell & fire hazard.

ALL of my Saito engines are now converted to CDI burning methanol. My FA200Ti W/CDI will run over 70% longer on a given amount of fuel over GI.


http://www.horizonhobby.com/webapp/w...0/:cp=1/:ip=9/:

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 11-20-2013 at 04:19 AM.

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