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Old 11-27-2013, 05:03 PM
  #25801  
SrTelemaster150
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Not sure what is up W/these prices but the FG84R3 pistons are dirt cheap from HH. I bought the last 2 a few days ago. They are in transit "as we speak".

http://www.horizonhobby.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?searchKeyword=saig84r306&searchType=productgrid


Here is the Advantage price.

http://www.advantagehobby.com/245520/SAIG84R306/

The FG57T pistons have a skirt that is just a bit too long to use in my FA512R3 hybrid so I was going to buy one FG84R3 piston just to see if the compression hieght differed from the FA180 or FG57T (the FG57T has .016" taller compression hieght than the FA180) & perhaps if it (SAIGR306) had a shorter skirt. All 3 use the FA180 ring.

When I realized how cheap they were I tried to buy 3 but all they had was 2. Hopefully the price will hold until I can get a 3rd if they differ from the FG57.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 11-27-2013 at 05:05 PM.
Old 11-28-2013, 12:15 AM
  #25802  
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Old Fart Dragon (in this case) is a voice over control program that allows you to talk to your computer (as we all do from time to time) and get it to translate words into print. Actually a very good device. The Storch is "a pretty a/c" diong minor aerobatics and it will be used to annoy our local war birds guys when I put the scale WW 2 german assault glider behind it. Glad you agree I have a 115 and access to a 125 if I decide to go that way. Been playing with 1:1's today, wedge tails and orions and cheyennes. Good fun very sore shoulder but it was worth it.
Old 11-28-2013, 05:24 AM
  #25803  
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you lazy so and so here's lots of people thinking you were going to all that trouble to type good fun flying with the wedgies eh? ive yet to see a better pilot at the field and they fly good formation.If they drank beer and stood at the bar telling good stories afterwards it would be perfect you can come over any time you feel like it and tow a large glider thru the heli's on any sunday you like.
Old 11-28-2013, 09:49 AM
  #25804  
Charley
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Originally Posted by NM2K View Post
CR, which oil and how much, please?
Ed Cregger
Hi Ed,

Guess I missed something. I ran Klotz Super Techniplate at 16:1 gas to oil. Here's the Tower URL: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXS622&P=ML

Note that this blend is 20% castor, will mix with gas, methanol and nitro.

CR
Old 11-29-2013, 11:37 PM
  #25805  
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Ok you lot how come no one has mentioned the new gas engine based on the 62. One of our club bright sparks is in the process of acquiring one from HHQ.
Old 11-30-2013, 05:00 AM
  #25806  
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Probably because the 62 glow barely flies a 46 decathlon at scale performance.Only God and hobbsy would dare to fly one with a gas 62,trust me let us know what it's like to run in ok?
Old 11-30-2013, 05:12 AM
  #25807  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
Probably because the 62 glow barely flies a 46 decathlon at scale performance.Only God and hobbsy would dare to fly one with a gas 62,trust me let us know what it's like to run in ok?
With the usual 15% drop in HP over the GI versions that Saito FG engines suffer, power will be about the same as an FA50 @ .85HP.
Old 11-30-2013, 06:02 AM
  #25808  
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Yes he would Pete.
Old 11-30-2013, 01:26 PM
  #25809  
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Originally Posted by Charley View Post
Hi Ed,

Guess I missed something. I ran Klotz Super Techniplate at 16:1 gas to oil. Here's the Tower URL: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXS622&P=ML

Note that this blend is 20% castor, will mix with gas, methanol and nitro.

CR
This brings up the point that the biggest cost in the fuel is the oil, regardless whether it is glow or spark ignition. True that gas consumption rate is much lower than methanol, but a gasser with high oil requirement will not save $$$ nearly as much as an engine with roller bearing conrods. Why don't engine manufacturers sell glow engines with roller bearing conrods? It would cost more up front, but save a lot of $$$ in the long run, just like gas engines with roller bearing conrods. Heck, a glow engine with the added roller bearing cost can't cost more to manufacture than a gasser with roller bearing conrods PLUS ignition PLUS pumper carb.
Old 11-30-2013, 02:00 PM
  #25810  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
This brings up the point that the biggest cost in the fuel is the oil, regardless whether it is glow or spark ignition. True that gas consumption rate is much lower than methanol, but a gasser with high oil requirement will not save $$$ nearly as much as an engine with roller bearing conrods. Why don't engine manufacturers sell glow engines with roller bearing conrods? It would cost more up front, but save a lot of $$$ in the long run, just like gas engines with roller bearing conrods. Heck, a glow engine with the added roller bearing cost can't cost more to manufacture than a gasser with roller bearing conrods PLUS ignition PLUS pumper carb.
Pretty sure the roller bearings and con rod changes would weigh enough to have a significant negative effect on the engine performance, regardless of fuel. We won't even begin to swagestimate the added manufacturing cost of those tiny rollers or the added assembly costs.
Old 11-30-2013, 08:41 PM
  #25811  
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Actually Old Fart it isn't me that is getting it but the guy in our club who is all conquering in east coast O/T events. Cost reputed to be around $400. All this discussion about how bad the gas engines are (Saito) is disturbing until you try to buy one and there are few to be found let alone purchased and the HHQ back order list will keep them in short supply for some time, price be dammed. Yes I'll keep you up to date and when it comes to flying the gas engines I'll be joining the line up in the new year.
Old 11-30-2013, 09:52 PM
  #25812  
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I have an older Saito FA-91 that I have taken apart for a rebuild. This is not the FA-91S. Although I have discovered some difficulty in finding all the parts I need in one location, which may not be a bad thing, I have heard a rumor that many of the parts for the FA-91 and the FA-91S are interchangeable. Is this true??? Many of the parts that I need are "Out of Stock" at Horizon Hobbies. Where do you Saito "Mechanics" find parts for this engine?
Thank you,
Perry
Old 11-30-2013, 09:58 PM
  #25813  
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I got my latest batch here ....http://www.advantagehobby.com/?cat=3...id=244&page=31

RJ
Old 12-01-2013, 04:30 AM
  #25814  
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Originally Posted by rowdyjoe View Post
Advantage pulls Saito parts directly from Horizon's stock. If Horizon is out of stock, so is Advantage.
Old 12-01-2013, 03:21 PM
  #25815  
Charley
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
This brings up the point that the biggest cost in the fuel is the oil, regardless whether it is glow or spark ignition. True that gas consumption rate is much lower than methanol, but a gasser with high oil requirement will not save $$$ nearly as much as an engine with roller bearing conrods. Why don't engine manufacturers sell glow engines with roller bearing conrods? It would cost more up front, but save a lot of $$$ in the long run, just like gas engines with roller bearing conrods. Heck, a glow engine with the added roller bearing cost can't cost more to manufacture than a gasser with roller bearing conrods PLUS ignition PLUS pumper carb.
The oil content for gas is not as high as for methanol. A 16:1 gas to oil mix is 2oz oil to 32 oz of gas. Klotz Super Techniplate oil is currently $13.69 a quart at Tower Hobbies, so 2oz costs about 85 cents. Currently, reg gas is ~$3.10 a gallon where I live. So I can mix up a gallon of fuel to run in my Saito 1.5 for ~$3.95. Huh! Maybe I should put the CDI back in the airplane and replumb the tank.

CR

Last edited by Charley; 12-01-2013 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Quirk in the software
Old 12-01-2013, 03:27 PM
  #25816  
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On the bearing thing, been there tried that no real advantage given the work entailed and wouldn't do it again HOWEVER ceramic pistons etc are well worth the investment in the pursuit of power but the easiest and simplest is to juggle nitro and oil content (including varying viscosity levels) until you get what you want.
Old 12-01-2013, 04:09 PM
  #25817  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria View Post
This brings up the point that the biggest cost in the fuel is the oil, regardless whether it is glow or spark ignition. True that gas consumption rate is much lower than methanol, but a gasser with high oil requirement will not save $$$ nearly as much as an engine with roller bearing conrods. Why don't engine manufacturers sell glow engines with roller bearing conrods? It would cost more up front, but save a lot of $$$ in the long run, just like gas engines with roller bearing conrods. Heck, a glow engine with the added roller bearing cost can't cost more to manufacture than a gasser with roller bearing conrods PLUS ignition PLUS pumper carb.
Again oil content can be cut nearly in half & nitro completely eliminated when CDI is employed W/methanol mixes. Klotz is $39.99 a gallon from SIG W/no hazmat fee required. Combine another $11 of product for free shipping.

$40 for a gallon of Klotz, 9 gallons of methanol (I can't source it locally but any large city will have sources for bulk) for about $23 & you have 10 gallons of fuel 10% lube mix for $63.


Straight methanol mix will not be as stingy as gasoline but it will use a lot less than nitro mixes. About double the fuel economy as say 15% nitro W/GI.

The $100 for a quality plug & play CDI sytem will soon be paid for in fuel savings.
Old 12-01-2013, 04:31 PM
  #25818  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150 View Post
Again oil content can be cut nearly in half & nitro completely eliminated when CDI is employed W/methanol mixes.
I understand why the nitro can be eliminated. But it puzzles me how you can lower the oil content. Not disputing you or even questioning you about that. Just curious about that.

Ken
Old 12-01-2013, 05:15 PM
  #25819  
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Originally Posted by flyingagin View Post
I understand why the nitro can be eliminated. But it puzzles me how you can lower the oil content. Not disputing you or even questioning you about that. Just curious about that.

Ken
CDI brings stable ignition timing to the table eliminating a variable that requires extra protection W/more lube. W/a "properly" tuned GI engine, this extra lube is not really needed, but if the mixture is adjusted too lean, the ignition event will advance causing all sorts of problems. Backfiring & spitting props due to detonation is an idication of this. Manufacturers must make recomendations taking the "lowest common denominator" into account.

Here is an article written by Ray McDougal on the subject of CDI/methanol & oil requirements. http://www.raysmodels.ca/Technical%20Tips/Spark%20ignition.doc
Old 12-01-2013, 05:23 PM
  #25820  
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Ok now I get it. Thanks. Is it safe to assume the same for 2 strokes?

Ken
Old 12-01-2013, 08:40 PM
  #25821  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150 View Post
SNIP

Manufacturers must make recomendations taking the "lowest common denominator" into account.
HEY! I resemble that remark!
Old 12-01-2013, 09:59 PM
  #25822  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150 View Post

Here is an article written by Ray McDougal on the subject of CDI/methanol & oil requirements. http://www.raysmodels.ca/Technical%20Tips/Spark%20ignition.doc
Read the above linked article. It should be noted that the author still runs 14% oil in his methanol mix. That's still a lot more than 16:1 in a gas mix. Let's get this straight: 16:1 is 6.25% oil. Lots less than you can get away with in a bushing engine on methanol.

CR
Old 12-01-2013, 10:53 PM
  #25823  
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Jim i take offence,i resemble that remark way more than you do and will double up by adding brute force and ignorance in huge measures.

But seriously,you see this happen time and again where people spend lots of money to save lots of money? guess i'm stuck with brute force(nitro)
Old 12-02-2013, 06:54 AM
  #25824  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
Jim i take offence,i resemble that remark way more than you do and will double up by adding brute force and ignorance in huge measures.

But seriously,you see this happen time and again where people spend lots of money to save lots of money? guess i'm stuck with brute force(nitro)
O.F. The warm oil spitting out of the exhaust on my hands has a therapeutic effect, especially on cold days.

I'm not sure that I fly a specific airplane/engine combo to get enough use to justify the up front cost of spark ignition on smaller engines. On the bigger gassers, 20cc+, it makes a lot of sense. And those bigger engines use much less oil to save $$$.
Old 12-02-2013, 07:41 AM
  #25825  
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Originally Posted by PSB View Post
I have an older Saito FA-91 that I have taken apart for a rebuild. This is not the FA-91S. Although I have discovered some difficulty in finding all the parts I need in one location, which may not be a bad thing, I have heard a rumor that many of the parts for the FA-91 and the FA-91S are interchangeable. Is this true??? Many of the parts that I need are "Out of Stock" at Horizon Hobbies. Where do you Saito "Mechanics" find parts for this engine?
Thank you,
Perry
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