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Old 04-27-2014, 06:51 PM
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Jim i don't worry to much about gaskets when i do a bearing set.The cam cover gasket you can make from a glossy magazine cover if it is damaged,then i just check the o rings.If all looks good reassemble and fly it.
Old 04-27-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Jim i don't worry to much about gaskets when i do a bearing set.The cam cover gasket you can make from a glossy magazine cover if it is damaged,then i just check the o rings.If all looks good reassemble and fly it.
+1
Old 04-28-2014, 01:37 AM
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I try to keep a gasket set around as you sometimes will find the need to replace a damaged one. As a rule I don't replace the gaskets if they look serviceable. These engines aren't designed to be oil tight anyway. More important are the distances/clearances determined by the gaskets such as on the cam cover & backplate. "O" rings should always be inspected & replaced if needed.

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Old 04-28-2014, 03:47 AM
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Saito/Bowman Ring Lubrication?

I'm about to switch some of my Saito engines over to Frank Bowman Rings.


The minimum ring gap spec for stock Saito rings in the FA-180 & FA-300T engines that I am working on is .012" & .0095" respectively.


Frank recommends .002" ring gap. While I'm not concerned W/ ring seizure at that spec, I wonder if there will be enough oil blow-by to keep the bottom end lubed.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 04-28-2014 at 03:49 AM.
Old 04-28-2014, 04:01 AM
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Dan, I'm sure that the oil getting through the ring gap is not entirely responsible for the oil in the crankcase. Plenty will blow past the ring during compression and ignition and exhaust. I haven't had enough coffee yet, can't type yet. I am big fan of Bowman Rings.

JB, here is the alternate source I used.
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Airpl...ne&Item=satprt Navigating it is a nightmare but doable. Lanz Hobbies is its real name.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 04-28-2014 at 04:05 AM.
Old 04-28-2014, 04:07 AM
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Ha! Hobbsy beat me to the keyboard. I too am working on shutting down the "Caffiene Low" light on the instrument panel.

I have been using Bowman rings for years, and in fact some replace rings in new engines with his right off the bat for better performance.

Here's what experience and training taught me: Oil lube to the bottom end is not making it's way through the ring gap since when at temp that should be essentially closed. The gap spec is to have enough spacing cold so you allow for that growth when running.

Your lube to the bottom end should result from what remains on the cylinder wall as the ring slides past and the minute amount of combustion gasses that find their way through the same path, (it is the contaminants from combustion and unburnt fuel remaining in the case that promote corrosion when sitting). You need some oil to remain on the wall to minimize ring and piston/liner wear. It also helps promote a better seal.

While in the auto trade I remember many different ring designs. Some were low drag and needed the high combustion pressure to deform/expand the ring to seal. During the other 3 cycles of intake, compression and exhaust the ring relaxed quite a lot.

Last edited by Cougar429; 04-28-2014 at 04:09 AM.
Old 04-28-2014, 04:21 AM
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Cougar, I know this is mentioning another brand but I did that very thing with a new Webra sleeve and piston set. It simply would not make any compression, very little would be more accurate. A Bowman ring cured that instantly even without any break in. I have yet to install a Bowman ring in a Saito.
Old 04-28-2014, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
Ha! Hobbsy beat me to the keyboard. I too am working on shutting down the "Caffiene Low" light on the instrument panel.

I have been using Bowman rings for years, and in fact some replace rings in new engines with his right off the bat for better performance.

The gap spec is to have enough spacing cold so you allow for that growth when running.


.
Not wanting to sound like I'm arguing, but my Saito 4-stroke manual cites adequate ring gap as necessary for bottom end lubrication.

I find it puzzling that the Saito spec of .012" for the FA-150 is the same as much larger 3 7/16" bore of an iron cylinder Harley Panhead.

.012" is way more than what is necessary for heat expansion in the 1.34" bore of the FA-150. I was always taught that .003" minimum ring gap for each inch of bore.

Franks .002" spec is close to those guide lines, especially when the expansion coefficient of the aluminum cylinder compared to the iron ring is considered, but it's way tighter that the Saito spec.
Old 04-28-2014, 08:25 AM
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I got a Bowman ring for my .Saito 65. I have to collect set of bearings first before rebuild. So I am also interested in this discussion.


Ken
Old 04-28-2014, 12:36 PM
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This would be your bearings. I have a set in a 1.00 and in an Irvine .40. The "each" means each set and so far I've gotten free shipping.

http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-...saito-fa-65-65
Old 04-28-2014, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
This would be your bearings. I have a set in a 1.00 and in an Irvine .40. The "each" means each set and so far I've gotten free shipping.

http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-...saito-fa-65-65
Thanks Hobbsy

The engine resides in a Kadet SR. It has given me good and long service. Are the standard good choice or should I step up to Stainless Steel

Ken
Old 04-28-2014, 03:20 PM
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Bowman rings, could some one give me contact details please
Old 04-28-2014, 03:52 PM
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I think this is it [email protected]


Ken, there is a lot of disagreement concerning stainless bearing, apparently they are softer and not as durable.
Old 04-28-2014, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Bowman rings, could some one give me contact details please
I think this is it

Bowman’s Rings

Email: [email protected]

Ken
Old 04-28-2014, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I think this is it [email protected]


Ken, there is a lot of disagreement concerning stainless bearing, apparently they are softer and not as durable.
Ahh now I would never have guessed that thanks I will get the regular ones and spend 1/2 as much. Way cool thanks

Ken
Old 04-28-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I think this is it [email protected]


Ken, there is a lot of disagreement concerning stainless bearing, apparently they are softer and not as durable.

I don't like stainless for knife blades either! Give me good ol' hard carbon steel.
Old 04-28-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
I don't like stainless for knife blades either! Give me good ol' hard carbon steel.
Makes sense
for <1/2 as much as stainless I will get these http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-...gs/econo-power
Love my little 65. It has never failed me with good fuel and plug. I have no ideal how many hours are on it but there are a lot. Rebuilt the plane once, now it the engines turn

Ken
Old 04-28-2014, 05:52 PM
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No argument here either.Fit whatever bearings you like,it's been my experience that it's more important to run after oil thru the engine at the end of the days flying than what the bearing is made out of.My 182 twin has the original factory bearings and zero play after lots of hours over four years.My 82's have chewed thru a couple of sets because i got lazy and left one for a few days with no aro in it,rust never sleeps.
Old 04-28-2014, 08:07 PM
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Hey Dan, I'm not near a manual right now. Is that a recent manual. Interesting.
Old 05-03-2014, 01:39 PM
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So I fired up my 6 year old Saito 2.20 nitro today. First time this year and it ran great. WOT was 7400 rpm. Idle was 2200. Xoar 20 x 8 prop. Can't ***** about that. I wish I could find another 2.20 like this one!
Old 05-04-2014, 03:27 PM
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On the on going saga of my new workshop. Un packed another box and I now have found 2x Enya 41 fourstrokes (1 x diesel), 1 x OS 20 and 1 x OS 26 2x YS 63's, 1 x YS 53 fourstrokes and best of all 1x Saito 30, (NIB) 1x Saito 50, 1x Saito 56 (NIB), 2 x Saito 65s, 1 x Saito 62 (NIB) 1x Saito 82 (NIB), 1 x Saito 115 (NIB) AND 1 x Saito FG20 (NIB) and 1 x Saito FG 36 (NIB). And there are more boxes to come. Lots of Supre Tigre and Rossie 2 strokes plus who knows what. Heaven in another form.
Old 05-04-2014, 04:08 PM
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Want to sell me that .82??
Old 05-04-2014, 04:11 PM
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I'd like another 62 and a 63 PLEASE !!!

T-man49 in Al
Club Saito 723
Old 05-05-2014, 12:44 AM
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Dibs on the 115...
Old 05-05-2014, 02:18 PM
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I am always interested in trading engines but none of the Saito listed are on offer at this time. However I am looking for 65's and open rocker 40's in good order at reasonable prices for friends if any one has any for sale.

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