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Old 05-29-2014, 03:30 AM
  #26601  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Respect brother,did you use the standard control throws or heaps more?
I went as per the book. It seems to be lively even with low rates The thrust lines need to be readjusted. The wingloading isn't an issue of any kind as the model isn't a 3d plane anyways and the FA-125a is a very light engine, 620g + muffler. The engine burns about 5,5 fl oz or 1,7ml during a 5 min flight. I may be able to tweak the LS needle a bit once I have abit more time on the engine. I have also the CH Ignitions CDI conversion kit on the shelf waiting for the engine to be completely run-in to be able to carry out side-by-side comparison between the GI and CDI. I'm not planning to run the engine on gas, at least at this stage
I'm also interested in seeing if I can run the engine on 0% nitro and 8-10 % oil (Aerosave) to see if I can minimize the oil residue to wipe off at the end of the day.
Old 05-29-2014, 06:26 PM
  #26602  
rafeeki
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Default Saito FA 180 inverted??

Originally Posted by Flyer95
Hi, Have had a Saito 120, but for now only a NIB 82 and a 180. Both the 120 &180 has been easy starter. I never used a starter on them, only one or two backflips needed[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=wink.gif].
Do u run the FA180 inverted? Does that cause a problem in starting it?

Thanks

Rafeek

Last edited by rafeeki; 05-29-2014 at 06:29 PM.
Old 05-30-2014, 01:31 AM
  #26603  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by rafeeki
Do u run the FA180 inverted? Does that cause a problem in starting it?

Thanks

Rafeek
Yes you can run the FA-180 inverted. I ran an FA-150 as well as an FA-91S inverted, both W/CDI. The only issue is that you must watch your starting technique to avoid flooding the engine as hydro lock can occur. It never happened to me though. I do cant the engine to the starboard side so that the exhaust valve is located @ 6 o'clock to allow any accumulated oil to drain.


Leave the carburetor/manifold location alone as twisting it to the side or down will drastically change the centerline relationship of the needle/fuel tank.
Old 05-30-2014, 02:05 AM
  #26604  
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Most of the aircraft have the fuel tank in the top half of the fuselage rafeeki so as you roll the engine over on the firewall before you mount it you will see how the carby position changes in relation to the fuel tank,which is fixed of course.

Aerofinn i'll look up that aerosave oil.
Old 05-30-2014, 03:23 AM
  #26605  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Most of the aircraft have the fuel tank in the top half of the fuselage rafeeki so as you roll the engine over on the firewall before you mount it you will see how the carby position changes in relation to the fuel tank,which is fixed of course.

Aerofinn i'll look up that aerosave oil.
The carburetor needle is located on a line close to the bottom of the engine mount pad of the crankcase. While mounting the engine horizontally won't change relationship to the tank centerline significantly, mounting inverted will lower it a bit. On a tail dragger it shouldn't make a lot of difference but on a tricycle, the lower carburetor position could lead to siphoning while sitting static.

Since all I have ever flown is tail draggers I never had issues. YMMV

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 05-30-2014 at 09:34 AM.
Old 05-30-2014, 03:44 AM
  #26606  
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Aerofinn i just looked at the aerosave oil please let me know how that goes as long as you don't run nitro?

ps meant to say i've used skinny aluminium tube to run the crankcase vent line down and direct the goo away from the airframe,just sayin

Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 05-30-2014 at 04:10 AM.
Old 05-30-2014, 04:04 AM
  #26607  
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Just for a laugh i have always flown taildraggers,the mileage (ymmv) has changed dramatically depending on how much i love flying the plane.No maintainance equals interesting deadsticks.I think the theory about ideal tank height in relation to the carby on the saitos i've flown is as much about art as science.No two engines have been the same to fit and tune.To me the height difference between sideways and inverted is huge and i've noticed it most re initial start up and tuning between when the tank starts off full and when it is nearly empty.I tune the engines while the tank is half full,it's a good compromise.I appreciate that you have a great technical interest in the fine details and i like reading what you say.My interest is laid back sunday flying with your mates and if the deccy flew well today and the 82 was singing it's song there can't be much wrong in the world,well,at least not till the handbrake gets hold of me next time.

ps years back there was a huge debate about the ideal 12 gauge bore diameter,people arguing about microns and the fact that .729 (i think) was not cast in stone as ideal considering advances is ammunition design etcIf it's fun it's fun.
Old 05-30-2014, 05:12 AM
  #26608  
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Question about tank positions. If the engine tends to stall coming off idle when fuel reaches about half tank, is it a position issue, or tuning? I have this problem with an upright OS 52

Since the Magnum is not playing nice in my Chipmunk, it is at a 45* angle, and it idles hard, and just doesn't seem to find itself at any throttle setting, I am considering swapping in the Saito 100 GK I have. I checked tank centerline, and it is right about the needle position. So unsure if its tank or just the carb needs more tuning on that one.
Old 05-30-2014, 05:20 AM
  #26609  
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Hey Y'all, I came back yesterday, my 370 mile trip from western Pa. usually takes 6 hrs and 15 minutes or so, yesterday it took 8.5 totally miserable hours. I rode through every kind of weather except for snow and hail. The Harley never missed a beat in all that rain and fog.

Pete, I always viewed the little Saito .30 as being powerful. Here it is turning a Bolly 10 x 5.5 at 10,192 rpm. Maybe strong is like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder.

Dan, we didn't get to do much exploring in Pa. due to rain, rain and more rain.
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Old 05-30-2014, 05:24 AM
  #26610  
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AC, I tune my engines with the tank half full, I have a couple of pieces of wood I can place under the tank on the PSP approximating the tank position in the plane. I think you can see one of them here.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-30-2014 at 05:29 AM.
Old 05-30-2014, 05:59 AM
  #26611  
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Whats up there Rafeek? I have a Saito 91 in a BT 13 ( LOOKS LIKE A T6 WITH OUT RETRACTS ) that is inverted and a O.S. 91 in a GP Lansair, the O.S. had to have a pump, the Saito did not! That is becouse the gas tank on the BT 13 is on the same line as the carb. The Lansair gas tank is up higher then the carb, that would made the enging drain the tank when just sitting and make in run ritch-lean in the air ( HARD TO KEEP ADJUSTED ) So I installes a pump on the O.S. 91 and that made it all go away. If you can drop the gas tank so it is on the same leavel as the carb, then is will run OK. If you can not drop the gas tank, may need to install a pump. Good Luck and keep out of the trees! LOL.....
Old 05-30-2014, 06:09 AM
  #26612  
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Which pump, a Perry pump will not cure a high tank mount, fuel flows through a Perry as if it weren't even there. A Cline or Ironbay regulator is the best cure, then your engine will run exactly the same from full tank to empty. Here is a Saito 2.20 wearing an Ironbay regulator.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-30-2014 at 06:13 AM.
Old 05-30-2014, 06:17 AM
  #26613  
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I'd use a Perry and mount it on the side of the engine mount AND! on the same line as the carb. That should fix it! it did mine.
Old 05-30-2014, 06:21 AM
  #26614  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Just for a laugh i have always flown taildraggers,the mileage (ymmv) has changed dramatically depending on how much i love flying the plane.No maintainance equals interesting deadsticks.I think the theory about ideal tank height in relation to the carby on the saitos i've flown is as much about art as science.No two engines have been the same to fit and tune.To me the height difference between sideways and inverted is huge and i've noticed it most re initial start up and tuning between when the tank starts off full and when it is nearly empty.I tune the engines while the tank is half full,it's a good compromise.I appreciate that you have a great technical interest in the fine details and i like reading what you say.My interest is laid back sunday flying with your mates and if the deccy flew well today and the 82 was singing it's song there can't be much wrong in the world,well,at least not till the handbrake gets hold of me next time.

ps years back there was a huge debate about the ideal 12 gauge bore diameter,people arguing about microns and the fact that .729 (i think) was not cast in stone as ideal considering advances is ammunition design etcIf it's fun it's fun.
George Aldrich taught me to do all my tuning at 1/2 tank. When he was explaining why he pointed out that the head pressure was different at full tank to empty tank and by tuning at mid tank, you are evening out the changes. Ever since that lesson my tuning problems have gone away. Oh, there were other words about other things at or near the limits but they don't belong here.
Old 05-30-2014, 02:00 PM
  #26615  
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Wow u guys are really helpful. I wasnt expecting so many responses in such a short time)
Let me explain a bit more. This was really an oversight on my part while installing the engine in this new 1/4 scale H9 Tiger Moth.
With the Saito inverted the carb is about 1" below the tank centerline. The intake manifold is now pointing up.
When it floods it spits the fuel up through the top.
It has started intermitantly but was unable to keep it running.
I am sure with the right set up it should work fine.
Giving it some further thought this is my conclusion which is open to input from anyone pl.
1. Best solution would be to lower the tank.... big job but not impossible.
2. If there is an extension piece to the manifold say an additional 1" that would raise the carb by that amount and put it in a more favorable height would that help? Does Saito have such fittings?
3. I would like to solve my problem without adding a regulator pump that will leave me with one thing less that could go wrong.
4. Turning the manifold sideways will help drain any fuel if flooding. I would have to deal with the carb/tank height relationship. Does that impare the engines operation?
Rambling....
2.
Old 05-30-2014, 04:51 PM
  #26616  
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Changing the fuel tank position would be a last resort,it is a huge job and involves other compromises then.Because of the way the tigermoth cowl is shaped (to retain the scale look without poking the engine out the side of the cowl) you have to mount the engine inverted which almost always means the fuel tank is too high.

Dave's suggestion is the easiest way to avoid major surgery on the model,i've done it myself.The cline regulators i have are very light and make tank height irrelevent then,you can have any tank position you like.

ps perry pumps are a different thing altogether.It's only my experience but don't see anyone i know using them successfully.
Old 05-30-2014, 04:54 PM
  #26617  
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What's up with the weather over there? i thought this would be the best time of year to go bike riding
Old 05-30-2014, 06:01 PM
  #26618  
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Pretty much the whole of the USA had rain the last couple of days, today was much better.

The Cline regulator is such a simple device using one is a win, win.
Old 05-30-2014, 07:02 PM
  #26619  
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We had hail Wed night.
Old 05-31-2014, 02:08 AM
  #26620  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Pretty much the whole of the USA had rain the last couple of days, today was much better.

The Cline regulator is such a simple device using one is a win, win.
Originally Posted by blw
We had hail Wed night.
We haven't had significant rain in over a week.

It's getting a bit dry.
Old 05-31-2014, 03:25 AM
  #26621  
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Originally Posted by blw
We had hail Wed night.
Is the honda s2000 a hardtop?
Old 05-31-2014, 03:38 AM
  #26622  
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Just had an explosion in the shed.PHNUT!! is a european word for jesus h christ,i had bits of plastic spinner and backplate rattling off the roof and a window.Don't know whether it backfired or not.I run the lsn in the middle and was checking transition.The engine had a brief over rev but the prop was still reasonably tight,not much plastic backplate left.You could wiggle the prop from side to side a bit.Fitted a new apc14x6.Turned the prop over and it sounded ok so hit it with a starter still no bad noises.Put some 10% in it sounds and runs sweet as.Flying it next monday it's australia day here then but our weather here is as crappy as yours sounds.
Old 05-31-2014, 03:41 AM
  #26623  
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Back to the inverted Saito.

Now that I think of it, the 2 Applications where I inverted the engine had the engine mounted high on the firewall. The full scale PT-19 had an inverted Ranger engine so naturally the scale model has the crank centerline above the tank centerline.

The Night Hawk has the engine mounted inverted to the top of the cartridge board so again, the crank centerline is above the tank centerline.

That would tend to explain my lack of issues.

I can think of other instances where this same scenario would hold true. A Tiger Moth for instance or a SIG Rascal.
Old 05-31-2014, 03:54 AM
  #26624  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Aerofinn i just looked at the aerosave oil please let me know how that goes as long as you don't run nitro?

ps meant to say i've used skinny aluminium tube to run the crankcase vent line down and direct the goo away from the airframe,just sayin

Hi Old Fart

The Aerosave oil is a fully synthetic MODERN thick oil the viscosity of which is 32,5 cSt @ 100c. The Aerosave oil is also very tolerant to heat (much better than, say, Klotz original techniplate)+ has very effective additives to neutlalize the corrosion even at higher nitro percentages. Thus no need to use castor oil. So if your engines run on 0% nitro + 18-20 % castor oil in the fuel you should be fine at 0% nitro + 15% Aerosave. Some engines (such as YS) don't like high viscosity oils and in those applications Aerosave isn't a recommendable alternative. Aerosave does not mix with castor oil, either, which can be considered as a drawback.. Many has tried this, though, and have not had any issues but the Fuchs representative told me mixing castor prevents some of the Aerosave oil additives to do their work properly.

As a side not, Pe Reivers, a widely known engine expert said Aerosave is one of the best or maybe the best synthetic oil there is on the market. He's remark was if it mixed well with castor, then, it would be the best oil without any doubts!

P.S: hopefully I'm not starting any oil war: "to each what he likes most"

Last edited by AeroFinn; 05-31-2014 at 03:57 AM.
Old 05-31-2014, 04:29 AM
  #26625  
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Dan, is that a USAircore Knight Hawk you're speaking of, I had one in the early 90's and quite literally wore the paint of of it with an Enya .46MKII and then many hours with a SuperTigre Diesel conversion.

I don't get too fancy with the vent tubes, I just let er fly except when I have a TurboHeader pointed down, then I put a K&S tube on as an extension. I place a picture in a bit.

I gotta get my Sporty cleaned up for our big Ride In tomorrow. It has rain streaks all over it like an airliner.

If I can squeeze it in, I want to run the C&H equipped 1.50 also.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-31-2014 at 04:31 AM.

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