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Old 07-19-2014, 03:34 PM
  #27051  
Rudolph Hart
 
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Don't take this as gospel it's just been my experience that when a saito starts and runs backwards it's been bung full of juice and overprimed by me.The 30 has a very long intake tube a bit like the much bigger fa220.

Davey hobbsy may be able to shed some light on the control line use,i thought saito made special c/l engines with a different carby setup.I run a 10x6 series 2 mas prop and got around 10500 plus on the bench.That's going to make you a very dizzy person they go like a cut cat.
Old 07-19-2014, 04:26 PM
  #27052  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Pope wake up,if you sneak the 100 twin out and run it while the handbrake is away you know your gonna get busted man.They can smell nitro and castor oil like foreign perfume mate,no matter how many times you have a shower afterwards.If you do go crazy and run it what prop are you using and how much nitro ?
Howdy O.F. I wont run it until Im ready to put it in a plane . As for the fuel It will be %10 nitro , %20 oil with a 1/4 of that castor ( same as every thing else I got ) . I know you dont run that much oil but it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling and its easy to mix ! Not sure with the prop , will give it some thought when the time comes . Did you have to go to the E.R. after drinking the VB ? Cheers the pope
Old 07-19-2014, 05:19 PM
  #27053  
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No i could'nt remember where the rest of the cans were.Just getting the 82 ready to fly in the deccy...someone has made a big boo boo at the met office,it's supposed to be thunderstorms today but got up this morning to bright sunshine and dead calm.The 82 has only had a trimming flight in gusty conditions last weekend so it needs a fine tune etc perfect day for it.
Old 07-19-2014, 05:25 PM
  #27054  
the pope
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I have 2 x 82's and without doubt there my favourite engine . Lucky u couldnt find the rest of the cans as guts ache and a sore head is the likely result especially for a fine tuned athlete like u would be .The commonwealth games are coming up , what events are u in ! Cheers
Old 07-19-2014, 06:18 PM
  #27055  
Hobbsy
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Pete, I came up with a picture of a ..72cl, no shot of the back. I'll look some more.
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Old 07-20-2014, 02:14 AM
  #27056  
Rudolph Hart
 
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Dave that is a really interesting picture,i did a quick google search and there seem to be a lot of differences compared to our stuff that we fly here.
Labelling glow fuel containers at the time is a good thing to do.Long story short got to the field,awesome flying conditions,keen as to tune it up after the first flight.They usually need that to settle down,then you can tune,well,that's the way it works for me.Tank was half full so filled it.About 1 minute into the flight the 82 started changing tune and ended up with a dead stick all good.It was unresponsive to either needle in a way.Packed up and came home intending to take the cowl off and check the usual things.It's a bugger when you see the right fuel container on the floor where it should not be.Weedkiller glo fuel sucks.

Flew the 82 again this arvo all good now.
Old 07-20-2014, 04:12 AM
  #27057  
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O.F. I have mixed up fuel containers before. Was that actually weed killer you put in the plane tank? That would be some real toxic exaust I would think. I sure would not want to breath it.

When I was in teens poured the wrong container into a roto tiller Filled the tiller with 15% nitro fuel. It went like a bat out of h*ll. It had 2 foot of flame coming out of the muffler. real fast idle and the top end was insane. Don't know why it did not throw the rod.
Never made that mistake again

Ken
Old 07-20-2014, 06:23 PM
  #27058  
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I've got the Saito 30 (referenced above) to a lean idle of 3,000 with a rich setting top end of 9,900. This engine has a bit over a quart of fuel run through it. These might not be ideal numbers, but I'm generally satisfied unless anyone thinks they can be readily improved upon. Gotta love this mill! Thanks all.

Dave Mo...
Old 07-21-2014, 01:37 AM
  #27059  
Rudolph Hart
 
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Davey i don't think it does any harm to run them on the rich side until you get some more time on the engine.Everybody does it differently.

Ken i would love to have seen that roto tiller with the flame coming out of the exhaust.Did you know that if you turn the shed lights off at night while bench running a saito on some good nitro it looks quite entertaining? plus if you loose a prop or spinner you get to turn the lights back on and have a bit of a treasure hunt..
Old 07-21-2014, 09:19 AM
  #27060  
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I found I was running my OS 52 quite a bit on the rich side. I have it leaned out at least 6 or more clicks and it is running really good now, in fact I backed off 2 clicks and it started doing its burble thing again, so one click in and its perfect now.
Old 07-21-2014, 02:15 PM
  #27061  
AirmanBob
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I have an FA100 Saito 4 stroke that I took apart and put new bearings in. I did the cam timing the way everyone on this thread says to do it. Now my question... How do I know beyond any doubt that I have it timed correctly without having to take the engine apart and look? Can the timing be checked with a small degree wheel? There must be a way to check besides just starting it up and seeing if it runs (which it does)?

Also, I can't find a muffler for it anywhere. RC Specialties has them but I'm not going to pay that price. Any suggestions?
Old 07-21-2014, 02:52 PM
  #27062  
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On the Saito 30, on my Texaco model I have a 30 idling at 1800 to 2000rpm, top end around 10,000rpm, but on comp fuel (5 or10%) its top end is about 9,000rpm (lean running). Mind you the engine is well run in. Forget the prop size but it probably around a 10 or 11 and definitely a normal APC prop.
Old Fart good to see some one else commenting on the differences between our Saitos and the "rest of the world". It is because we get our stuff direct from Japan and they treat us differently from especially the Yanks. YS are the same.
Old 07-21-2014, 03:01 PM
  #27063  
bob62
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Originally Posted by AirmanBob
I have an FA100 Saito 4 stroke that I took apart and put new bearings in. I did the cam timing the way everyone on this thread says to do it. Now my question... How do I know beyond any doubt that I have it timed correctly without having to take the engine apart and look? Can the timing be checked with a small degree wheel? There must be a way to check besides just starting it up and seeing if it runs (which it does)?

Also, I can't find a muffler for it anywhere. RC Specialties has them but I'm not going to pay that price. Any suggestions?
Try Wholesales Trains, $25.56 in stock
Old 07-21-2014, 04:57 PM
  #27064  
Hobbsy
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AB, place the piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke and both valves should be open a bit, called overlap..A TurboHeader will give you about 220 to 300 additional rpm and is very easy to place in a cowl.
Old 07-21-2014, 06:50 PM
  #27065  
Ken Kehlet
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Me too for membership.

Hi Bill Robinson,
I have been building and flying R/C models since the mid 1950s so I'm no stranger to two stroke or four stroke engines. I have rebuilt maybe 25 two strokes and 4-5 four strokes.

I currently own 28 Saito four stroke engines, (2) 30, 40s, 45 Special, 50 GK, (4) 56s, (2) 65 GK (4) 72s, (2) 80s, (4) 91s, 100 single, 100 Twin , 115. (2)120s, 150, and a new 180.

I bought a used Saito 150, "Ready to Run" engine from someone getting out of the hobby. The engine was very stiff when I got it. The previous owner said it was dry and had been sitting for about a year, and it was 4 years old. I didn't like the "Feel" but I bought it anyway.

When I turned it over it felt like it had rocks for bearings and very little compression. When I got home, I put a 50/50 mixture of Marvel Mystery oil/automatic transmission fluid in it to see if it would help.

It loosened up, now Poor compression and bearings are smaller rocks. After checking the Valve clearance and anything else that might affect the normal functions, I ordered a new set of bearings and a piston ring from our local hobby shop. When the new parts come in, I will tear the engine down.

Are there other problems that I should be looking for ? Other than Valve timing, is there anything that may be difficult when going back together ? Should I go through the normal "Break-In" after replacing the Piston ring ?

If it's all OK I will install it in a Goldberg "Tiger" 120.

Thanks in advance,

Ken Kehlet AMA 1528 (Original number since 1948)
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:23 AM
  #27066  
Rudolph Hart
 
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AB you could also just fire the engine up and see what happens,if you are a tooth out the engine will be a bit flat,it's obvious when you hear it.When i fit the cam cover you can see the crankpin easy and if it's not vertical it's obvious.I understand your worry tho i still triple check everything.You could also try some flex pipe if you need a longer exhaust to get out of the cowl.

Fnq it took me months to get my head around airbleed carbys like the 30 has.Mine idles reliably around 2200 which is'nt enough to pull the plane along on the ground so it's a good idle speed plus i can shut the throttle while doing aerobatics without being overly worried that the engine might stop.

Ken welcome good collection

Hobbsy has a 150 also,so if there's going to be any dramas he's the guy to talk to.He can be a little grumpy sometimes but if you ask him a question about his bike that should cheer him up. Supposedly they have mushroom shaped cam followers as do the 180 and 220.I've never had to do bearings yet in the 220 yet so i'm unfamiliar with them.As far as the new ring goes i thought that with that many saito's you could tell me.I'd put a tank thru it at various throttle openings and then after that i'd take the 'take no prisoners' approach to tuning it.
Old 07-22-2014, 02:44 AM
  #27067  
Rudolph Hart
 
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ps with the little 30 they swing light small light props so not much inertia in the crank,unless you are some sort of tuning guru getting a good consistent idle can be difficult.The heavy mas classics help (not the series 2) a bit but so does 2% acetone.I prefer up to 10% petrol in the mix but normally 5 to 7% is enough to keep the plug lit at low speeds.It's the only way we could keep three of the lower cylinders on a 770 seidal radial lit at idle and the engine ran sweet as.
Old 07-22-2014, 03:20 AM
  #27068  
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Welcome Ken, William Robison passed away about, well, I better call it a few years ago. I'd put my money on that 1.50 getting its compression back with about 10 minutes of running. If dried castor was making the bearings rough it would also stick the ring. New stuff won't hurt a thing though and then you know for sure it's up to snuff. My collection used to be about the size of yours with a .90 triple, a TS .90 and a 1.30 twin thrown in. Hard times hit and best ones went away to other homes. I'm down to the aforementioned high compression 1.50, an 80's high compression .80, an early .62, an older FA .40 and a little .30 that William Robison painted the cylinder black.

Pete, are you sure I'm grumpy, naaaah.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:54 AM
  #27069  
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Ah, Taildragger but I'm going to bite on your teaser of the GHQ as an offbeat engine. I've no idea what it is, so I await enlightenment at your leisure!

Old Fart: Perhaps I'll richen the idle a bit until I've got more time on the 30. I'd like to take good care of this pretty little engine.

Dave Mo...
Old 07-22-2014, 11:22 AM
  #27070  
Hobbsy
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Mo, these numbers are doable when its set up right
This is with a Fox Miracle plug and WildCat 15% Premium Extra, I hope I got the correct pictures. Turning a Graupner 10x5.5
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:06 PM
  #27071  
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Originally Posted by DaveyMo
Ah, Taildragger but I'm going to bite on your teaser of the GHQ as an offbeat engine. I've no idea what it is, so I await enlightenment at your leisure!
Forgive me for cheating on the pics, but this GHQ looks exactly like mine.
Note the clever location of the needle valve, puts your fingers in the hot exhaust!
It's a .52 ignition engine from around 37 to 1940something.
I've had two of them, my current one turns a 12/6 around 9k on gas.
My first one (back in the '70s) had a piston that was stamped out of sheet metal with the wrist pin holes punched thru it.
It came with a huge reverse pitch aluminum prop, around 16" I think.
I had it on the nose of a Dumas Smoothie control liner.
The engine turned about 6k and just barely taxied the ship on pavement.
Thanks to the JW Ureely, I was able to reel in the lines short enough to whip it into the air.
(ah! the good old days)
(may they never return!!!)

Nick
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:22 PM
  #27072  
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Old Fart, re your prop inertia on the 30, try fitting a heavier spinner. O/T trick to get the last miserly drop of fuel out of a Texaco engine. Dubro make a "heavy spinner" and if you have a lathe or a good mate you can get a set of "heavier" spinners made up to suite. My Texaco 30 has a slightly heavier spinner than normal and if I want I can get that 1800 idle using a wooden prop, but only just. With the airbleed carby, you aren't on your own, a lot of people have problems with them. I learnt a lot from the ASP engines I had in the 90's. With Texaco and you might like to try it yourself, close of the air bleed totally and play with the mixture, it works with the lower number (1A, to 4A) OS carbies.
New project, I am avoiding getting involved in (hah), 204 inch Lancaster with 4 x Saito 56 gas engines, and a similar B17. Should prove interesting. To those who have asked when I can suss it out I will post photos
Old 07-22-2014, 06:02 PM
  #27073  
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Originally Posted by taildragger1589
Forgive me for cheating on the pics, but this GHQ looks exactly like mine.
Note the clever location of the needle valve, puts your fingers in the hot exhaust!
It's a .52 ignition engine from around 37 to 1940something.
I've had two of them, my current one turns a 12/6 around 9k on gas.
My first one (back in the '70s) had a piston that was stamped out of sheet metal with the wrist pin holes punched thru it.
It came with a huge reverse pitch aluminum prop, around 16" I think.
I had it on the nose of a Dumas Smoothie control liner.
The engine turned about 6k and just barely taxied the ship on pavement.
Thanks to the JW Ureely, I was able to reel in the lines short enough to whip it into the air.
(ah! the good old days)
(may they never return!!!)

Nick
Yes I see that you liked my pictures of the engine. Yes one had to be a bit careful with the needle valve. But really the needle valve sucked as it has a sharp taper and the engine is almost unadjustable like that. You can't really lean it out just right as you have maybe .001 inch between rich and lean. I included a pic of the broken needle valve I extracted from the glow version GHQ engine, so you can see what the wonderful taper looks like on it. I would surmise that way back in 1938 that they had not figured out the best way to make or use needle valves yet. I don't think that my example was ever run actually or maybe someone tried to run it but gave up as the mounting lugs do not have screw marks on them.

I happen to have one that was setup as a glow engine. It also doesn't appear to have been run either. it does have one of the cool large size low profile glow plugs in it though. I have been considering putting a CDI module on it so that it could use a spark plug again.
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Last edited by earlwb; 07-22-2014 at 06:10 PM. Reason: add more info
Old 07-23-2014, 04:07 AM
  #27074  
Rudolph Hart
 
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Earl that needle looks like the black one's you pull out of asp twins bloody touchy.Two stroke gas engines..putz
Old 07-23-2014, 07:15 AM
  #27075  
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Originally Posted by earlwb
Yes I see that you liked my pictures of the engine. Yes one had to be a bit careful with the needle valve. But really the needle valve sucked as it has a sharp taper and the engine is almost unadjustable like that.
I picked your pics because of the nice background and sharpness.
(OK, OK, mostly I didn't want to bother getting out the camera)
I got a real kick out of making that stamped piston version run.
None of my friends thought it could be done, and even if it did, the wrist pin holes would tear in the piston.
The only thing I had to do to make it run (as you predicted) was unscrew the spray bar assembly and drill out the intake tube for an OS 35 spraybar.
It was just right for the engine, ran at around 3 or 4 turns and wasn't especially sensitive. (probably due to the very low compression)

I was kind of hoping to get another stamped piston version, but had to settle for a traditional ringed piston model.
If you can put a CDI on yours, your points will last forever and you'll have the thrill of seeing the "GHQ fire belch" again.
(every time I run mine, it occasionally shoots a 12" flame out of the exhaust while trying to get it started.)

Cheers!
Nick

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