Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-30-2014, 04:49 AM
  #27126  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
The fuel comsumption on the 1.25 should normally be about 1.25 oz per mnute at full throttle. The 1.25 has a huge exhaust, so maybe a combination of good piston ring seal and the huge exhaust, the lube is not concentrated enough to collect on things.

The shape & aerodynamic characteristics of the airframe will also have a lot to do W/whether exhaust collects on the fuselage.
Old 07-30-2014, 04:56 AM
  #27127  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

Flat bottomed wings and flat bottomed fuses seem to be magnets for it.
Old 07-30-2014, 04:58 AM
  #27128  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cougar429's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tecumseh, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,233
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

As stated, I set all my Saitos to have a slightly evident smoke trail in flight. I also cap off the exhaust ports on all at the end of a flight session to both prevent drainage from making a mess and to keep moisture out as much as possible. I would think that much fuel burn would show evidence in airframe, engine or exhaust, (collecting and draining from the exhaust outlets), yet nothing can account for that high consumption.

Normally one would also expect that rich a mixture would at least affect performance all through the throttle range or smoke like a chimney. Can idle all day, (running a 16-8 wood prop) with good transition and power.

Will be taking it to another scale event in a few weeks. Don't expect to run it again till then, but will try and get some tach numbers.
Old 07-30-2014, 05:37 AM
  #27129  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Cougar i think i know what you mean? re run times.Going by the smoke trail when you have some is comforting but not much value.Sometimes they don't smoke at all and i need a tacho to do that.The 82 in the deccy has a 14oz tank because i new with my tuning skills i would need it.Sometimes after 10 minutes flying would land with an empty tank,other times i would have half a tank left and by crikey was that 82 cranking.Still made the same mess all over the outside of the deccy.There's still good lookin and smelling mess around you know.
Old 07-30-2014, 05:48 AM
  #27130  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cougar429's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tecumseh, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,233
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

With mixture adjustment aside, I would think the amount of smoke would depend on the type and amount of lube oil. However, I have been using the same source and content, (Rich's Brew 15% Castor/synth mix) for years now so think conditions should be familiar.
Old 07-30-2014, 06:29 AM
  #27131  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Have you tuned the low speed needle to the point where it is too lean and then backed off 1/16 to 1/8 of a turn? This is the equivalent of the 300 rpm rich thing for the high speed needle. My 125 would be low on power the minute it got a hint of being too rich on the low speed needle as it broke in.....which is another long (3 gallon length) story.
Old 07-30-2014, 07:27 AM
  #27132  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by blw
Have you tuned the low speed needle to the point where it is too lean and then backed off 1/16 to 1/8 of a turn?
That's how I do it. Even W/CDI, leaning out the LSN is vital to fuel economy.

My dual carb FA-300TTDP is actually easier to set the LSNs than a single. With the engine idling, I just lean out the LSN until that particular cylinder drops out then open it just enough to bring it back in. I get 800 RPM idle when warm & flawless transition. Hard to do that W/a single cylinder.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 07-30-2014 at 07:29 AM.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:08 AM
  #27133  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Cougar429
With mixture adjustment aside, I would think the amount of smoke would depend on the type and amount of lube oil. However, I have been using the same source and content, (Rich's Brew 15% Castor/synth mix) for years now so think conditions should be familiar.
Ok yes i see what you are saying.I'm mostly running 10% klotz 200 syn 3 to 5% 'virgin' castor and usually 10% nitro in my sports planes.Barry had an awesome tip on adjusting the low needle.You lean to so it nearly won't run right and then back it of an eighth or two,you'll never hear a crisper saito.The more nitro you run the bigger the benefits.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:25 AM
  #27134  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Flat bottomed wings and flat bottomed fuses seem to be magnets for it.
Dave i have a friendly tip on keeping the goo off the bottom of high wing things like sr telemasters.Bet you can't wait to hear it Fly them upside down lots...the little bit of down stick you put in to stay inverted keeps the wing and fuse bottom well out of goo's way,and if you do that a lot of low level it gets the heart rate up,saves you from doing boring health nut type things in a gym.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:36 AM
  #27135  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: goolwasa, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Dont you know the footys on O.F. ?
Old 07-31-2014, 02:38 AM
  #27136  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by blw
Have you tuned the low speed needle to the point where it is too lean and then backed off 1/16 to 1/8 of a turn? This is the equivalent of the 300 rpm rich thing for the high speed needle. My 125 would be low on power the minute it got a hint of being too rich on the low speed needle as it broke in.....which is another long (3 gallon length) story.
I think this is a three gallon story i would like to hear.The engine took ages to run in and give peak performance or,you drank three gallons while benching it for the run in or,we are supposed to drink three gallons before we read your reply...??

ps waiting with baited breath
Old 07-31-2014, 03:52 AM
  #27137  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

Hey Pete, I've never minded wiping a little oil off of a plane, it always leaves them very shiny ansd clean. I've never gone along with that 3 gallon idea. Saitos are pretyy much broken in after 40 minutes. They rarely change after that.
Old 07-31-2014, 04:45 AM
  #27138  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cougar429's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tecumseh, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,233
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

One thing I remember now is it appeared the previous butcher that cross threaded the glow plug hole also worked his magic on the carb. Did not find anything visible, but there was binding against the fuel distribution bar as the barrel was turned. Had to work it repeatedly till it loosened up, but that should only have been the case if the bar was bent or distorted slightly. You would think turning the LS and HS needles in till stumbling would mean you're leaning out regardless of the delivery method. However, that may have altered the distribution curve at or near the mid-range where I predominantly fly. Anyone have a carb off a destroyed 125 I can try?

I'll try and get some tach numbers ahead of time, but doubt that's possible. May get flamed for this, but far too many other non-R/C priorities till the scale rally mid August.


"3 Gallon Story". Is that anything like a "3 Dog Night"? Oops, showing my age there.

Last edited by Cougar429; 07-31-2014 at 04:48 AM.
Old 07-31-2014, 07:58 AM
  #27139  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Some people say they do run more than a gallon on the bench. I run Saitos about 45 minutes to an hour on the bench, and then finish the rest in the air. Regardless of what the little Saito manual for the U.S. says, the engine is nowhere near being broken in at 40 minutes of run time. They are certainly ready to fly and enjoy after 40 minutes, but they are not completely broken in.

My 125 took the longest of my other Saitos to settle down and run smoothly with predictable power, and consistent fuel economy. It always needed some change to the needle valves. It was always a thumper with a lot of power, but it was also a pain in the butt. Conversely, my 56 was just the opposite. After running my 82 on the bench, I'm betting it will be even sweeter than the 56. I think the 125 took about 3 gallons before it ran like a Saito. I was complaining about it to W8YE one day and he said his were the same way.

NOTICE- the following is only an opinion and does not reflect the positions of RCU or their sponsors:

You can hear a Saito suddenly become incredibly smooth *somewhere* around the one gallon point if lucky. To me they are already sounding great, running great, etc but sometimes you are needing to tweak the low speed and sometimes the high speed, etc. Then, they suddenly reach a point where they are running like Swiss watches and are the best engines at the field. Then, you can tune one right and leave it alone for a year or more. This is the point where they will be sipping less fuel and getting some serious fuel economy and you know you have a keeper. Anyway, that's my definition of broken in.

Last edited by blw; 07-31-2014 at 08:07 AM. Reason: spelling mistake
Old 07-31-2014, 08:06 AM
  #27140  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Hey Dave, I wrote the last post before I completely read what you wrote, so it looks like we disagree about broken in Saitos. They do change for a while. Ain't no way you can tune a Saito with 40 minutes on it and leave it alone for a year of flying, but you can after it has some more time under its belt. Didn't mean to contradict you when I wrote that.
Old 07-31-2014, 08:49 AM
  #27141  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

You didn't contradict me, you said your experience is different than mine.

The smoothing out you mentioned happens in my case about 30 minutes into my break in regimen.
4,000 for 10 minutes
5,000 for same
6,000, it happens right about here, quite often the engine accelerates about 500 rpm with no throttle or mixture change.

PS, why are RCU's pages suddenly larger than my monitor screen..
Old 07-31-2014, 10:56 AM
  #27142  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
.

PS, why are RCU's pages suddenly larger than my monitor screen..
Mine are smaller than the screen on this iPad. The "my forums" button doesn't work either. It's all part of the change to accommodate the A-Main Hobby banner.
Old 07-31-2014, 12:29 PM
  #27143  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 10,000
Received 97 Likes on 88 Posts
Default

I have to admit, the used with barely any time on it 100 GK that I got, once I leaned out the LSN per OF recommendations, just needed a tiny bit of HSN tweaking and is one of the best running engines I have. I am very happy with it. None of my other engines transition from a putt putt idle(none can idle so low) to a full throttle with no hesitation. Needless to say any Saito I come across I have money for will be mine. That of course mean for the size planes I fly, no small 2 strokes, and nothing under .52, Someday hoping to find a nice twin I can afford. Would love a 100-120 twin for the Cub.
Old 07-31-2014, 12:51 PM
  #27144  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

My Saitos all act the same way you described around the same rpms during first 40 minutes. I don't really consider that breaking in though. More like getting the engine to just run, following the instructions, and getting it to where you can halfway tune the needles.
Old 07-31-2014, 12:55 PM
  #27145  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Dan, my iPad 2 shows the page going through a resizing where the fonts are too small to really touch. My desktop looks fine. I'll notify up the food chain. The big RCU.com logo at the top doesn't work now.
Old 07-31-2014, 01:43 PM
  #27146  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

AC, there is a connection there, many times the slowest idle and the best transition are not compatible, my choice is to go for the best transiton and live with a little higher idle speed. To me the instant response is preferable to the lowest idle.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:12 PM
  #27147  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by blw
Dan, my iPad 2 shows the page going through a resizing where the fonts are too small to really touch. My desktop looks fine. I'll notify up the food chain. The big RCU.com logo at the top doesn't work now.
I'm also having issues with the " My Forums" button. It takes me to the full forums page. If I click the forums drop down menu, then the "My Forums" tab, it works.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:22 PM
  #27148  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

All interesting theories o running in. Here is my 2 bob's worth after visiting the factory many years ago. Set engine up in stand and start it at factory settings (usually rich) richen it until it stops. Lean it a bit and start it again. Run the first tank (about 6 oz) at fixed throttle. Next tank lean a bit and start varying the RPM. Continue this process leaning the engine as it becomes apparent that the engine is "rich". Ok this process (6oz of fuel at a time) takes a bit of effort and about 2 hours, but once we get a reliable idle and accelleration, I mount it in an a/c and fly it. Once we reach factory optimum rpm it is declared run in. Re retuning on sports models I consider it mandatory to put the tacho on it if you change fuel or a plug otherwise I leave it alone. Comps are different of course.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:25 PM
  #27149  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

Dan, I cured that by having the Glow Engines page in my favorites bar instead of the whole RCU.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 07-31-2014 at 02:29 PM.
Old 07-31-2014, 02:32 PM
  #27150  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Dan, I cured that by having the Glow Engines in my favorites bar instead of RCU.

I have "My Forums" in my history, but once I am on the page & have read 1 of my subscribed threads, it kicks me back to the full forum paged when I try to access the subscribed threads by going back to "My Forums". It is very annoying.

I also have noticed the autocorrect is no longer working properly.

It's an iPad thing I'm sure, but I didn't have these issued before.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.