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Old 08-09-2014, 03:33 AM
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And here's a big rasperry to all the silent people
Old 08-09-2014, 02:35 PM
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I have an Ace Cloud Dancer around 10 yrs old, with a Saito .80 that I picked up from a vendor at the 1990 Lawrenceville Nats, where I was a AMA facilities manager. Haven't flown that model in over a year.

So what, you say? Well I charged that model up overnight, tethered it down next to my driveway today, pulled out the Fox Miracle glow plug and ran some glow fuel thru the tank & engine until the .80 seemed loose & the tank was feeding clear fuel. Will she start? Nope, not right away. But soon, after a bit of fiddling she started at idle, cleaned out & ran in the mid range & finally ran at full power. Yippee!! Gonna fly the Dancer tomorrow!

BTW, that Saito .80 has outlasted 3 other models over the years.......

CR
Old 08-09-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by old fart
and here's a big rasperry to all the silent people
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Old 08-09-2014, 06:03 PM
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Rebuild update, 2 jaw puller took the collet right off, then a tap with a dead blow and the crank fell right out. I got the new front bearing in, but need to find something to set the inner bearing, everything I have is for a car, so too big. Then I can install the crank and put it all back together. Front bearing was easy, just stuck it on my drill press and pressed it in with the drill.
Old 08-10-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by the pope
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You smooth talkin dude you..

Charley i can relate to that,has anybody rung the fun police on you yet ?

Acdc you can do the rear bearing quicker than it takes to say this.Heat the case for one minute with a paint stripper gun then while holding the case nose down by gripping it with multigrips drop the crank complete with rear bearing straight thru the hole.If it does'nt quite seat give it a light smack,the crank centres the bearing perfectly.If you had to give the centre of the crank a light tap to seat the bearing you'll find that the crank will be hard to turn.After the case cools get a plastic hammer and lightly tap the prop shaft back a bit.You should be able to slide the crank freely in and out now.
Old 08-10-2014, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart

Charley i can relate to that,has anybody rung the fun police on you yet ?
No, they don't seem to mind the 4-strokes. Anyway, we hear chainsaws running around here so often that folks are pretty tolerant of engine noises.

CR
Old 08-10-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
You smooth talkin dude you..

Charley i can relate to that,has anybody rung the fun police on you yet ?

Acdc you can do the rear bearing quicker than it takes to say this.Heat the case for one minute with a paint stripper gun then while holding the case nose down by gripping it with multigrips drop the crank complete with rear bearing straight thru the hole.If it does'nt quite seat give it a light smack,the crank centres the bearing perfectly.If you had to give the centre of the crank a light tap to seat the bearing you'll find that the crank will be hard to turn.After the case cools get a plastic hammer and lightly tap the prop shaft back a bit.You should be able to slide the crank freely in and out now.
The main bearing is a bit tight on the crank, any tips on seating it on the crank first? Paint stripper heat gun is a staple on my bench, I use it a lot when building, in fact I find it works a lot better for covering than the covering gun does.

Originally Posted by Charley
No, they don't seem to mind the 4-strokes. Anyway, we hear chainsaws running around here so often that folks are pretty tolerant of engine noises.

CR
Every time I hear chainsaws in the distance I think, Red Green
Old 08-10-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by acdii
The main bearing is a bit tight on the crank, any tips on seating it on the crank first? Paint stripper heat gun is a staple on my bench, I use it a lot when building, in fact I find it works a lot better for covering than the covering gun does.
Heat the bearing on the oven @ 300F. Freeze the crankshaft. Take them out of the oven/freezer & slide the bearing onto the crank. Get it seated before the temperatures normalize.

If the bearing needs help getting seated all the way use a tube that will sip over the crank snout to tap it home. Support the crank on the center, not the crank pin.

The paint stripper heat gun would probably work. The secret is freezing the crankshaft too.
Old 08-10-2014, 10:51 AM
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Greeting Saito fans, yesterday I scored an FA-170R3 radial for a great price. It is very clean having only been run a few times. However, it had no compression and turned over very roughly. I bought it anyway as I had my suspicion as to the problem and I was right. After removing all of the valve covers, I found that the valves were all stuck open due to congealed oil. Same with the lifters. The prior owner had oiled it well (it smelled strongly of Marvel Mystery Oil) but for some reason, probably down many years of sitting, things are gummed up. I've managed to free the valves and lifters of the top cylinder and after injecting lots of penetrating oil into the crankcase, it now turns over very smoothly and there's no sign of any rust. I'll have a look inside to confirm before I run it (by removing the back intake assembly and/or looking through the crankcase while the cylinders are off). However, the valves on the two lower cylinders are still stuck partially open as are some of the lifters. No problem, I can remove those cylinders, take whatever steps are necessary to free the valves and possibly the rings, and put them back. But what about the lifters? It's a simple matter to remove the cam assembly, but will I be able to re-time it once I do that?
Old 08-10-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
And here's a big rasperry to all the silent people
No comment
Old 08-10-2014, 03:01 PM
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For seating the rear bearing I follow old farts idea, and if needed I use a long reach socket (of either persuasion, metric or AF) to do the final seating. They are usually long enough to clear the rear of the crankcase. And no I don't use my "engineers tools" just old stuff I pick up at garage sales. Old Fart I got a brand ne golf buggy cart for my mate for AUD 1,000 literally used twice. Good deal he paid for it and I get to carry my bigger O/T models in it. Fair trade I gave him his Saito 30 back the other day all run in and properly tuned, only took me 12 months.
Old 08-10-2014, 03:07 PM
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JPW,

Before I took anything more apart I'd get the cylinders with the stuck lifters upright & run penetrating oil down the lifter tubes. Let it sit for a couple of days, exercising it now and then. Patience is the watchword.

BTW, Marvel Mystery Oil is not a good lube for long term storage. It will gum up over time. Marvel Air Tool oil is good or ATF or any synthetic motor oil.

CR
Old 08-10-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
Every time I hear chainsaws in the distance I think, Red Green
Never heard of the guy before. Searched; found him. What a hoot! Thanks.

CR
Old 08-10-2014, 04:23 PM
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Well success. Used my heat gun, set the bearing on my vise with the gap just wide enough to allow the crank to pass so the inner race was supported, then hit that bugger with the flame thrower setting on the heat gun. Then I took my PC air can, flipped it over and blasted the crank. Then I slid the crank into the bearing, lined it up, set my drift in the middle and gave it a whack with the DB hammer, slid right in. I then put the put the new crank case on the vise, set the jaw the same way so that the inner race was supported on the front bearing, lined up the bearing inside, and a few gentle taps set the outer race in the case, and two good whacks and it was full seated, a tap on the threaded side of the crank and it spins smoothly.

However, I went to install the connecting rod, I should have purchased a new one as it looked a little rough when I took it off. It does not slide on smooth or rotate on its own and looks to be a little galled up inside, so I'm thinking it was started dry, or was not seated squarely when assembled. I might run some 1000 grit through the rod and see if it cleans up, if not then i will get a replacement rod. Everything else looks good, the crank pin is nice and smooth, has a nice chamfer on it, so I know that is not the problem. When compared to the magnum I tore down a few weeks ago, there should be a nice smooth movement to it. Right now if the crank is at TDC and I hold the case sideways, the piston remains straight out, doesnt drop down.
Old 08-10-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Charley
JPW,

Before I took anything more apart I'd get the cylinders with the stuck lifters upright & run penetrating oil down the lifter tubes. Let it sit for a couple of days, exercising it now and then. Patience is the watchword.

BTW, Marvel Mystery Oil is not a good lube for long term storage. It will gum up over time. Marvel Air Tool oil is good or ATF or any synthetic motor oil.

CR
Thanks Charley. Agreed that MMO was probably not the best choice! It's taking a bit of effort to clean up. So far, with liberal use of penetrating oil and heat, the lifters have all freed up. I am just battling the two exhaust valves on the lower cylinders. The exhaust ports are shiny like new inside, it's just that gummed up oil keeping them from moving. I have one soaking in fresh glow fuel hoping it might do the trick. Not sure what to use as a solvent for MMO. Worst case scenario, I will have to pull those cylinders off to get the valves out. At least I can keep from disturbing the cam timing now.
Old 08-11-2014, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by blw
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You are so right barry,it's a good thing we don't live just down the street from each other.What,with your collection of well aimed bottle rockets,and my alcohol intake plus! my suicidal rottweiler type neighbour next door the whole street would be chaos..can't be too bad then ! and here's me thinking red and green must be some kind of american police car flashing light system

Fnq aka 'trev the rev'(head) that must have been sad handing the 30 back mate.
Old 08-11-2014, 04:13 AM
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Whats up u guys? Have been away, can till ya'll miss'd me! LOL... l'm getting a Satio 80-82?? From my brother & lt needs push rods & tubs. l have looked everywhere & l can find the tubs BUT! Can not find the push rods. Anyboody know where l can get the push rods?
Old 08-11-2014, 07:56 AM
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Acdii- glow fuel makes a great penetrating oil and solvent. i fill up the engine and let it sit for a few hours before the checking. Overnight usually cures any problems of sticking parts, gummed up bearings, etc. The bearings can be stubborn, but running the engine a few minutes takes care of it.

You have to remember that deposits, a little castor varnish, etc makes things fit better and rattle around less. When you clean all of that out by either using solvents, glow fuel, or going the crock pot route means you are going back in time to almost a bare metal on metal condition. Your engine will act differently for a while.
Old 08-11-2014, 10:14 AM
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This is a fairly new engine, so there shouldnt be any deposits on it, in fact it was running up until I crashed it. The rod was hard to get off the crank too when I disassembled it.
Old 08-11-2014, 01:56 PM
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Greetings Fellow Saitites

I have been crashing and repairing these babies since they had open rockers.
Think I have had at least one of every one they made up until they switched to gas.
Currently I have 10. All 150 and up, some singles, some triples, mostly twins.
Do I get to join?
Currently I am Looking for a cam cover for an old FA-270 Mark II. Casing has an "A" stamped on the bottom.
Will buy the whole engine if need be. (If the price is right)
Always looking for large broken, or busted twins.
Thanks. Great to be here!
Old 08-11-2014, 02:30 PM
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Old Fart, yes it was difficult, he now has a competition ready 30 and I have to start from scratch again with the NIB one I have. But all is not lost a NIB YS 53 fell into my bag just before I left his shed. e have a thing called "Gumtre Trading" (like doing deals under the gumtree) and freely swap stuff around inside a "select circle at good prices or trades. Good stuff
Old 08-13-2014, 04:44 AM
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Barry the whole 'gummed up with castor' good or bad depending on who's saying it can get a bit confusing to read for people other than mechanics or their close relatives/friends...assuming the mechanic liked them and would fix it for free so they did'nt have to bother there silly heads about it.Gumming up i mean.Is it similar to de-coking an old two stroke motorcycle back in the seventies where you lose a bit of performance initially and the pistons rattle a bit more when cold ?

Sammy i've missed you

Welcome jarman,you can't just up and ask to join here,they are pretty picky as you can see.One must respectfully ask for a number which may be granted in the fullness of time.In the meantime have at it before someone else chimes in with a different opinion

ps..you would'nt be a mechanic would you ?
Old 08-13-2014, 05:48 AM
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WOOHOO engine is back together! Well at least the case and cylinder, now to set the cam timing. Does the dot point straight down with the piston at TDC? I resolved the connecting rod issue with some 1200 grit and a steel rod. I line bored it so it fits snug but not tight. I got the fuse recovered last night on the P-51. Now to finish the wing, and get the servos fixed, and she will once again fly!
Old 08-13-2014, 05:50 AM
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AHHHHH,Thats sweet! ROFL! If l can put my two cents in?? In our (Gas Mootors) Most of us use Amzeoil oil (Hope l spelled that right) We use this becouse it works like (Affer Run IN A Glow Motor) It cotes the parts with a cotting that pertects the parts and some of us add castor. Pros and con? (Pro) Like Amzeoil, Caster will do the same thing and if you don't use (After Run) you will rust the parts! The (CON) If you don't fly the enging a lot, it will gum it up. I have had ((Gas) engines that have set for years and pulled them out of stock and after l get some gas going threw it, it will bust off, the cotting will burn off. (Worst, May Have To Clean A Carb) on the other hand, when l have had a engine (Glow) that l have been using Caster in and it has set , MAN, It's a mess! l have started use Amzeoil for after run and have not had a engine gum up or rust yet! Also l started bagging my motors, this helps keep the dirt out. Hope this helps. Hay Oldfart! where can l get a sat of push rods for a satio 80-82? I don't know what size it is yet, have not got it yet. Brother said that it's a 82??
Old 08-13-2014, 06:16 AM
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O.F.- You had to red line the two strokes periodically to burn out the carbon, otherwise they got sluggish. My S-2000 seems to behave the same way. At least, I tell my wife that.

Saito numbers? Do we need to give out Saito numbers? Let me know and I'll collect the up for a couple of days as people jockey for numbers and then log them all down here.

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