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Old 09-02-2014, 05:31 PM
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Hay OldFart! You'd be prould of me. I wen't to a airshow in Fort Smith Arkansas and was asked to fly for the new crew, so l did and crashed on live TV on take off! (What a way to start a day) Anyway. I bought a 91" Jape 50cc Zero. What size Satio would be best? With out braking the bank!
Old 09-03-2014, 01:50 AM
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Welcome and thanks for that bjw,interesting reading.I only have one gas engine,i like it but it stinks.

I am proud of you sammy,crashing with style is fast becoming a forgotten art.A saito for the zero without breaking whose bank ? if it's a light arf and not breaking the bank put an fg57 in it,and they have been out now long enough to come up secondhand too.I bought mine new about two years ago when our dollar was valued better than yours,cost around nine hundred aussie dollars i think.If you want to break the bank put a fg84 in it and use a heavy c cell 4200 mh five pack back in the fuse to balance it.I've had battery packs back over the tailwheel and they taxi great like that on windy days,fly good too.

As for running out of spare parts for our glow saito's..how long do you plan on living ? remember when computers came into common office use and the catchword back then was 'paperless offices' a widely appreciated joke now.Judging by what i read and see at club flying days fourstrokes are more popular than ever.With the right prop for your style of flying they offer far better acceleration and engine braking via the prop.Makes aerobatics a joy and turns the twostroke brigade green with envy.As for electrics i get a good laugh watching youtube vids of people charging rechargeable batterys with gas powered gen sets,and have you ever seen a speedy go up in smoke,makes my saito fourstrokes look positively green and they don't set fire to the scenery when they crash.
Old 09-03-2014, 04:46 AM
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As for running out of spare parts for our glow saito's..how long do you plan on living ? remember when computers came into common office use and the catchword back then was 'paperless offices' a widely appreciated joke now.Judging by what i read and see at club flying days fourstrokes are more popular than ever.With the right prop for your style of flying they offer far better acceleration and engine braking via the prop.Makes aerobatics a joy and turns the twostroke brigade green with envy.As for electrics i get a good laugh watching youtube vids of people charging rechargeable batterys with gas powered gen sets,and have you ever seen a speedy go up in smoke,makes my saito fourstrokes look positively green and they don't set fire to the scenery when they crash.[/QUOTE]

Would I be better off with an older 45 hemi head or new 40a for my skylane 62 or doesn't it really matter? If the plane calls for a 29 to 35 would a saito 30 fly it in a scale manner? Thanks!
Old 09-03-2014, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Welcome and thanks for that bjw,interesting reading.I only have one gas engine,i like it but it stinks.

I am proud of you sammy,crashing with style is fast becoming a forgotten art.A saito for the zero without breaking whose bank ? if it's a light arf and not breaking the bank put an fg57 in it,and they have been out now long enough to come up secondhand too.I bought mine new about two years ago when our dollar was valued better than yours,cost around nine hundred aussie dollars i think.If you want to break the bank put a fg84 in it and use a heavy c cell 4200 mh five pack back in the fuse to balance it.I've had battery packs back over the tailwheel and they taxi great like that on windy days,fly good too.

As for running out of spare parts for our glow saito's..how long do you plan on living ? remember when computers came into common office use and the catchword back then was 'paperless offices' a widely appreciated joke now.Judging by what i read and see at club flying days fourstrokes are more popular than ever.With the right prop for your style of flying they offer far better acceleration and engine braking via the prop.Makes aerobatics a joy and turns the twostroke brigade green with envy.As for electrics i get a good laugh watching youtube vids of people charging rechargeable batterys with gas powered gen sets,and have you ever seen a speedy go up in smoke,makes my saito fourstrokes look positively green and they don't set fire to the scenery when they crash.
O.F. I agree with your 2 vs. 4 stroke comparison. I am in a long term plan of eventually replacing my 2-stroke glows to 4-strokes. I have re-configured 2 of my planes to 4-stroke engines already, soon to be 3. I plan on selling my 2 electric parkflyers also. I had an interesting experience last year when one of my LiPo batteries caught on fire in my field box as I was heading back to my truck. I had been unwisely using one of my LiPos to power my electric starter and its voltage got too low. I had the battery in the same compartment as my glow fuel in the field box when it caught on fire. When I saw that huge cloud of white smoke billowing out of my field box, I dumped everything out and separated the stuff from the burning battery. The battery kept burning out of control even after we all got tired of looking at it and went home.

Slamn, you should go visit Fox Manufacturing when in Fort Smith. If you call them up, they might give you a tour of their place.
Old 09-03-2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
O.F. I agree with your 2 vs. 4 stroke comparison. I am in a long term plan of eventually replacing my 2-stroke glows to 4-strokes. I have re-configured 2 of my planes to 4-stroke engines already, soon to be 3. I plan on selling my 2 electric parkflyers also. I had an interesting experience last year when one of my LiPo batteries caught on fire in my field box as I was heading back to my truck. I had been unwisely using one of my LiPos to power my electric starter and its voltage got too low. I had the battery in the same compartment as my glow fuel in the field box when it caught on fire. When I saw that huge cloud of white smoke billowing out of my field box, I dumped everything out and separated the stuff from the burning battery. The battery kept burning out of control even after we all got tired of looking at it and went home.

Slamn, you should go visit Fox Manufacturing when in Fort Smith. If you call them up, they might give you a tour of their place.
I have used my Dewalt power drill A123 rechargeable battery packs for my electric starter with great success by adding alligator clips to my starter. They are much lighter than most other battery types and have a lot of amperage. I had no trouble turning over my Saito FG 21 this way.
Old 09-03-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
O.F. I agree with your 2 vs. 4 stroke comparison. I am in a long term plan of eventually replacing my 2-stroke glows to 4-strokes. I have re-configured 2 of my planes to 4-stroke engines already, soon to be 3. I plan on selling my 2 electric parkflyers also. I had an interesting experience last year when one of my LiPo batteries caught on fire in my field box as I was heading back to my truck. I had been unwisely using one of my LiPos to power my electric starter and its voltage got too low. I had the battery in the same compartment as my glow fuel in the field box when it caught on fire. When I saw that huge cloud of white smoke billowing out of my field box, I dumped everything out and separated the stuff from the burning battery. The battery kept burning out of control even after we all got tired of looking at it and went home.

Slamn, you should go visit Fox Manufacturing when in Fort Smith. If you call them up, they might give you a tour of their place.
. Been there, Dun that! LOL..:-) My brother in law works there. He works on engines that come in for repair.If you have been there, as you walk into the warehouse, he works in the first room on the left. I bought two DLE55s. Got a good deal. They had a bunch of them that they where going to convert to diesel for the army drons. Funny they blown the head right off of it when they try,ed to started it! It did not work out. Had 55's and 111s. Made good deals! :-)

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Old 09-03-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by slamn sammy
. Been there, Dun that! LOL..:-) My brother in law works there. He works on engines that come in for repair.If you have been there, as you walk into the warehouse, he works in the first room on the left. I bought two DLE55s. Got a good deal. They had a bunch of them that they where going to convert to diesel for the army drons. Funny they blown the head right off of it when they try,ed to started it! It did not work out. Had 55's and 111s. Made good deals! :-)
Is Chris your brother-in-law? I visited there about 3 years ago with my sons. He helped me a lot. I also called him on the phone with questions a couple of times.

If you go by the joke that everybody in Arkansas is related, then you and I are in-laws since my wife is also from there.

Let me know if Fox Manuf. starts selling/fixing Saitos. That would be a great deal. I have a Fox 74, which I still like despite my 4-stroke craze.
Old 09-03-2014, 02:41 PM
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[QUOT. hsukaria;11873816]Is Chris your brother-in-law? I visited there about 3 years h my sons. He helped me a lot. I also called him on the phone with questions a couple of times.

If you go by the joke that everybody in Arkansas is related, then you and I are in-laws since my wife is also from there.

Let me know if Fox Manuf. starts selling/fixing Saitos. That would be a great deal. I have a Fox 74, which I still like despite my 4-stroke craze.[/QUOTE]
Is this not a small world? Yep! Chris is the man. I did not get to see him this trip. What side of the flamly is she from? Drop me a Ph# and l'll holler. [email protected] ';-) LOL.... l just got it!.......And she was 13 right? ROFL...... ='-} DEE,DEE,DEE,DAH! Thats Funny, I'm So Dumb!

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Old 09-03-2014, 05:42 PM
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Actually, one of Charles Thacker's favorites engines to fly with is a Saito .80. He's had one for a long time.
Old 09-04-2014, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by skypup50
As for running out of spare parts for our glow saito's..how long do you plan on living ? remember when computers came into common office use and the catchword back then was 'paperless offices' a widely appreciated joke now.Judging by what i read and see at club flying days fourstrokes are more popular than ever.With the right prop for your style of flying they offer far better acceleration and engine braking via the prop.Makes aerobatics a joy and turns the twostroke brigade green with envy.As for electrics i get a good laugh watching youtube vids of people charging rechargeable batterys with gas powered gen sets,and have you ever seen a speedy go up in smoke,makes my saito fourstrokes look positively green and they don't set fire to the scenery when they crash.
Would I be better off with an older 45 hemi head or new 40a for my skylane 62 or doesn't it really matter? If the plane calls for a 29 to 35 would a saito 30 fly it in a scale manner? Thanks![/QUOTE]

Skypup dave would be right up on power and weights for a fa40 and especially the older 45 if memory serves ask him.

I looked the skylane 62 up as i'm not familiar with them.At a 62" wingspan and auw of 5.5 to 6.5lb (for the newer arf not the older 60's goldberg kit) the engine they recommend is 40 to 46 twostroke,to me that means fa62 to fa82,it's almost in the 65" decathlon class.A 62 will fly one of those scale.
Old 09-04-2014, 02:56 AM
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[QUOTE=hsukaria;1187381shikariis your brother-in-law? I visited there about 3 years ago witcousinsons. He helped me a lot. I also called him on the phone with questions a couple of times.

If you go by the joke that everybody in Arkansas is related, then you and I are in-laws since my wife is also from there.

Let me know if Fox Manuf. starts selling/fixing Saitos. That would be a great deal. I have a Fox 74, which I still like despite my 4-stroke craze.[/QUOTE]
Sorry about that there, hsukaria! I was thinking Kentucky! Arkansas you can only marry our cuson. LOL...... Duh, l need some sleep! You know when l was working l would kill to sleep in! Oh! Go Satio! P.S. Good moring there OldFart Think my Quoter's broken?

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Old 09-04-2014, 03:53 AM
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OK, SS and OF, if this is the same Skylane as I have, I could not figure any way to get a fourstroke on it. I tried to fit the Enya .46 MKII, the FA .40a, even tried an OS .52, all were too long. I ended up with a Fox ..46 Diesel conversion.
Old 09-04-2014, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
I am also concerned about engine spare parts over the next few years. I suppose for my 2-strokes, what will wear out are the bearings and rings (or piston/liner). Those are replaceable by other suppliers (except the piston/liner). Even the muffler and carb are replaceable with some adapter if they are damaged in a crash.


For 4-strokes, I see what you mean about unavailability of spare parts can shelf the engine. I see that Saito is adding gas versions of the glow engines while they reduce their glow engine lineup. Maybe going with gas Saitos is the way to go.



Most of the "gas" engine parts will interchange. The only difference is the intake manifold & the interface W/ the cylinder. Pistons, rods, even the Crankshafts will interchange W/the only difference being the locating pin for the prop hub on the "gas" crankshafts. On some of the smaller FG-11 gas engines the cylinders & intake manifold is the same, the FG-14 not so.


The FG (gas) multis use the 180 size cylinder bore W/smaller 120/150 valves on FA-300T & FA-450R3 bottom ends. Rods valve train, etc are all the same. In fact, there are only 2 valve train families in use on the currently available crop of medium/ large Saito engines. From the cam to the rockers, all valve train components are either FA-50 or FA-120 part #s. This is true of all gas or glow medium/large single cylinder & multi cylinder engines including the FA-220, FG-36 & FG-40


An interesting side development is that FG-57T or FG-84R3 piston can be utilized in an otherwise stock FA-180 to raise compression ratio to 10.75:1 & it is a straight bolt on affair. The compression height of the gas engine piston is .019 (.5mm) taller to compensate for the 1.1mm shorter 150 derived stroke in the multis. No clearance issues. All of the glow & gas engines using the 180 bore utilize the same piston ring. The FG-57T/FA-180 piston mod netted a 150-200 RPM improvement in power when tested against the stock 9.6:1 CR FA-180 running on CDI/glow fuel. If your FA-180 needs a piston, the $11.75 FG-84R3 piston will save you $$ & boost performance too.


Curiously the FG-57T piston is $47.49, the FG-84R3 is only $11.75. The only difference is the additional skirt clearance machined into the shirt bottom on the radial engine version. Either will work in an FA-180.

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Old 09-04-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by skypup50
I just bought a pristine kit of a Carl Goldberg Skylane 62. I built a 1/2 a version in the 60's. I am thinking of a saitio 40 4 cycle for scale sound, 2 cycle for originality or electric to help my old back. The kit hasn't arrived and I'm not sure yet of a four stroke fit in the original design. With the demise of infernal combustion I am wondering what future support of saito engines might look like going forward if I go the four stroke route? Thanks for your thoughts.
I had that model back in the 1980's. Beautiful model and a great flyer. Mine had a ST .46 2 stroke. Seemed just about right for a Sunday flyer. The Saito .40 might be a bit anemic.

CR
Old 09-04-2014, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Most of the "gas" engine parts will interchange. The only difference is the intake manifold & the interface W/ the cylinder. Pistons, rods, even the Crankshafts will interchange W/the only difference being the locating pin for the prop hub on the "gas" crankshafts. On some of the smaller FG-11 gas engines the cylinders & intake manifold is the same, the FG-14 not so.


The FG (gas) multis use the 180 size cylinder bore W/smaller 120/150 valves on FA-300T & FA-450R3 bottom ends. Rods valve train, etc are all the same. In fact, there are only 2 valve train families in use on the currently available crop of medium/ large Saito engines. From the cam to the rockers, all valve train components are either FA-50 or FA-120 part #s. This is true of all gas or glow medium/large single cylinder & multi cylinder engines including the FA-220, FG-36 & FG-40


An interesting side development is that FG-57T or FG-84R3 piston can be utilized in an otherwise stock FA-180 to raise compression ratio to 10.75:1 & it is a straight bolt on affair. The compression height of the gas engine piston is .019 (.5mm) taller to compensate for the 1.1mm shorter 150 derived stroke in the multis. No clearance issues. All of the glow & gas engines using the 180 bore utilize the same piston ring. The FG-57T/FA-180 piston mod netted a 150-200 RPM improvement in power when tested against the stock 9.6:1 CR FA-180 running on CDI/glow fuel. If your FA-180 needs a piston, the $11.75 FG-84R3 piston will save you $$ & boost performance too.


Curiously the FG-57T piston is $47.49, the FG-84R3 is only $11.75. The only difference is the additional skirt clearance machined into the shirt bottom on the radial engine version. Either will work in an FA-180.
Wow!! That's a lot of good details, Sr.

I would have expected a different cam timing or compression ratio between the glow and gas. You mentioned a "locating pin" on the gas crankshaft; is that for the sensor? The intake manifold being different; is that to link up with the bigger gas carb? Is the seal between the manifold and the cylinder head made from different materials?

Thanks.
Old 09-04-2014, 10:44 AM
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I need a right angle exhaust adapter for the FG-11, but dont know what to get.
Old 09-04-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
I need a right angle exhaust adapter for the FG-11, but dont know what to get.
Get the right angle adaptor for the FA-62. TH10x1A


http://christiantraders.com.au/conte..._Adapters.html
Old 09-04-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
Wow!! That's a lot of good details, Sr.

I would have expected a different cam timing or compression ratio between the glow and gas. You mentioned a "locating pin" on the gas crankshaft; is that for the sensor? The intake manifold being different; is that to link up with the bigger gas carb? Is the seal between the manifold and the cylinder head made from different materials?

Thanks.

Saito's CDI system uses a magnet in the non adjustable prop hub W/limited adjustment on the hall sensor, just the opposite of the CH -Ignitions systems that have a rigidly mounted hall sensor & an infinitely adjustable magnet ring that is secured to the prop hub. Since adjustment is limited on the OEM system, it is imperative that the prop hub is secured in exactly the same position every time.

The reason they are using a different cylinder head/intake manifold interface is to insulate e carburetor from the much much higher CHT of the gas engine. The gas manifolds usually "bolt" to the head W/a non metallic insulating spacer sandwiched in.

The multi cylinder FG engine pistons are made taller to maintain a similar compression height in the 180 cylinder on the shorter 150 based stroke. While the combustion chamber volume of an FA-180 & the FG-57T & the FG-84R3 is about the same, the net compression ratio of the gas engines will be slightly less due to the shorter stroke & smaller swept volume of 27.9cc compared to 29.1cc of the FA-180. (Actually an FA-177)

I have some FA-180 rods that I need to send out to have the big end bushed down to the 8mm FA-150 crank journal size so I can build a 12.2:1 CR FA-171 (27.9cc) single cylinder using the same geometry as the big block gas multis. Using the .054" longer FA-180 rod W/the stock FA-180 piston/cylinder on the FA-150 case/crank will give me similar chamber volume as the 12.7:1 FA-180 I built.

Kind of a single cylinder prototype of the FG-512R3 I am planning. (high compression methanol version of the FG-84R3)

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-04-2014 at 02:50 PM. Reason: typo corrections
Old 09-04-2014, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Get the right angle adaptor for the FA-62. TH10x1A


http://christiantraders.com.au/conte..._Adapters.html
For some reason I was thinking it was based on the 82, but that must be the FG-14 instead.
Old 09-04-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
For some reason I was thinking it was based on the 82, but that must be the FG-14 instead.
The FA-82/FG-14 use the larger 12mm FA-65-FA-100 size that is much easier to come by.

Here is some useful INFORMATION ON SAITO MUFFLERS.

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Old 09-04-2014, 05:05 PM
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I found on in the US, so now I know what to look for. Thanks! Just wondering if a Turboheader muffler would be worth getting.
Old 09-04-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
I found on in the US, so now I know what to look for. Thanks! Just wondering if a Turboheader muffler would be worth getting.
I love those Turboheaders. If you have a Saito, you don't need the 90 degree bend unless you need the extra degree of freedom. My Saito 91 didn't have a muffler when I bought it used, so I bought a Turboheader without the extra elbow. I think if you install the engine upright or inverted, you get away with it. The sound of the Turboheader is really nicer, deeper than a stock muffler. They also help improve the top-end performance.
I have it also installed on an OS 70 and Thunder Tiger 75 with the 90 elbows because they need it because they have a different thread than the Saitos.
Old 09-05-2014, 04:00 AM
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Huk you can also run a cheap stainless flex pipe away from the engine and fit the turboheader to that,or not.

Skypup what do you think about the advice you've been offered so far re engine sizes for your skylane 62.I'll try to attach a pix of my latest 65" deccy with an 82 fitted.Five cell battery pack is just behind the wing saddle.Good luck with yours.

ps trev any news on the ceramics front?
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Old 09-05-2014, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Huk you can also run a cheap stainless flex pipe away from the engine and fit the turboheader to that,or not.

Skypup what do you think about the advice you've been offered so far re engine sizes for your skylane 62.I'll try to attach a pix of my latest 65" deccy with an 82 fitted.Five cell battery pack is just behind the wing saddle.Good luck with yours.

ps trev any news on the ceramics front?
Hi OF. I love that 82, mine is on a U Can Do 46. The plane has no limits. I have to be careful with applying too much power while the plane is not vertically up. Maybe I will switch props from a 14x6 to a 14x4W?

That Decathlon sure is purdy. I have that as my backup in case I lose the Sig Rascal someday.
Old 09-05-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Huk you can also run a cheap stainless flex pipe away from the engine and fit the turboheader to that,or not.

Skypup what do you think about the advice you've been offered so far re engine sizes for your skylane 62.I'll try to attach a pix of my latest 65" deccy with an 82 fitted.Five cell battery pack is just behind the wing saddle.Good luck with yours.

ps trev any news on the ceramics front?
I appreciate all the help and am a little unsure what to do. Still waiting for my kit. I have a NIB 82B GK, Magnum 52 and for nostalgia bought a NIB old stock OS 35FP two cycle. The kit I'm getting says 4.5 to 5.5 #. Just flying around the pea patch and some touch n go's would be fine for me and this plane from my youth. I believe my kit said 29 to 35 (2 cycle) for engine size.

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