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Old 09-08-2014, 08:02 AM
  #27501  
slamn sammy
 
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Originally Posted by flyingagin
Gripes, bad day, dang. I can count my blessing I never encountered the likes of that.
Had to suspend for a period of time guys for repeated safety violations. And another member decided to use our runway for a touch and go with his ultra light and brought a bunch of heat on us. The only time it ever got real heated I sent the guys arguing, home for the weekend. Got back up first. So it did not go any farther. Sometime it seemed like I had a whole bunch of adults going on 12.


Ken
LOL! I understand, Can't just have fun any more. There's always a fly in the food and a bad plug in the engine! Fly Low, Fly Like You Stole it! It only takes one to kill in for the rest. NO FUN! LOL
Old 09-08-2014, 08:23 AM
  #27502  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Barry saito say 11x7 to 13x6 for the 56,hows the ragtop on the honda s2000,still fending off the cats?

Huk if you run an 82 in your you can do with a 14x4 wide blade you could hover it all day,
OF- I've got one of the oldest, most skinned up looking cats I've ever seen coming around now. I feel sorry for the old guy. I think he is staying back up on his end of the street now. I think that's the white cat I used to see when I walked late at night. Anyway, I dropped a few firecrackers down from the deck over the carport and he was gone. Both of us were scared out of our skins the day I yanked the cover off of my lawnmower and he came flying out from under it. He was probably sleeping on the seat. Cat hair is tough to get off of a black ragtop. You have to scrape it off.

I still have my .56. It would turn close to 10,500 on Omega 15% and an APC 12x7, maybe more. I used to write this stuff down. I found where I tached it running Omega 15% and a MA 11x7 at 11,400.

W8YE has the lowest idling 4 stroke I've seen run and it is a Saito 56. You couldn't hear the engine when he would come idling in on approaches. He would sit in a chair and burn up tanks of fuel doing touch and gos. It was nice to watch a sweet running engine like that one. It goes to show what you can get when you tune a Saito to the absolute perfect setting.
Old 09-08-2014, 10:08 AM
  #27503  
marksp
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Scrubbing my flight logs from this past weekend and noticed a high temp of 199. What should be considered the "normal" operating temp range for my FG-33R3 (gas) engine?

Cheers
Old 09-08-2014, 02:18 PM
  #27504  
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Old Fart, the 4 strokes of choice in O/T flying are (Duration / vertical drag racing), YS 63, Saito 62 or 56, (Texaco, fuel economy running) OS 60 open rocker, Saito 50, 56, 62, 65 and for mugs like me the 30. Other engines used are Enya 41, 53,& 60 (4s) OS 32 and 37 (2s), ST G500 and anything you can get to run fast and stay together. For those into mental and physical torture there are the "Sparkies" like Orwicks, O&R, Cunninghams, Madewells, Browns and Atoms. I won't go into the diesels except to say I am still looking at my Enya 41 diesel 4s (can interchange with the 41 glo 4s). I won't be there but yes it is interesting. A similar roundup will be at the Nats.
Old 09-08-2014, 02:21 PM
  #27505  
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On the 56 and props. I had the first 56GK in Oz when our supplier said they weren't in existance. Got it from Hong Kong at hand over in the 90's. Props used range from 11's through to 13's depending on the application. Fuel plays a part but is usually in the range of 15% to 30% once again depending on application and never (mostly) less than 20% oil.
Old 09-08-2014, 02:39 PM
  #27506  
Cougar429
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Sammy, just got back to read through the posts and saw your question regarding the 91 valve lash.

I run all mine, 82-125, with 1-2 thou clearance, (0.001-0.002"). Seems to work fine.
Old 09-08-2014, 03:07 PM
  #27507  
SrTelemaster150
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Whatever the valve lash is cold, it will increase as the engine warms up.

Medium (100) sized engines about .002" increase. Smaller engines less, larger engines more.
Old 09-08-2014, 03:16 PM
  #27508  
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My 100GK idles at about 1100 RPM, and will sit there and putter for at least 5 minutes before eventually stopping from a cold plug. I need to readjust my linkage, I cant even get it down to that RPM after putting the plane all back together. Had to pinch the fuel line to get the engine to quit.
Old 09-09-2014, 02:15 AM
  #27509  
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Acdc did the revs rise when you pinched the fuel line.That's a very low idle is it easy to tune the hsn? i think your lsn is too lean,is this related to the engine problems you were having before?

Sammy amen to the valve lash comments here when cold.It's good reading these pages trev lots of good comments.

Barry maybe the beat up old white tomcat could do with a compromise..could you talk the handbrake (wifey/missus in aussiespeak) into dyeing the poor old bloke black.That way he can sleep on the black ragtop and you'll never notice unless..you suddenly drive off down the road.Real fast
Old 09-09-2014, 05:51 AM
  #27510  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Acdc did the revs rise when you pinched the fuel line.That's a very low idle is it easy to tune the hsn? i think your lsn is too lean,is this related to the engine problems you were having before?
It revs up a bit once the fuel runs out, I dont think I have the throttle linkage right since I had to replace it all after the crash, I dont think the throttle is fully closed. I am not able to idle it down like it was before where it just putted, so I still have some work to to on it, need to find my mirror so I can see the throttle bore. Other than that the engine is running great. Nice and smooth transitions, can sit and idle for 10 minutes and then go full bore without a hiccup, none of my other glow engines can do that. I still have some work to do on this plane before it flies again.
Old 09-09-2014, 05:52 AM
  #27511  
slamn sammy
 
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Thanks guy! l'll set them hot. Thats the way l used to set the solid lifters on my hot rod Motors. Flying weather is coming!! Thats better than a birthday, Well almost as good with a wife like mine. l love taking her to the hobby shop! (Hay Honey, l Need Some Glue, Won't a Get Out Of The House?) LOL I'm a spring & fall kinda guy. Go Satio!
Old 09-09-2014, 07:08 AM
  #27512  
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Originally Posted by slamn sammy
Thanks guy! l'll set them hot. Thats the way l used to set the solid lifters on my hot rod Motors. Flying weather is coming!! Thats better than a birthday, Well almost as good with a wife like mine. l love taking her to the hobby shop! (Hay Honey, l Need Some Glue, Won't a Get Out Of The House?) LOL I'm a spring & fall kinda guy. Go Satio!

No, no, no. Set the valve lash COLD! This is nothing like your water cooled, cast iron block hot rod engine that has the pushrods buried inside the block.

The air cooled aluminum cylinder expands more than the steel valve train components. The pushrods are also housed in tubes outside of the cylinder in the cool prop-wash.

Set the lash @ .0015" cold & you will end up W/about .0035" hot. The problem W/setting an aluminum cylinder engine hot is that it will rapidly cool as you fiddle W/it resulting in inconsistent lash. Setting them @ room temperature will be much more consistent. The idea is to get minimum lash cold so that the valves will shut completely thus achieving the minimal hot setting that is practical as the lash gap grows.

Here is a THREAD ABOUT COLD Vs HOT VALVE LASH.
Old 09-09-2014, 07:51 AM
  #27513  
slamn sammy
 
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
No, no, no. Set the valve lash COLD! This is nothing like your water cooled, cast iron block hot rod engine that has the pushrods buried inside the block.

The air cooled aluminum cylinder expands more than the steel valve train components. The pushrods are also housed in tubes outside of the cylinder in the cool prop-wash.

Set the lash @ .0015" cold & you will end up W/about .0035" hot. The problem W/setting an aluminum cylinder engine hot is that it will rapidly cool as you fiddle W/it resulting in inconsistent lash. Setting them @ room temperature will be much more consistent. The idea is to get minimum lash cold so that the valves will shut completely thus achieving the minimal hot setting that is practical as the lash gap grows.

Here is a THREAD ABOUT COLD Vs HOT VALVE LASH.
OK, thinks. I should know this being a auto tech.
Old 09-09-2014, 08:08 AM
  #27514  
Charley
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
No, no, no. Set the valve lash COLD! This is nothing like your water cooled, cast iron block hot rod engine that has the pushrods buried inside the block.

The air cooled aluminum cylinder expands more than the steel valve train components. The pushrods are also housed in tubes outside of the cylinder in the cool prop-wash.

Set the lash @ .0015" cold & you will end up W/about .0035" hot. The problem W/setting an aluminum cylinder engine hot is that it will rapidly cool as you fiddle W/it resulting in inconsistent lash. Setting them @ room temperature will be much more consistent. The idea is to get minimum lash cold so that the valves will shut completely thus achieving the minimal hot setting that is practical as the lash gap grows.

Here is a THREAD ABOUT COLD Vs HOT VALVE LASH.
Hmmm, learn a little something every day. Never really thought about it in depth; always set 'em cold, trying to split the difference.

CR
Old 09-09-2014, 08:17 AM
  #27515  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
No, no, no. Set the valve lash COLD! This is nothing like your water cooled, cast iron block hot rod engine that has the pushrods buried inside the block.

The air cooled aluminum cylinder expands more than the steel valve train components. The pushrods are also housed in tubes outside of the cylinder in the cool prop-wash.

Set the lash @ .0015" cold & you will end up W/about .0035" hot. The problem W/setting an aluminum cylinder engine hot is that it will rapidly cool as you fiddle W/it resulting in inconsistent lash. Setting them @ room temperature will be much more consistent. The idea is to get minimum lash cold so that the valves will shut completely thus achieving the minimal hot setting that is practical as the lash gap grows.

Here is a THREAD ABOUT COLD Vs HOT VALVE LASH.
Like the old air cooled Volkswagen engines, set the valve lash cold. I used to let the engine set overnight and set the valve gaps in the morning. It was one my typical weekend chores; mow the lawn, do the laundry, set the valve gaps....The good ole' days.
Old 09-10-2014, 05:38 AM
  #27516  
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How can I tell if the bottom end(which is pointing up) is getting enough lube on the FG-11? I got another 20 minutes on it last night before it got to dark to fly safely, and it is running great.
Old 09-10-2014, 06:56 AM
  #27517  
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Originally Posted by acdii
How can I tell if the bottom end(which is pointing up) is getting enough lube on the FG-11? I got another 20 minutes on it last night before it got to dark to fly safely, and it is running great.
I can't speak for the gas Saitos, but I've run them inverted on CDI/methanol for years W/no problems.

If you have oil coming out of the breather line, that would be a good indication of adequate oil.
Old 09-10-2014, 01:54 PM
  #27518  
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On running inverted Saito I always offset the engine from the vertical so the exhaust valve is pointing directly dowm, this expels any accumulated oil etc on the first full rotation of the engine and as a rule I pressurise the tank and place the top of the tank just above the thrust line, not had any problems with that configuration ever. On valve clearences usually set cold at 1 thou or if at the field set to no clearence hot and reset properly when time and circumstance permit. This is the usual procedure (in panic mode) when at competitions. Otherwise I do not meddle with engines at the field apart from varying needle valve settings if really required.
Old 09-10-2014, 03:01 PM
  #27519  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
I can't speak for the gas Saitos, but I've run them inverted on CDI/methanol for years W/no problems.

If you have oil coming out of the breather line, that would be a good indication of adequate oil.
Im good then, I am at roughly 18:1 oil now, I replaced a quart of mix with fresh fuel after running a tank at 12:1. I have oil being sucked out the breather, so going to stay at this ratio, wasn't happy at 20:1, I didn't feel there was enough low end lube from what was coming out the breather. I found it interesting that they recommend inverted mounting of this engine too.
Old 09-10-2014, 05:06 PM
  #27520  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Im good then, I am at roughly 18:1 oil now, I replaced a quart of mix with fresh fuel after running a tank at 12:1. I have oil being sucked out the breather, so going to stay at this ratio, wasn't happy at 20:1, I didn't feel there was enough low end lube from what was coming out the breather. I found it interesting that they recommend inverted mounting of this engine too.
IF a Saito single is going to have oiling problems, it's usually the cam/lifters & rockers. Running inverted or even horizontally helps get oil to both if these areas.

The knowledgable guys W/gas radial Saitos are running 15:1.
Old 09-12-2014, 08:26 AM
  #27521  
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If you are going to do your valve lash then pay a couple of bucks and get some feeler gages would be my advice. Bill also suggested using a dial gauge to set valves and I wouldn't be suggesting that myself. I think valve setting methods was the one are where a lot of us took issue with Bill's advice.
Old 09-12-2014, 09:48 AM
  #27522  
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Since Saitos come with a feeler gauge you don't need to buy anything. Bill let his Sports Car and motorcycle experience get in the way of his RC hobby and messed up a lot of minds with his dial gauge talk.
Old 09-12-2014, 02:37 PM
  #27523  
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Back in the day I had 2 valve clearence adjusting tools, one from Ford and one from Pratt and Whitney. These I used to adjust the valve clearences on a/c engines and more importantly on my "various cars". These tools allowed me to adjust the valve clearences while the engines were running (and hot). Unfortunately they were a tad large to use on model a/c engines. As for tooling to set valve clearences, out of all my 4 strokes YS were the only ones that didn't provide tools of any sort, but the Saito tools worked well on the OS, YS and Saito engines I have. I have yet to try them out on the Lazer I recently acquired. The advantage of buying new Saitos is that you get a beaut set of tools (for basic maintenance) with every purchase and guess what they always stay with me.
Old 09-12-2014, 02:46 PM
  #27524  
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I do likewise, I use the Saito .0039" tool for the Saitos and the Enya. .002" for Enyas. I don't have any other brand right now.
Old 09-12-2014, 04:49 PM
  #27525  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Since Saitos come with a feeler gauge you don't need to buy anything. Bill let his Sports Car and motorcycle experience get in the way of his RC hobby and messed up a lot of minds with his dial gauge talk.
Dial indicators are used to check valve duration/lift. They are overkill for setting valve lash.

That being said, the Saito recommended valve lash clearance is ..03mm (.0012") to .1mm (.039").

If you want to set your valves at the recommended maximum (cold) valve clearance use the .1mm gauge. That will give you a HOT clearance of about .14mm, or .006".


As a % of total valve lift that is huge compared to what the valve lash in a much larger automobile or motorcycle engine.

That would be like running .018" or more lash on an automobile engine that has a lobe lift of .375". That's nearly 5% of the valve lift you are giving away, not to mention duration.

If Saito recommends a valve lash if .0012", why do you advise against it? When a tolerance range is given, for maximum service life, it is usually best to go W/the minimal value.

In the design of the Saito engine as well as the pre-evolution Harley "V" twins (when solid lifters are used) setting the lash as near to .000" as practical will do absolutely no harm as the lash will increase as the engine reaches operating temperature.

Any good set of feeler gauges will have a .0015" feeler gauge. That is a good compromise between the minimum & maximum spec.

Now, before we here some BS about increasing the lobe contact duration time resulting in increased wear, consider that hydraulic lifters maintain .000" lash at all times & would result in at least oil pressure induced lobe contact on the heel of the lobe for a net lobe contact of 100% duration. If increased lobe contact duration induces more wear, why have we been using hydraulic lifter in the vast majority of automotive engines for the last 50+ years? Most of that time in flat tappet engine designs.

If the plunger of a hydraulic lifter is .375" diameter & oil pressure is running @ 45 PSI, then there is @ least 5# of tappet pressure on the lobe surface @ all times.

Set your valve lash on the verge if being excessive if you like. After all, it us still (barely) within the spec. Do not advise people that they shouldn't set the lash closer to the minimum.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-13-2014 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Typo correction

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