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Old 09-12-2014, 05:06 PM
  #27526  
Hobbsy
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I didn't advise anyone to do anything, I merely stated what I do, that should not be a bad thing. So far since 1989 I've never had a Saito, OS, Enya, LASER, YS or HiMax fourstroke put a dent in a cam. I think over revving causes that, not the lash setting.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 09-13-2014 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old 09-12-2014, 06:25 PM
  #27527  
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Popcorn anyone?
Old 09-13-2014, 03:01 AM
  #27528  
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Put your popcorn away,if you can't find someone nice to talk to..then be that someone.It's only a hobby.Besides,you might be selling someone short this is just an internet forum to discuss ideas about tuning and flying your saito engine.Imagine how different it could be if you got to meet most of the people on here me included,we could be seriously hateable people with a bad skin rash or something
Old 09-13-2014, 03:35 AM
  #27529  
Hobbsy
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My plan is to at long last run the Hi Compression 1.50 with the C&H Ignition today when I'm sure my neighbors are all up. The prop is a Master Airscrew 15x7 three blade and a Graupner or Mejzlick 16x8. The last time I ran it the timing was accidently set at 40 BTDC. It's currently at about 34.5 or 35 depending how close you want to call it. At 40 it kicked the prop off at full throttle after about one minute just like with a glow plug.
Old 09-13-2014, 06:19 AM
  #27530  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I didn't advise anyone to do anything, I merely stated what I do, that should not be a bad thing. So far since 1989 I've never had a Saito, OS, Enya, LASER, YS or HiMax fourstroke put a dent in a cam. I think over revving causes that, not the lash setting.
I've never seen a dented cam either, BUT - I had to repair an older member's Saito .50 that had the valves set WAY too loose - maybe 3 or 4 times maximum. I had to replace one of the rocker arms that had a serious "dent" in it where it had slapped the valve stem repeatedly. I still have the part someplace and will photo it when I can.
Jim
Old 09-13-2014, 07:58 AM
  #27531  
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I've seen pictures of cam damage on RCU. I think Bill Robison had pics of damaged cams. My high time 72 has cam followers that look brand new, right out of the package but the cam has wear.

I don't use the Saito tool as I don't think of it as a feeler guage. I have a set of good ones from Sears. You use them to feel the valve setting as you tighten it down. But, I've never used cellophane or other trick things when feeler guages do it right and are pretty cheap to begin with.
Old 09-13-2014, 08:06 AM
  #27532  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I didn't advise anyone to do anything, I merely stated what I do, that should not be a bad thing. So far since 1989 I've never had a Saito, OS, Enya, LASER, YS or HiMax fourstroke put a dent in a cam. I think over revving causes that, not the lash setting.
If you look closely at these PIX & know what you are looking at, you can see where the tappet is contacting the lobe near the toe.

Picture #2 shows a pretty good "dent" WAY up on the ramp.

https://thumbp22-ne1.mail.yahoo.com/...=1&w=800&h=800


https://thumbp22-ne1.mail.yahoo.com/...=1&w=800&h=800


https://thumbp22-ne1.mail.yahoo.com/...=1&w=800&h=800


https://thumbp22-ne1.mail.yahoo.com/...=1&w=800&h=800

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-13-2014 at 08:18 AM.
Old 09-13-2014, 08:08 AM
  #27533  
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Success, this was without a doubt the most friendly run this 1.50 has ever done. It was uncannily smooth. Having the oil all come out in one place worked well too.

One of the first Saito 1.50's produced
Fuel===WildCat 15% with 18% syn/castor blend
Plug===C&H Spark plug
Prop===MasterAirscrew 15x7 three blade
Max rpm 8,800
Idle====1,930, linkage limit, not carb setting
Ignition==C&H 1997 era with Synchro Spark

Raining now, other props later. I deliberately let it run out of fuel at about 4,500 rpm, (tried to anyway) just to see how it would quit. It didn't quit, even when the fuel line was mostly full of air. On a glow plug it would have kicked back and tossed the prop about then. I am pleased, Thanks Dan.
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Old 09-13-2014, 08:10 AM
  #27534  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by blw
I've seen pictures of cam damage on RCU. I think Bill Robison had pics of damaged cams. My high time 72 has cam followers that look brand new, right out of the package but the cam has wear.

I don't use the Saito tool as I don't think of it as a feeler guage. I have a set of good ones from Sears. You use them to feel the valve setting as you tighten it down. But, I've never used cellophane or other trick things when feeler guages do it right and are pretty cheap to begin with.
I tried the cellophane. I couldn't get a good "feel" with it.

I think of the Saito tool as a "no go" gauge. If it goes in W/O drag, the lash is excessive & it's time to adjust the lash.
Old 09-13-2014, 08:13 AM
  #27535  
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Old Fart- me and the missus took the S-2000 out for a romp last night. Perfect evening for putting the top down. Well, she thought we were going to buy some paint, etc and I was wanting to burn out some carbon buildup. She's a champ most of the time about it, but she does protest once speed limits have been seriously ignored- usually above the 100 mph point, or when I don't warn her that I'm going to the red line through all gears. Stomping on it through VTEC whips her head back if she isn't ready, so I can see that point. I don't agree with the speed limit thing though. I was told they are just suggestions.
Old 09-13-2014, 08:22 AM
  #27536  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Success, this was without a doubt the most friendly run this 1.50 has ever done. It was uncannily smooth. Having the oil all come out in one place worked well too.

One of the first Saito 1.50's produced
Fuel===WildCat 15% with 18% syn/castor blend
Plug===C&H Spark plug
Prop===MasterAirscrew 15x7 three blade
Max rpm 8,800
Idle====1,930, linkage limit, not carb setting
Ignition==C&H 1997 era with Synchro Spark

Raining now, other props later. I deliberately let it run out of fuel at about 4,500 rpm, (tried to anyway) just to see how it would quit. It didn't quit, even when the fuel line was mostly full of air. On a glow plug it would have kicked back and tossed the prop about then. I am pleased, Thanks Dan.
With the flywheel effect of that 3-blade nylon prop, I'd bet you could get down to 1200 RPM reliable idle.
Old 09-13-2014, 08:41 AM
  #27537  
Hobbsy
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All I need to do is change the throttle rod adjustment about 1/8th inch and I'll do that when I run the Graupner 16x8, do you happen to have numbers for an 18x6 of some kind? Thanks
Old 09-13-2014, 12:13 PM
  #27538  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
All I need to do is change the throttle rod adjustment about 1/8th inch and I'll do that when I run the Graupner 16x8, do you happen to have numbers for an 18x6 of some kind? Thanks
No numbers for either of those, but I was getting mid-high 7K W/an 18 x 8. I would expect about another 1K from either a 16 x 8 or 18 x 6.

Of course the results can vary from day to day & location.
Old 09-13-2014, 03:30 PM
  #27539  
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All this discussion about valve clearances. My only comment is that I have never had a Saito that I have owned and operated exclusively(well almost exclusively) fail for any reason. Under perform yes but never fail. Not work yes, my fault most times. I have seen one fail dramatically a Saito 150 twin plug that lost the prop in mid air just as the operator open the throttle, not a pretty sight. I have seen YS's fail in the valve rain due to to low an oil content coupled with lean running (read extracting absolute max performance). Saito cylindrs are almost miniture clones of P&W radial cylinders and they are some of the most rugged pieces of kit I have sen in 1:1 aircraft.
Old 09-14-2014, 12:01 AM
  #27540  
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Originally Posted by blw
Old Fart- me and the missus took the S-2000 out for a romp last night. Perfect evening for putting the top down. Well, she thought we were going to buy some paint, etc and I was wanting to burn out some carbon buildup. She's a champ most of the time about it, but she does protest once speed limits have been seriously ignored- usually above the 100 mph point, or when I don't warn her that I'm going to the red line through all gears. Stomping on it through VTEC whips her head back if she isn't ready, so I can see that point. I don't agree with the speed limit thing though. I was told they are just suggestions.
Suggestions ?..i see what you mean.I had it suggested to me today that if i did'nt slow the ducati down they might put it through a crusher under our 'anti hoon' laws here.Hope you gave the vtec a really good workout.Whats all this carryon about valve clearances mean ?

Dave good luck running the 150.
ps a hoon over here means something like a drunken firey redneck over there i think.Tell me if i've got the translation wrong.

Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 09-14-2014 at 12:04 AM. Reason: more bs
Old 09-14-2014, 02:23 AM
  #27541  
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Naughty naughty , someones straying off topic and Im sorry but this will not be tolerated ! Cheers the moderating moderated pope !!
Posts here today gone tomorrow .
Old 09-14-2014, 09:22 AM
  #27542  
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Default Saito FA 82B GK power?

How would the FA 82B GK do in a design calling for a 90 four stroke? Thanks.
Old 09-14-2014, 03:52 PM
  #27543  
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The .82 is only slightly less powerful than .91 but weighs less, it's an even trade.
Old 09-14-2014, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by skypup50
How would the FA 82B GK do in a design calling for a 90 four stroke? Thanks.

The FA-82 has a smaller footprint than the typical 90 size 4-stroke. It is as powerful or more powerful than many 90 size 4-strokes & only slightly less powerful than the FA-91S.

Your only problem might be that the airframe will swallow up the small size of the engine.
Old 09-14-2014, 04:02 PM
  #27545  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
ps a hoon over here means something like a drunken firey redneck over there i think.Tell me if i've got the translation wrong.

Hoon, Goon, Yahoo, Yayhoo, Hooligan, drunken redneck, etc. All pretty much synonymous.
Old 09-14-2014, 06:12 PM
  #27546  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
The FA-82 has a smaller footprint than the typical 90 size 4-stroke. It is as powerful or more powerful than many 90 size 4-strokes & only slightly less powerful than the FA-91S.

Your only problem might be that the airframe will swallow up the small size of the engine.
I want to put it under a radial cowl so that's great! If the plane called for a 60 2cycle and even mention a 45 2 cycle then the 82 should work.
Old 09-15-2014, 06:24 AM
  #27547  
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I'M BACK! LOL, No I'm Not Dead Yet. I set my Satio 91 valve's to 00.2 and the popping went away. Starts right up and runs grate! Thanks guys!! Hay! Old Fart, I got the Satio 82 and it needs a head, pushrod & tubes. Head is broke'n out where the rocker covers bolt to the head. Also needs a carb, block, (tube broken) Don't know if it's worth massing with? Will it make good spar parts for my 91? P.S To nite at 7:30 ET, 6:30 Pm Central time, the Red Bull Air Racing Fort Worth will be airing on Fox Sports. If you have Dish, It's no Ch, #397
Old 09-15-2014, 01:35 PM
  #27548  
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Originally Posted by slamn sammy
I'M BACK! LOL, No I'm Not Dead Yet. I set my Satio 91 valve's to 00.2 and the popping went away. Starts right up and runs grate! Thanks guys!! Hay! Old Fart, I got the Satio 82 and it needs a head, pushrod & tubes. Head is broke'n out where the rocker covers bolt to the head. Also needs a carb, block, (tube broken) Don't know if it's worth massing with? Will it make good spar parts for my 91? P.S To nite at 7:30 ET, 6:30 Pm Central time, the Red Bull Air Racing Fort Worth will be airing on Fox Sports. If you have Dish, It's no Ch, #397
The only parts that will interchange are the cam gear shaft, rockers, rocker covers, rocker pins & valve retainers.

The FA-82 is a small block, (50 series) the FA-91S is a medium block.(65 series)
Old 09-15-2014, 02:15 PM
  #27549  
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I know I'm sounding like a scratched record (my kids don't know what that means), but I flew my Phoenix Extra 330 with the Saito 91 again yesterday. Quite a delight!
Next week if the weather is good, I will fly the U Can Do with the FA-82A again, but this time I will try the 14x4W. The plane already has unlimited vertical and hovers easily with a 14x6, it's just that I want to prevent any overspeeding with the 6 inch pitch. The U Can Do can flutter if moving fast.
Because The FA-91S has proven powerful enough for the Extra, I will not be acquiring an FA-100 for it. That will save me a few bucks, unless one of you guys is willing to donate one for the cause. I will probably use my Fox 74 on the plane I was planning on installing the 91S.
Old 09-15-2014, 02:45 PM
  #27550  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
I know I'm sounding like a scratched record (my kids don't know what that means), but I flew my Phoenix Extra 330 with the Saito 91 again yesterday. Quite a delight!
Next week if the weather is good, I will fly the U Can Do with the FA-82A again, but this time I will try the 14x4W. The plane already has unlimited vertical and hovers easily with a 14x6, it's just that I want to prevent any overspeeding with the 6 inch pitch. The U Can Do can flutter if moving fast.
Because The FA-91S has proven powerful enough for the Extra, I will not be acquiring an FA-100 for it. That will save me a few bucks, unless one of you guys is willing to donate one for the cause. I will probably use my Fox 74 on the plane I was planning on installing the 91S.
Why does everyone go for the larger, heavier FA-100 when the FA-115 is the same footprint as the FA-91S & more powerful than the FA-100?

How much does the U Can Do & the Extra 330 weigh. I'm contemplating an FA-115 for an 8 1/2#, 84" WS J-3 Cub.

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