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Old 09-16-2014, 08:42 AM
  #27576  
hsukaria
 
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Dave, even Dora is happy about your engine (the chair).

What is the difference between the C&H ignition vs. the new RCExcl with the smaller case and high voltage capability? If it this was discussed earlier, can somebody point me to the right post? thanks.
Old 09-16-2014, 08:52 AM
  #27577  
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Once I get comfortable with a product, such as WildCat fuel, C&H Ignitions, Fox Miracle plugs etc, it's very hard to get me to notice anything else. I have seen those ignitions mentioned but never read up on them.
Old 09-16-2014, 09:13 AM
  #27578  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
Dave, even Dora is happy about your engine (the chair).

What is the difference between the C&H ignition vs. the new RCExcl with the smaller case and high voltage capability? If it this was discussed earlier, can somebody point me to the right post? thanks.
Well for starters.

C H - made in USA.

RCEXL - made in China.

Knowing RCEXL, it's probably a C H knock off like the older modules.
Old 09-16-2014, 09:40 AM
  #27579  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Well for starters.

C H - made in USA.

RCEXL - made in China.

Knowing RCEXL, it's probably a C H knock off like the older modules.
Is it C&H or Adrian who supply the retrofit kits with the sensor mounting hardware?
Old 09-16-2014, 10:37 AM
  #27580  
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Who makes the IGN for Saito? It is like half the size and weight of the RCXcel one.
Old 09-16-2014, 10:38 AM
  #27581  
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CH Ignitions.

http://www.ch-ignitions.com/index.ph...cdi_conversion
Old 09-16-2014, 12:51 PM
  #27582  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
Even if you have 2 engines with the same max power, their torque peaks might be at different RPM ranges. I think a long stroke design will help achieve the torque peak at lower rpms, which is useful in trucks or 3D airplanes for vertical/hovering. Racing engines have short stroke and big bore engines to achieve power at higher rpms. Like you said, there are so many variables, including transmission gear ratios or propellers sizes for planes. It is all these variables that affect total performance.

Adding CDI may help reduce ambient environmental effects on engine behavior, but with the cost of added weight and complexity. It's fun to tinker with these engines, and a lot easier and cheaper to do it on a 1 c.i. engine instead of a 429 c.i. engine, right Cougar429?

A 25% reduction in fuel load for an engine in the 1.00 size, say going W/a12oz tank instead of 16oz, would negate the added weight of the CDI.
Old 09-16-2014, 01:05 PM
  #27583  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
A 25% reduction in fuel load for an engine in the 1.00 size, say going W/a12oz tank instead of 16oz, would negate the added weight of the CDI.
I can see that. Also the benefit of moving the tank back to the CG helps a lot if you have a pumper carb or fuel regulator. Eliminates the need to weight on the tail in some planes.
Old 09-16-2014, 01:10 PM
  #27584  
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
SrTelemaster150, I agree with a lot of what you stated regarding bore size/HP, but there are many other factors that will affect your power output beyond just that measurement.

Volumetric efficiency is a calculative value and does not always play by the numbers. Even if you ignore environment, in the end valve size, orientation, overlap and timing/RPM will have a major roll in how the engine breathes. Same with intake and exhaust size and length and if they are tuned to work best at the specific RPM you need.

I was speaking in generalities, all other factors being equal.

But, since you mentioned valve size, the FA-115 uses the lager FA-125 valves, the FA-100 has its own part # so I would assume that they are smaller which would be likely since the bore is only .8mm larger than the FA-91 while the FA-115 bore is 2.7mm larger than the FA-100.

The cams, rockers & tappets are identical, right down to the part # & Saito engines are pretty consistent when comparing the orientation of the valves.

All that being said, yes, the FA-115 would, in all probability, achieve better volumetric efficiency compared to the FA-100, & I would bet that it would produce more TQ than the FA-100 at any RPM range that would be suitable in an aircraft application.
Old 09-16-2014, 01:15 PM
  #27585  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
I can see that. Also the benefit of moving the tank back to the CG helps a lot if you have a pumper carb or fuel regulator. Eliminates the need to weight on the tail in some planes.
I used a Perry VP-20 oscillating pump on an FA-150 CDI that was mounted in Dynaflite PT-19 that had lots of scale detail added.

I mounted the tank centered directly over the wing spare.

That combo would pull the 16# plane through huge loops W/O so much as a hick-up.
Old 09-16-2014, 03:38 PM
  #27586  
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Dan, unless I missed something, Adrian doesn't have anything for the 1.00 and smaller Saitos. I'll have make something my self. I still have two extra of the old Hall effect sensors. I tested them today and they both work.
Old 09-16-2014, 07:39 PM
  #27587  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Dan, unless I missed something, Adrian doesn't have anything for the 1.00 and smaller Saitos. I'll have make something my self. I still have two extra of the old Hall effect sensors. I tested them today and they both work.
C H Ignitions web site kinda sucks as far as showing what is available.

Since Saito mixes & matches prop hubs & the cam gears are only made in 3 different sizes, parts can be matched up to make the appropriate systems.

Call Adrian, if he doesn't have it in stock, he is usually more than glad to make something up no added cost as R & D. He made a systems for my FA-91S which would work for an FA-80 or FA-65.

The only other combos would be FA-56/FA-82 or the FA-50 & smaller family.

If you give him the prop hub diameter/depth & the height of the cam housing mount boss. He can make something up for you.

What did you have in mind?
Old 09-17-2014, 03:50 AM
  #27588  
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I want to convert my 1.00 and possibly my old .80. We'll see. Thanks
Old 09-17-2014, 04:05 AM
  #27589  
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Dave have you bought some slippers and a rocking chair to go with the conversions to cdi? just kidding but can i borrow your old pipe? at least glow saitos get your attention when you tune them,they can bite back.None of this beige coloured rockingchair stuff with a whittlin stick i know you are a castor fan so what do you thing about adding some castor to the gas versions seeing as synthetic oil goes ash to flash when things get to hot around the exhaust valve,trev..anybody else running gas saitos ? and don't forget to keep your fuel nipples clean fellas
Old 09-17-2014, 04:20 AM
  #27590  
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I may be a fan of castor but that is changing, I am not a fan of gasoline/petrol. Even converted I run them on glow. I have been known to slip some castor into the fuel tank of my lawn mower and chainsaw. I found out yesterday that the big 1.50 can still bite back when it gets a little lean. It appears that at 11.24 to 1 compression ratio auto ignition can still happen even with CDI.

PS, my rocking chair has two wheels and a 1200cc engine and my pipe hasn't been touched since 1980. I still have it though.
Old 09-17-2014, 05:04 AM
  #27591  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
and don't forget to keep your fuel nipples clean fellas
I am going to add that to my end-of-season tasks for my engines.
1. Adjust valve lash.
2. Soak in A.R.O.
3. Clean fuel nipples.

Now since adjusting valve gaps and the content of ARO have been vigorously debated in this forum, should we debate the fuel nipple cleaning methods? Use pins, compressed air, fuel/oil?
Old 09-17-2014, 05:52 AM
  #27592  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I may be a fan of castor but that is changing, I am not a fan of gasoline/petrol. Even converted I run them on glow. I have been known to slip some castor into the fuel tank of my lawn mower and chainsaw. I found out yesterday that the big 1.50 can still bite back when it gets a little lean. It appears that at 11.24 to 1 compression ratio auto ignition can still happen even with CDI.

PS, my rocking chair has two wheels and a 1200cc engine and my pipe hasn't been touched since 1980. I still have it though.
My 12.7:1 FA-180 doesn't kick back @ 35 BTDC when leaned out. It merely starts to sag in RPM, but I don't know what it would do if I kept screwing the HSN in.

I have about 1/4 turn of HSN @ the top end that doesn't affect RPM. I set the needle @ the rich end of maximum RPM setting. Open up the needle slowly. When the RPM sags, lean it down slowly, just a couple of clicks, just enough to were it picks back up.

Castor & the elevated EGTs associated W/CDI do not play well together. Even W/full synthetic, after 60+ gallons of 15% Cool Power went through my FA-150 CDI, it had some coking in the exhaust port. I imagine it would be even worse W/castor added to the mix.

Gas, since it runs even higher EGTs, would be even moreso I would think.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-17-2014 at 06:02 AM.
Old 09-17-2014, 05:57 AM
  #27593  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I want to convert my 1.00 and possibly my old .80. We'll see. Thanks
He has hall sensor mounts & magnet rings for both.

The 80 would use the same parts as an FA-91S.

The 100 would interchange W/FA-125.

I know for a fact that he has rings & mounts for both.

All of the modern components will integrate W/your old Synchrospark modules.
Old 09-17-2014, 09:04 AM
  #27594  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
My 12.7:1 FA-180 doesn't kick back @ 35 BTDC when leaned out. It merely starts to sag in RPM, but I don't know what it would do if I kept screwing the HSN in.

I have about 1/4 turn of HSN @ the top end that doesn't affect RPM. I set the needle @ the rich end of maximum RPM setting. Open up the needle slowly. When the RPM sags, lean it down slowly, just a couple of clicks, just enough to were it picks back up.

Castor & the elevated EGTs associated W/CDI do not play well together. Even W/full synthetic, after 60+ gallons of 15% Cool Power went through my FA-150 CDI, it had some coking in the exhaust port. I imagine it would be even worse W/castor added to the mix.

Gas, since it runs even higher EGTs, would be even moreso I would think.
Instructions for the FG-11 include cleaning the muffler to get rid of the coking or other buildup and is a recommended maintenance. I think the only thing that would be needed to convert the FG to a CDI Glow would be to change the carb. With that said, why not get the ignition from Saito? The collet has a magnet in it and a set screw to secure it to the shaft, add that and the hall effect and you have pretty much the FG with a glow carb.
Old 09-17-2014, 09:13 AM
  #27595  
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[QUOTE=SrTelemaster150;11881916.[/QUOTE]

Er, I think that's hiccup. Old Ohio down home lingo...

Ennyhoo; I just ordered a NV .40 gasser. It's supposed to run on gas with a glow plug. Looking at its specs , I note that it has 12 - 14:1 compression ratio & wants 93 octane gas.
I suppose that 12-14:1 spec is something about their machine tolerances.

The reason I mention this is that you seem to have machine shop capabilities. Do you have the where withal to machine a Saito jug enough to increase tha CR to 12:1? The result on gas might be interesting.

CR
Old 09-17-2014, 11:44 AM
  #27596  
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This may have been touched on here in the past but I haven't seen it.
I have a nice Saito .45 , the one with the elbow joint intake on the carb.
Picked it up new with no box for a song and its a great engine like all my other Saitos. However it doesn't give me the amazing idle like the rest, best it can do reliable is about 2500/2600. From what I have been able to gather this isn't particular to my engine as I have read some old reviews and they encountered the same thing.
Just wanted to be sure it isn't me, it pulls my 4Star54 around really well, very reliable and powerful for an engine its size.
Unfortunately I had been using my (purchased new, just broke in) Saito 62 but it keeps dead sticking for unknown reasons(I suspect a main bearing not seated).
Old 09-17-2014, 11:55 AM
  #27597  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Instructions for the FG-11 include cleaning the muffler to get rid of the coking or other buildup and is a recommended maintenance. I think the only thing that would be needed to convert the FG to a CDI Glow would be to change the carb. With that said, why not get the ignition from Saito? The collet has a magnet in it and a set screw to secure it to the shaft, add that and the hall effect and you have pretty much the FG with a glow carb.
The medium block FG-21 & smaller Saito gas engines can easily be converted to CDI/methanol by swapping out the carburetor & perhaps the manifold. Not so simple on the big block FG-30 & larger. They use an entirely different manifold/cylinder head interface.

The magnet in the prop hub approach only works when there is a pin or key in the crank to locate the prop hub in precise orientation & secure it from inadvertent slippage.

The Saito FG series engines have a pin in the crank & a notch in the hub. A small adjustment is provided in the Hall sensor mount.

Even if you were able to get the prop hub in the proper position, W/O the pin, it has a tendency to shift on initial start up. If you allowed fir some slippage by setting it up W/ample adjustment for advance in the hall sensor mount you would probably be OK. After prop hub R&R & the possible initial start up shift, the prop hub stays secure in the setting.

BUT, this begs the question why bother when you would have as much as the CH -Ignitions system costs in the Saito parts anyway? Also, W/the Saito system you will have to figure out a way to secure the hall sensor mount to the case. Drill a& tap the case perhaps?

The cam housing hall sensor mount & set screw secured trigger magnet ring for the prop hub used in the CH-Ignitions conversions eliminates any mounting issues.
Old 09-17-2014, 12:16 PM
  #27598  
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Originally Posted by Charley
Er, I think that's hiccup. Old Ohio down home lingo...

Ennyhoo; I just ordered a NV .40 gasser. It's supposed to run on gas with a glow plug. Looking at its specs , I note that it has 12 - 14:1 compression ratio & wants 93 octane gas.
I suppose that 12-14:1 spec is something about their machine tolerances.

The reason I mention this is that you seem to have machine shop capabilities. Do you have the where withal to machine a Saito jug enough to increase tha CR to 12:1? The result on gas might be interesting.

CR
No, as a matter of fact, I do not have machine shop capabilities but a lot of the work can be accomplished with "Bubba" machining With files, Dremel tools, drill presses etc.

Reducing compression height to increase the CR is NOT one of those "Bubba" capable operations. I do have the knowledge to operate machines, just no machines. The easiest (cheapest for me as I have to pay for the procedure) way in most cases is to mill the case deck, not the cylinder base. Either way would work however.

For or a good example of what "Bubba" machine work & farmed out machine work that might be involved READ THUS THREAD.

In that adventure I was exploring the possibilities of increasing compression. I would never go that route again to build a high compression FA-180. It would be far easier and cheaper to mill .035" from the deck of an existing FA-180' or mill .015" & utilize the .020" taller FG-57 or FG-84 piston.

A good upgrade to an FA-150 W/a clapped out top end would to use the FA-180 cylinder, piston, ring, valves & the 180 connecting rod bushed down to the 8mm FA-150 rod journal size. The would achieve a 12:1 CR FA-171. The only machine work required would be the counterbore in the case. Valve pocket & piston skirt relief is easy to do W/a drum sander in a Dremel tool in the case of the valve pocket & a half round file for the piston skirt relief. There would be no need for additional rid clearance in the case as the at role would remain the same.

BTW, the DA-180 is not a 1.8 cu in engine at all, it is 1.77 cu in.
Old 09-17-2014, 12:19 PM
  #27599  
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Originally Posted by jeffie8696
This may have been touched on here in the past but I haven't seen it.
I have a nice Saito .45 , the one with the elbow joint intake on the carb.
Picked it up new with no box for a song and its a great engine like all my other Saitos. However it doesn't give me the amazing idle like the rest, best it can do reliable is about 2500/2600. From what I have been able to gather this isn't particular to my engine as I have read some old reviews and they encountered the same thing.
Just wanted to be sure it isn't me, it pulls my 4Star54 around really well, very reliable and powerful for an engine its size.
Unfortunately I had been using my (purchased new, just broke in) Saito 62 but it keeps dead sticking for unknown reasons(I suspect a main bearing not seated).
Generally speaking, the smaller the engine, the higher the minimum reliable idle. There is less mass to carry the rotation through.

Your dead stick problems W/the DA-62 are probably fuel delivery problems, most likely due to fuel tank plumbing or location issues.
Old 09-17-2014, 06:51 PM
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No, I bolted the Saito 45 in place of the FA-62B and have not had a single issue with it.

Last edited by jeffie8696; 09-17-2014 at 07:01 PM.

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