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Old 09-21-2014, 12:18 PM
  #27676  
Hobbsy
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That is obviously not the correct muffler, if that muffler were placed on the engine the pipes would point forward. They should point back with the engine on its right side. This is the correct one.

Dan, I had a 1.30 with twn carbs although they were cast together and twin plugs.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 09-21-2014 at 12:29 PM.
Old 09-21-2014, 12:34 PM
  #27677  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Here is a link to the Clarence Lee test the 1.50 I have, the A would be the next series, the G would be later. Saito seldom spells out the changes, if any. My address would only tell you that I live 100 miles south of DC where the Potomac river is 9 miles wide.
That 1.50 box is the same as mine came in, I still have the fire hose nozzle muffler and the newer cast muffler but run a TurboHeader. If yours really is a high compression version you'll be amazed at it's performance on 5% nitro fuel, if you try it.

That 3.00 is an awesome engine in either configuration.

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...20FA-150S.html
Say hobbsy, I don't know what old fart means by "if that engine is what I think it is, don't give hobbsy your address", I just assumed some of these may have something special about them. And I'd read that the early version's were higher compression, and that saito had changed that later in the course of production. So, how can you tell if it is a high compression engine? And thanks for the link,I'll check it out and see what I can learn from it. thanks

Oh and P.S. I never wanted your address, I got one of my own thanks
Old 09-21-2014, 12:53 PM
  #27678  
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Pete knows I like those high compression Saitos, many hate them. I found a picture of my 1.30 from years ago. Notice that I fancied it up with twin Cline regulators and twin cast mufflers.
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Old 09-21-2014, 01:07 PM
  #27679  
rcjunky67
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acdii thats a side mount muffler for use when the engine is mounted on its side. just like you have it in your picture. you have the muffler backwards.
1, take the flange nut out of the bag,then put the loose flange on it.
2,Next, put the lock nut on the threads all the way on just not tight yet
3,Then put two wrap;s of teflon tape wrapped backwards on the threads , the opisset of the the way your turning it to install it. This way the tape doesn't unravel as you thread the flange nut into the cylinder head.
4,Now install the flange nut in the cylinder head and make sure you thread it in at least 5 or more threads, then finger tighten only.
5,At this point the flange should be free if not, then loosen the locknut on the flange nut just enough to position the flange so it lines up with the mounting holes in the flange on the muffler
6,Install the orange o-ring.
7,Put some blue locktite on the bolts if they don't have any already, and go ahead and bolt the muffler to the flange,but leave it loose for final alignment.
8,The bracket on the side of the muffler body should line up with one of the rear cover bolt's
9,Once that is attached, you can then tighten the lock nut on the flange bolt.

Once you have it all together, you'll see how the pipes angle down and away from the back of the engine. And don't feel bad,once you begin to realise how simple it is to install. I have one like this on a o.s.91fsll . It only took me the better part of a day to figure it out. Hope this help's my friend
Old 09-21-2014, 01:33 PM
  #27680  
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At the risk of sounding to green, I've a question. Just curious. On my o.s. 91fsll , the crank case breather is plumbed back into the intake, like any conventional PCV system. I know that it's recommended to leave this open to the atmosphere. And on small displacement engines that's ok.

So my question is this, would it hurt say, a 150 to put a nipple in the intake and run tubing from the vent to the intake? Now just let me say, Ive been a automotive technician for more than half of my 48 yrs,and I do understand more than I may let on sometimes,besides the benefit of a cleaner airplane, I'm just wondering if it wouldn't scavenge to much oil from the crankcase? Like I said , just curious
Old 09-21-2014, 02:55 PM
  #27681  
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Originally Posted by rcjunky67
acdii thats a side mount muffler for use when the engine is mounted on its side. just like you have it in your picture. you have the muffler backwards.
1, take the flange nut out of the bag,then put the loose flange on it.
2,Next, put the lock nut on the threads all the way on just not tight yet
3,Then put two wrap;s of teflon tape wrapped backwards on the threads , the opisset of the the way your turning it to install it. This way the tape doesn't unravel as you thread the flange nut into the cylinder head.
4,Now install the flange nut in the cylinder head and make sure you thread it in at least 5 or more threads, then finger tighten only.
5,At this point the flange should be free if not, then loosen the locknut on the flange nut just enough to position the flange so it lines up with the mounting holes in the flange on the muffler
6,Install the orange o-ring.
7,Put some blue locktite on the bolts if they don't have any already, and go ahead and bolt the muffler to the flange,but leave it loose for final alignment.
8,The bracket on the side of the muffler body should line up with one of the rear cover bolt's
9,Once that is attached, you can then tighten the lock nut on the flange bolt.

Once you have it all together, you'll see how the pipes angle down and away from the back of the engine. And don't feel bad,once you begin to realise how simple it is to install. I have one like this on a o.s.91fsll . It only took me the better part of a day to figure it out. Hope this help's my friend
Thanks, but Hobbsy has it right, for some odd reason though saying its for the Saito, it is backwards. when setup as you say, the pipes point towards the prop. Also the fitting is larger than the 125 exhaust threads. I could see it fit if a 90* L was used and the whole thing sat behind the engine.
Old 09-21-2014, 03:43 PM
  #27682  
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I do my 1.50 this way so all the oil comes out the same place. Even though this is a TruboHeader set up you can do it with an extension on the cast mufflers but not the fire hose nozzle.
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Old 09-21-2014, 04:06 PM
  #27683  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Thanks, but Hobbsy has it right, for some odd reason though saying its for the Saito, it is backwards. when setup as you say, the pipes point towards the prop. Also the fitting is larger than the 125 exhaust threads. I could see it fit if a 90* L was used and the whole thing sat behind the engine.
That muffler you show in the picture is for a big block 120,150,180. Not a 125
Old 09-21-2014, 04:45 PM
  #27684  
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Originally Posted by bob62
That muffler you show in the picture is for a big block 120,150,180. Not a 125
That would be why it doesn't look right. No big deal, it came with the engine, can always pawn it off on someone who can use it. The end on the stock muffler is crushed though, but useable.
Old 09-21-2014, 05:01 PM
  #27685  
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Originally Posted by acdii
The one I saw had some linkages on it to each cylinder, like I said, I didn't look too close at it.

Here is the muffler and 125 laid out, Not a clue how it is supposed to work for any of the listed engines.

I used to own a Saito 1.80 and the exhaust port in the cylinder head pointed straight backward. So, the muffler you are showing is setup for one of those engines with a rearward exhaust port.
s
Old 09-22-2014, 02:06 AM
  #27686  
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Junky dave has it right i was joking with you.Dave likes the high compression 150's and so do i.The joke was if you give him your address,no matter how far away you live,next minute you'll have hobbsy on the back porch howling to the moon

If you plumb the breather nipple (keep them clean folks) back to the carby people say you will be running that rubbish back thru your engine again,theres a lot of residual oil kept in the crankcase,pull the backplate and have a look.If it was suddenly sucking that up you would'nt get the engine started.You can try sliding the breather nipple tube into a long piece of ally tubing that supports it and keeps the goo off,all of it.Knew a guy who progressively ran his saito leaner and leaner to keep it cleaner and cleaner,it went bang.Watching an engine take that much punishment over such a long period of time impressed me,it's one of the reasons i like saito's so much.You won't sound green here there are lots of different ideas and it keeps it interesting.

One of the reasons i like running saitos sideways or inverted in the airframe is that in both instances there is always a lot of oil around the cam and both valve rockers.Quite a while back there were a few people complaining about dry cams on the 115 because the breather nipple was in the backplate and they said that was a problem,hav'nt heard anyone here say that for a long time although from memory hobbsy drilled and tapped a cam cover and had a return line attached i think.
Old 09-22-2014, 04:15 AM
  #27687  
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I can see that muffler working on an inverted 1.20, 1.50, 1.80 using what appears to be a 90 degree adapter.

OF, that experiment with the drilled cam cover was a total failure. I ran a line from the backplate vent to the left side of the cam cover and put the out let on the right side of the cam cover. Not one spec of oil moved through those lines line. I don't know where the oil went but it sure didn't come out anywhere I could see it. I have two holes plugged with 8x32x.125 socket head screws.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:36 AM
  #27688  
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Originally Posted by captinjohn
Sr Tele, Thanks for the great information. Do you use about 28 degrees for the timing?
28 is about right for gasoline. Methanol/glow fuel needs any where from 33-35 BTDC initial advance setting on CH/RCXEL type modules.

I set up an FA-100 This past Saturday for a friend & it screamed W/the timing set @ 33 BTDC W/a CH-Ignitions conversion burning 15% Omega.

RESULTS:

GI (Glow Ignition)

Idle = 1800 RPM
WOT = 9700 RPM
14 x 6 MAS "K" Series propeller

CDI 33 BTDC

Idle = 1550 RPM
WOT = 10,700 RPM
14 x 6 MAS " K" Series propeller

To be fair the WOT RPM for CDI was initially @ 10,200 RPM but after some running on the stand, the engine broke in a bit more. After another tank of fuel was run through, it would quickly spool up to 10,300 & steadily increase to 10,700 & hold steady. That would indicate to me that the engine was very happy W/the tune & even though TQ had fallen off some above 10,300 it continued to make more HP.

We came to the conclusion that a 15 x 6 would be the minimum to prevent over reving the engine in the air. 10,700 RPM static is just too darned close to the 11,000 RPM redline.

Overvall I was quite impressed. The calculations came out to 1.9 HP & just over 12# of static thrust. The bigger 15" prop would increase the thrust even more. The engine is going in a 60 size Extra 300. It should have quite impressive vertical performance.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-22-2014 at 07:43 AM.
Old 09-22-2014, 04:43 AM
  #27689  
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Originally Posted by acdii
The one I saw had some linkages on it to each cylinder, like I said, I didn't look too close at it.
Like THIS ONE? There's a good shot of the linkage at 0:45. If that engine was in good condition it was worth @ least 2 X the asking price of $300. I've lost bids on e-bay that were higher than $600.

http://youtu.be/vdmLu13UJzs

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 09-22-2014 at 05:00 AM.
Old 09-22-2014, 04:52 AM
  #27690  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy

Dan, I had a 1.30 with twn carbs although they were cast together and twin plugs.
Yeah I think all of the uneven fire twins have the "Siamese twin" carbs. I know the FA-182T has one. Quite a nice design. I can imagine how unbalanced the A/F ratios would be W/the 180/540 firing order if they tried to feed both cylinders from one Venturi. The dual carbs built into a single body were a good way to keep it as simple as possible & maintain separate induction for each cylinder. Kinda like a miniature Weber carburetor.

Too bad they didn't do something like that for the FA200Ti.
Old 09-22-2014, 05:05 AM
  #27691  
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That is a great vid, I've seen it before but always watch it again.

I've always felt that the 14x6 doesn't belong on the 1.00's prop list but it's on there. The 15x6 seems perfect. The next time I run my 1.00, I have Bolly 13.5x8 laid out to run on it.
I am taking Geri to get shots in her right wrist joint and then I am having my right eye lens replaced Wednesday, lottsa fun stuff to keep busy.
Old 09-22-2014, 05:54 AM
  #27692  
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Yep thats the one. Wishing I had an extra $200 with me that day or it would be on my shelf right now.

The 125 I am considering adding CDI to it, running gassers with ignition is great, but the smell from the Saito open carb is nutz! The DLE has a sealed carb, so once the vent is capped, you never smell fuel from it, but the Saito carb is open, and after sitting a day in the car, it stinks up the whole car as if fuel were spilled. I finally just pulled the line from the carb and capped that one too, smell is gone.

What I like about the gas ones, no field box to carry around, just the jug. Flip the prop a few times and off it goes. No glow plug to fiddle with, no needles to play with, just flip and go.

The one thing that puzzles me, how does the CDI burn less fuel than glow without leaning it out?
Old 09-22-2014, 06:09 AM
  #27693  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Yep thats the one. Wishing I had an extra $200 with me that day or it would be on my shelf right now.

The 125 I am considering adding CDI to it, running gassers with ignition is great, but the smell from the Saito open carb is nutz! The DLE has a sealed carb, so once the vent is capped, you never smell fuel from it, but the Saito carb is open, and after sitting a day in the car, it stinks up the whole car as if fuel were spilled. I finally just pulled the line from the carb and capped that one too, smell is gone.

What I like about the gas ones, no field box to carry around, just the jug. Flip the prop a few times and off it goes. No glow plug to fiddle with, no needles to play with, just flip and go.

The one thing that puzzles me, how does the CDI burn less fuel than glow without leaning it out?
I always crack up when somebody waltzes into the field with a gasser and jug feeling "liberated" and then they start bumming things from the glow guys' field boxes when something needs work on their plane.
Old 09-22-2014, 07:40 AM
  #27694  
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Originally Posted by acdii
The one thing that puzzles me, how does the CDI burn less fuel than glow without leaning it out?
Well, that's the point, you do lean it out. With CDI you have rock solid ignition timing. It is not affected by needle setting so you can lean the needles out for the most efficient combustion W/O detonation.

However, as I get to play W/more Saito engine configuration I find differing results.

For example: Most of the time I see a slight power boost W/22-25% better fuel economy. W/the FA-200Ti I saw no power gain, but tremendous fuel economy improvement. That could be attributed to the much more efficient running over the terrible A/F imbalance of the FA-200Ti on GI. While the A/F imbalance persisted on CDI, I was able to lean it out a great deal.

The FA-100 I set up recently did not require a lot of leaning out, but it gained 500 RPM over the maximum output on GI, eventually ending up turning 1000 RPM better than GI @ WOT W/the 14 x 6 MAS " K" Series prop. Since it did not require or benefit from drastic needle leaning, I would assume that fuel economy is probably not significantly affected. However, it would make the same power as the GI version @ less throttle so in that respect, it might improve fuel economy @ that specific power output.
Old 09-22-2014, 07:59 AM
  #27695  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Yeh sometimes the slang is different,probably means the same tho.I don't think i'd ride a bike nowadays when it's that cold,we don't sell any snow ploughs over here.But the harley riders here still pay a big price for the lifestyle gear they wear.As you know open face helmets look o so cool when you see someone else wearing one but it's a bit different when it's you doing it.Nice on a sunny calm day at low speeds.I've ridden past some harley riding guys at about 80 mph which is 10 over the state limit and could'nt hear what i thought they were saying to me.Turns out it was just the wind moving their lips and i was'nt watching where i was going enough.Took them ages at the next stop to pick the bugs out of their faces.

Huk how many months of the year can you fly there ?
We fly year round here. The heat bothers me some as I'm getting older and was on some meds for a while. Some guys fly early but I think late afternoon is when the air is the best in the summer. Winter is no problem. Sometimes, it gets windy in the winter.

Some of the riders around here pay more for their costumes than my wife does in a year of shopping. A few months ago I was cruising on the Interstate with my wife and a son in the car. I saw these two dots in the rear view mirror getting bigger real fast. I didn't say a word. It was two beautiful Ninjas coming full throttle. No idea how fast they were flying but it looked like mach 1 to me. They roared past in the left lane, and the wife and son jumped out of their skins. It was almost like a shock wave. heh heh

It sounds like you ride like I used to. Wide open on twisty roads and out in the country. Big, heavy iron bikes can't keep up. I out ran a biker gang once on a puny little Kawasaki. They turned and started chasing me and I ran for my life. They would almost get up on me on the straightaways, but I would leave them in all the curves. The curves saved me that day as they finally gave up after a long way. They were a mean looking bunch too and I was a scared teenager.

I mostly used the flat plastic wrap arounds that snapped on the classic white Bell helmet. Sometimes I would forget to take it.
Old 09-22-2014, 08:01 AM
  #27696  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
I always crack up when somebody waltzes into the field with a gasser and jug feeling "liberated" and then they start bumming things from the glow guys' field boxes when something needs work on their plane.

I pretty much carry my shop with me when I fly. All my parts and tools are stored in two tool boxes, and I never leave home without my flight box since I still need the Tach, and battery testers. Never know when you might need to replace a prop, or make a quick repair. The nice thing is I dont need to carry the starter box out to the plane when running gas. If I nose it over(which has happened quite often with the Clips) I just grab my glove, walk out and flip it over a couple times, and walk back. Sure beats having to grab the glow stick or starter box from my stuff and walk out, start it up and walk back, put the box back and go back and fly, or walk out, grab the plane and carry it back and start all over again.
Old 09-22-2014, 08:44 AM
  #27697  
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Originally Posted by acdii
I pretty much carry my shop with me when I fly. All my parts and tools are stored in two tool boxes, and I never leave home without my flight box since I still need the Tach, and battery testers. Never know when you might need to replace a prop, or make a quick repair. The nice thing is I dont need to carry the starter box out to the plane when running gas. If I nose it over(which has happened quite often with the Clips) I just grab my glove, walk out and flip it over a couple times, and walk back. Sure beats having to grab the glow stick or starter box from my stuff and walk out, start it up and walk back, put the box back and go back and fly, or walk out, grab the plane and carry it back and start all over again.
Definitely no need for glow starter, but many glow engines start by hand and some gassers require a starter, like my CRRC-Pro 26cc needs a starter. Maybe once it is fully broken in, it might hand start.

Regarding your T-Clips nosing over, are you sure the wheels are not dragging inside the wheel pants? I have had a couple of planes that were flawed in design and would nose over. I realized that they must have been designed flying on paved runways and the developers never checked it on a grass field. Those 2 ARFs were actually from a top brand name, but I don't think Sig would ever let that slip by. I also have to switch to high-rates on the radio while taxiing because of that.
Old 09-22-2014, 09:02 AM
  #27698  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Like THIS ONE? There's a good shot of the linkage at 0:45. If that engine was in good condition it was worth @ least 2 X the asking price of $300. I've lost bids on e-bay that were higher than $600.

http://youtu.be/vdmLu13UJzs
most impressive, the force is strong with this one
Old 09-22-2014, 10:46 AM
  #27699  
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Originally Posted by hsukaria
Definitely no need for glow starter, but many glow engines start by hand and some gassers require a starter, like my CRRC-Pro 26cc needs a starter. Maybe once it is fully broken in, it might hand start.

Regarding your T-Clips nosing over, are you sure the wheels are not dragging inside the wheel pants? I have had a couple of planes that were flawed in design and would nose over. I realized that they must have been designed flying on paved runways and the developers never checked it on a grass field. Those 2 ARFs were actually from a top brand name, but I don't think Sig would ever let that slip by. I also have to switch to high-rates on the radio while taxiing because of that.

The pants were the cause of it, and my squirrly takeoffs. I removed them and found a lot of grass clippings inside. It handles short grass OK, but get into some clumps of slightly taller grass and it does not like it. I actually got it stuck once, full throttle and it would not budge. I popped the tail and it moved.
Old 09-22-2014, 11:23 AM
  #27700  
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Originally Posted by acdii
The pants were the cause of it, and my squirrly takeoffs. I removed them and found a lot of grass clippings inside. It handles short grass OK, but get into some clumps of slightly taller grass and it does not like it. I actually got it stuck once, full throttle and it would not budge. I popped the tail and it moved.
Yeah, I end up removing most of the wheel pants, except the bigger planes becaue of that. I install them for picture taking, then remove them to fly.

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