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Old 09-25-2014, 09:52 AM
  #27726  
hsukaria
 
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Originally Posted by blw
Just like all of our other hot topic things, it's a hobby and hobbies are for pure enjoyment. If you enjoy the mufflers, go for it. Sort of makes my day to hear that you have something you like.
I guess as long as hoarding mufflers is not my only enjoyment, I shouldn't worry about it.
Old 09-25-2014, 11:44 AM
  #27727  
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When I go to swap meets seems like I always come home with a new engine, recently Saito's, but got a OS and YS too. I could have come home with a few planes, but being a builder, i would be tearing it apart and redoing it, plus planes take up too much room, engines all fit on a nice shelf, and like the Golden Knight, look good sitting there too. Still wishing I had an extra $200 with me, that 300 would be on my shelf too. My collection over the past 2 years is now an OS 52, OS 70, 3 Magnum 91, a DA 100, a DLE 20, a VVRC20, a YS 110, a Saito 100, 125 and FG-11. I think 2 of the 91 will go into a B-25 once I determine what scale they will fly. The 100 will get swapped with the 125 and be put in the Cub, the 70 that is in the cub will find a home on something else eventually, probably a SIG Citabria. Everything else either has a home or is waiting to be installed on something already being built.
Old 09-25-2014, 12:23 PM
  #27728  
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Hobbsy, You sound like you might have some insight into my problem with my Saito FA 180. It runs beautifully in the upright position, idles at 2000rpm with an 18x6 APC prop while on my test bench.
Now its in my Tiger Moth biplane installed inverted but is giving me fits to get it started. The fuel tank is in the required location relative to the carb.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Rafeek
Old 09-25-2014, 03:18 PM
  #27729  
Hobbsy
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Rafeek, I am sorry to give you a disappointing response, but I am not a fan of inverted engines. I do like to side mount them. I'm sure others with more experience inverting them will chime in. Thanks
Old 09-25-2014, 04:04 PM
  #27730  
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I have read and re read of the numerous problems people have had with the FG 20. So much so that I was looking for a "wood duck" I could pass my NIB one of onto. However I heard about a carby exchange being run by the local distributers (HHQ) for the FG 20, I got the "new" one and so did a number of people around me in Cairns. None repeat none of them experienced the problems that were voiced on these forums. Mind you we all religiously followed Horizon's procedures (the Jap ones were to difficult) and I repeat no problems. I think the "uninformed" (and I was one) tinker with things a little beyond their ken and as a result build in problems. My modelling mate and I "ruled" as top dogs with YS 63's in O/T comps (reliability and consistent power) because we followed the book with what to us were new engines. (pumped, pressurised tanks and exotic props) while all the while "learning" about them.
For Sammy, I belong to a "loose organisation" called gumtree trading (name now changed to mulberry tree trading) which is a meeting of like minded individuals who trade their golden treasures for crap from other people. No money just trading. Through this process we have learnt the practise of alchemney (tuning crap into gold) developed good friends and found lots of treasure for little to no money outlay. Try it very satisfying and a good excuse to consume some beveridges.
Old 09-25-2014, 05:11 PM
  #27731  
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Ok people, just for Old Farts sake I have taken a few photos of "the shed" and the contents there in. I am actually waiting for some "bonding agent to go off" so I can resecure some covering on my ARF Bomber. If you are interested it is Bostik multibond diluted 50/50 with acetone painted on and is activated by the hot covering iron.
My dilema is how to get these photos onto the site. 'Twas explained quite a while ago but lost in the exflux of time. So advice and no Old Fart I will not disclose my address, even I know that a few thousand K will not deter the determined
Old 09-25-2014, 06:25 PM
  #27732  
rafeeki
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Rafeek, I am sorry to give you a disappointing response, but I am not a fan of inverted engines. I do like to side mount them. I'm sure others with more experience inverting them will chime in. Thanks
Thanks Hobbsy. Your not the first one to suggest that to me. I will have to look into that reconfiguration, I dont think it will be too drastic a change. Will keep u posted.
Rafeek
Old 09-25-2014, 07:37 PM
  #27733  
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I found that if the C/L of the tank is just a touch above the spray bar, they run fine. The FA 100 in my Mustang is setup that way and it runs great inverted.
Old 09-25-2014, 08:25 PM
  #27734  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Rafeek, I am sorry to give you a disappointing response, but I am not a fan of inverted engines. I do like to side mount them. I'm sure others with more experience inverting them will chime in. Thanks
All my 4-strokes are mounted inverted except one, the exception is one temporarily mounted on its side. About 3 years ago I had a Saito 180 mounted sideways and that is the only one the quit on me in flight. It turned out to be a loose carb throttle barrel guide screw (not sure the exact name). I have not had any trouble, but I know that the tuning has to change when you run it and tune it upright on a test stand and then mount it in a different orientation on a plane. I have experienced that, I had to re-tune the engine again after changing the orientation, including the low speed needle.
One benefit of mounting inverted is that there is plenty of oil accumulating in the valve rocker assembly due to gravity.
Old 09-25-2014, 08:35 PM
  #27735  
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Originally Posted by JNorton
James are you running gas? Then you should be running 28 degrees. They are using methanol.
Good point JNorton. It was negligent of me to not mention that I am using 95 octane unleaded mixed 40:1 with BellRay H1R oil.
Old 09-25-2014, 08:49 PM
  #27736  
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
I have read and re read of the numerous problems people have had with the FG 20. So much so that I was looking for a "wood duck" I could pass my NIB one of onto. However I heard about a carby exchange being run by the local distributers (HHQ) for the FG 20, I got the "new" one and so did a number of people around me in Cairns. None repeat none of them experienced the problems that were voiced on these forums. Mind you we all religiously followed Horizon's procedures (the Jap ones were to difficult) and I repeat no problems. I think the "uninformed" (and I was one) tinker with things a little beyond their ken and as a result build in problems. My modelling mate and I "ruled" as top dogs with YS 63's in O/T comps (reliability and consistent power) because we followed the book with what to us were new engines. (pumped, pressurised tanks and exotic props) while all the while "learning" about them.
For Sammy, I belong to a "loose organisation" called gumtree trading (name now changed to mulberry tree trading) which is a meeting of like minded individuals who trade their golden treasures for crap from other people. No money just trading. Through this process we have learnt the practise of alchemney (tuning crap into gold) developed good friends and found lots of treasure for little to no money outlay. Try it very satisfying and a good excuse to consume some beveridges.
I absolutely agree with you re people making their own problems by fiddling. This engine however had clear problems. It would stumble and misfire at WOT using the ignition system , and then when I swapped the sparkplug for an OS F glowplug it cleared up and revved beautifully. The original carb worked ok, but the pumping action was marginal in nose high attitudes. It was a dog to tune, and unreliable, and is now a honey.
Old 09-26-2014, 03:56 AM
  #27737  
Hobbsy
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James, that's the reason I have a plan for break in and for setting the needles. Not everyone totally agrees with the way I do one or the other but it has worked more than 40 times and 100% of the time. Fiddling leads to tail chasing and then the chaser going nuts. I like to do things in a ways that are easy to keep track of and are repeatable.

I don't recommend against inverted mounting, I just don't do it. But then I consider the engine to be as beautiful as the plane. Most of them anyway,
Old 09-26-2014, 04:34 AM
  #27738  
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Originally Posted by rafeeki
Thanks Hobbsy. Your not the first one to suggest that to me. I will have to look into that reconfiguration, I dont think it will be too drastic a change. Will keep u posted.
Rafeek
Raf don't give up and poke the 180 cylinder head out the side of the cowl unless you are flying a huge tiger and the cowl will permit that.If the 180 was upright on the test bench and ran well (easy to tune) then the tank level to carb centre line was about ten mm to low.My experience inverting saito's has been that when you do that the fuel tank in arf's is usually to high to the carb,fitting a cline regulater is the easy way out because if the tank is to high you can easily flood the engine when trying to start it or when you refuel.Because it's a taildragger once the engine has finally started after you flooded it refueling i find you need to fly them a bit and tune it off what you hear in the air.A pic with the cowl off would be handy.

Ah trev,are we due some pics of alladins cave? resize them down to 600 and post away.Just ducking out to the shed and will start pumping the trailer tyres up so i can do a midnight run to your place and 'salvage' some gear.

Huk we need to talk about making mufflers friend
Old 09-26-2014, 04:52 AM
  #27739  
Charley
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No need to get huffy, Sr. This is a discussion forum.

CR
Old 09-26-2014, 04:59 AM
  #27740  
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Huk we need to talk about making mufflers friend

I'm just a muffler hack, I need somebody to teach me. I set up a mousse can muffler once for my Fox 74 and it did not improve power over the restrictive stock muffler but added a lot of weight...big deal! One gas engine I have the muffler is held together by JB Weld.

At the Toledo Show, which is only an hour away from home, I always go hunting for mufflers. There used to be a guy there with a huge box full of old mufflers,

I do have most of my 4-strokes now on the Turboheaders, They are really nice. It is even a bigger advantage on the Saitos because you don't need the adapter unless you want to have an extra degree of freedom.
Old 09-26-2014, 05:57 AM
  #27741  
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Sammy I spent the last 10 years of a very intensive life accumulating "goodies" as did my wife. She has a heap of sewing gear, and fabric from our shop which we closed last year. Me I "accumulated" some 50 kits (the ones you build) numerous plans (I have a local kit cutter) and a lot of Saitos and some other "hot engines", mostly new but some acquired from various trades like my ED Racer with the drum intake. Like you I have little money and am about to become an OAP (old aged pensioner) next week. I consider myself lucky to be surrounded by like minded people and the means to continue my hobby and activities for some time to come. Enjoy the day take the best from it and keep on keeping on. Grow old and spend your kids inheritance. Thought for the day. Why is it a simple job like putting a new R/x and engine into an a/c takes so long. My last effort took 9 hours to refit the engine and get the 2.4 gig thingy to work. Why???
You know, Thats funny! l had a show car. It inded up a feacher car. I was in a carclub called I.C.C.A. They did all the (World Of Wheels/Autoromas) I got a pay chack just for showing up. They called it (Trailor Money) Covered gas! I was 4 points from making the 1987 caleander. Got bruned out on it! (Turned Into A Job) Lost the love for it. Started racing ATV'S till l got to OLD! Retired racing at 43. Got tired of chacing kids. Moved to Arkansas, went back to ridding in woods and model airplanes, had a big ATV crash & broke meny bones (BAD) Mama made me sale the ATV's! SO, all l got left is my airplane's. Have been burned out meney times. Was reading a mag and there was a story about (How do you know if your burned out) Said #1 lock your shop, #2 Give your wife the keys, #3 Take your wife to the mall, #4 With in a Hr, If your not ready to pry the keys to your shop from her cold dead hand's, Sale your stuff! Well it works!! I was ready to go to work after the first store visit! l love this sport, my wife loves this sport. She as bad as me for buying airplane stuff. BUT! I understand! I used to get a (KIT) on Friday and fly it on Sunday. know it takes me a mo, to install a servo?? Retirment sucks! Think it's the no pressure of it don't have to be dun right know! Love your wife1st, than love your hobby 2nd & live every day like it's your last! It maybe. Now, Go, Get to work. Build something!
Old 09-26-2014, 06:22 AM
  #27742  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Only the rc kind sammy,keep your chin up mate as fnq says.Bloody well written trev i did'nt know what oap meant just assumed it was something to do with the saito engines/hobby we all talk about here.You are right we can't have good days tuning saito's without bad ones,otherwise all your engines would always be tuned perfectly soo..no need for this forum or any other,how boring is that ?

Huk i spent a month on and off trying to figure how i could fit/squash a 115 into a midget,i have to add the word mustang or someone will make a bad joke,could be me anyhow,by the time i had it figured out minus the small do it as you go details it still took 3 nights work.That was engine only.If you are retired why rush or worry,spent all your life up to now doing just that and running saito's is spare change time wise.

Sammy over here we call taking the trash out 'bin day'
Don't forget to take the bin out ok ?
LOL...... Dun! P.S. l went flying yesterday, killed my Top Flight P47! Have been chasing Rx trouble? 2.4 is, (They say) "Problem Free". l don't know what happened? Took off, got about 10ft and it went to full down?? removed my Rx, put it into my Pizza Box & it went all over the sky! Got one Ar8000 receiver in the shop. guess l''ll send this one off too. The first one just stop'ed working?? No crash, just sat in my plane in the trailer for three mo's waiting me to get over my shoulder surgery? Funny these are $140.00 Rx's. The Hobby King Rx's, you can crash them till the case brakes and they still work?? the HK DSM2 Rx are $7.00! Go figuer?
Old 09-26-2014, 06:39 AM
  #27743  
rafeeki
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Thanks for your insight Old Fart..
I made sure that when I installed the engine in the plane to lower the fuel tank to where it should be. However after I fueld it I drew fuel into the engine by holding my finger over the muffler and turned the prop one full turn. Yes that drew the fuel in.
After several attmpts and a noisey racket coming from the engine it didnt fire.
What I will do next time is to hold the plane in diff positions while turning the prop to get any excess fuel out. Although I turned the prop in opposite direction (clockwise) and no fuel came out the muffler which is pointing down.
I will also try and start it without drawing fuel into the engine first as the starter twirls it should start.

This thing has to start........
Old 09-26-2014, 05:43 PM
  #27744  
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Raf patience can be rewarding and if that eventually fails well..there's always the beer fridge to help plan a new attack friend.After years of priming my 82's with the stock muffler fitted i could do in my sleep,you can hear when they are wet just right as you flick the prop before fitting a glow stick.To make the engine louder and lighter i fitted a pipe with pressure nipple off my fa200r3,it's different to prime now but i'll get used to it.

Raf with the cowl off try starting the engine as you said.Fit a new glow plug and refuel it first,then connect the fuel line to the carby.Set your throttle trim high and hit it with the starter,it should start within five seconds.
Old 09-27-2014, 02:51 AM
  #27745  
rcjunky67
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Not to get off topic here guy's, but I just gotta say, This Suck's. Yesterday I found out that one of the LHS's is closing it's doors after 20 years. Dang!!! I'm gonna be 48 this year and there wont be any LHS's left for me to enjoy and get what I need when I do reach the part of my life when I'll really have the time to relax and enjoy this hobby. Al I can say to you, my more seasoned brethren, is enjoy it while it last. Cause it looks like your's will be the last generation to have that available to you.

I for one really don't give a rat's ***** about buying online. Heck, Part of this hobby that makes it so great is the kinship you feel with the people you deal with,employee's and customer's alike, in these store's.And the fact that you can usually get the things you need then and there. Like I said, THIS SUCK"S
Old 09-27-2014, 03:14 AM
  #27746  
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Originally Posted by rcjunky67
Not to get off topic here guy's, but I just gotta say, This Suck's. Yesterday I found out that one of the LHS's is closing it's doors after 20 years. Dang!!! I'm gonna be 48 this year and there wont be any LHS's left for me to enjoy and get what I need when I do reach the part of my life when I'll really have the time to relax and enjoy this hobby. Al I can say to you, my more seasoned brethren, is enjoy it while it last. Cause it looks like your's will be the last generation to have that available to you.

I for one really don't give a rat's ***** about buying online. Heck, Part of this hobby that makes it so great is the kinship you feel with the people you deal with,employee's and customer's alike, in these store's.And the fact that you can usually get the things you need then and there. Like I said, THIS SUCK"S
I'm 64, been flying rc 50 years now and it has been sad to see the local shops die. Online sells have killed the business. They cannot compete with the volume online sales and the customers just aren't loyal enough. Some people don't realize all the value the local shops provide until it's too late. They have been a gathering place for hobbyists for decades. It's sad to see that go in the "new age". I've been mourning the loss of balsa kits too!

Last edited by skypup50; 09-27-2014 at 03:17 AM.
Old 09-27-2014, 03:15 AM
  #27747  
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Originally Posted by rcjunky67
Not to get off topic here guy's, but I just gotta say, This Suck's. Yesterday I found out that one of the LHS's is closing it's doors after 20 years. Dang!!! I'm gonna be 48 this year and there wont be any LHS's left for me to enjoy and get what I need when I do reach the part of my life when I'll really have the time to relax and enjoy this hobby. Al I can say to you, my more seasoned brethren, is enjoy it while it last. Cause it looks like your's will be the last generation to have that available to you.

I for one really don't give a rat's ***** about buying online. Heck, Part of this hobby that makes it so great is the kinship you feel with the people you deal with,employee's and customer's alike, in these store's.And the fact that you can usually get the things you need then and there. Like I said, THIS SUCK"S
Not only is online buying closing down the LHSs, Cut-throat online retailers like Hobby King W/their piss-poor customer service are putting a hurt on more reputable, customer service oriented sources.

Its the Walmart mentality.
Old 09-27-2014, 07:37 AM
  #27748  
blw
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I've never had an inverted engine. I just never saw the need. I have a 4 Star 20 halfway built for a Saito 30 GK mounted on it's side. That should look really good.

Robert, what are you going to do about getting glow fuel?

I have mixed feelings about LHS buying and online buying. I can't and won't pay double the price for things at the LHS and things like balancers, starters, etc are priced twice the online price. Sorry, but I'm not paying when it comes to tools and the big ticket items. But, I do try and buy all of the other stuff there. It does bother me that there is basically no prop selection there. The 12" prop bin has had the same 4 old MA props gathering dust for a couple of years. No exaggeration. I get him to order my kits when I'm buying them. But, I buy online if I save serious money. Saitos were priced about $40 over the Horizon price most of the time. Add 9% tax and you are overpaying a good bit. It's a dilemma because I like the owner and want to see him succeed, but I like my money too.
Old 09-27-2014, 11:59 AM
  #27749  
rafeeki
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Originally Posted by rcjunky67
Not to get off topic here guy's, but I just gotta say, This Suck's. Yesterday I found out that one of the LHS's is closing it's doors after 20 years. Dang!!! I'm gonna be 48 this year and there wont be any LHS's left for me to enjoy and get what I need when I do reach the part of my life when I'll really have the time to relax and enjoy this hobby. Al I can say to you, my more seasoned brethren, is enjoy it while it last. Cause it looks like your's will be the last generation to have that available to you.

I for one really don't give a rat's ***** about buying online. Heck, Part of this hobby that makes it so great is the kinship you feel with the people you deal with,employee's and customer's alike, in these store's.And the fact that you can usually get the things you need then and there. Like I said, THIS SUCK"S

My LHS matches the online prices from Horizon and Tower and then some (no shipping). Have a one on one talk with your LHS's owner and see how accomodating he can be. Mine is. I and other club members support him all the time. G&G Griffith, IN. Owner is Larry.
Old 09-27-2014, 01:18 PM
  #27750  
rcjunky67
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Originally Posted by blw

Robert, what are you going to do about getting glow fuel?

I have mixed feelings about LHS buying and online buying. I can't and won't pay double the price for things at the LHS and things like balancers, starters, etc are priced twice the online price. Sorry, but I'm not paying when it comes to tools and the big ticket items. But, I do try and buy all of the other stuff there. It does bother me that there is basically no prop selection there. The 12" prop bin has had the same 4 old MA props gathering dust for a couple of years. No exaggeration. I get him to order my kits when I'm buying them. But, I buy online if I save serious money. Saitos were priced about $40 over the Horizon price most of the time. Add 9% tax and you are overpaying a good bit. It's a dilemma because I like the owner and want to see him succeed, but I like my money too.
DANG IT!!! Thanks blw, I'd not even considered fuel. I have two other shop's that aren't nearly as local, almost 50 mile round trip. That's gonna be another thing I'll have to deal with,right now I've got about 3 gallons waiting in the locker. But I know it won't take long to go through that.

I understand what you mean about the $$$,and I agree, when it comes time to spend big buck's outta my meeger little hobby fund, I will for sure get the most bang outta my buck's. And the one that's closing is just like that with their prop's too. But still, all else considered,for the little stuff and homey feeling of familiarity that only comes from a place that you frequent a lot,there's just no way to replace that.

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