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Old 11-05-2014, 02:05 PM
  #28026  
FNQFLYER
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Old Fart problem with Bolly props is they sell "direct" and only in bulk and one size at a time. I have bought (for friends) single items from the distributor in the US. Silly situation but I can understand the shops not buying a committment of several thousand for 1 size of prop is a lot. They are made in China as I understand and the Bolly organisation is based in South Aust. You have Sherlock props over there in the west and they are worth a look. They build "specials" and lots of good props for control line racing, (their forte).
On neighbours back in they day when I worked shift work I had a neighbour tha liked to run his mower on days that I was working nights, usually at around 0800hrs. Didn't like it when I started mowing at 0400 when I got home. And the the other one with the expanding incinerator. It was a very smokey device that expanded after a 4 litre (plastic bottle) was put in it amongst the other plastic he was burning off.
Flying day today, methinks, as to the 125 put it in the collection you might have a need and if the owner turns up you can have a go at him for leaving it at your place all this time. Alternately you could bring it with you to the Nats and I'll treat you to some southern QLD reds and you could leave it behind, you know forget to take it home.
Old 11-05-2014, 02:09 PM
  #28027  
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Old Fart on wooden props, apart from lack of "weight" the biggest problem is hub compression. Most prominent with single nut applications. Better with multiple bolts through hub. Oil and water contamnation is next followed by the obvious splintering. If they last long enough the hub compression leads to shaft runs and all sorts of other nasties. Similar problems with full size a/c. However they look nice and you can generally turn "larger" props than the plastics and composites.
Old 11-06-2014, 04:23 AM
  #28028  
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
I dropped the 125 off with a tank of gas for the Barbee on the way through from Canada a while ago. We got into some serious "reminiscing" and think you forgot it all

No, really want to get down that way sometimes.
Arr you're from bc bud ? so your the guy that gave me a black eye and the hangover.
Old 11-06-2014, 04:38 AM
  #28029  
Rudolph Hart
 
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Old Fart problem with Bolly props is they sell "direct" and only in bulk and one size at a time. I have bought (for friends) single items from the distributor in the US. Silly situation but I can understand the shops not buying a committment of several thousand for 1 size of prop is a lot. They are made in China as I understand and the Bolly organisation is based in South Aust. You have Sherlock props over there in the west and they are worth a look. They build "specials" and lots of good props for control line racing, (their forte).
On neighbours back in they day when I worked shift work I had a neighbour tha liked to run his mower on days that I was working nights, usually at around 0800hrs. Didn't like it when I started mowing at 0400 when I got home. And the the other one with the expanding incinerator. It was a very smokey device that expanded after a 4 litre (plastic bottle) was put in it amongst the other plastic he was burning off.
Flying day today, methinks, as to the 125 put it in the collection you might have a need and if the owner turns up you can have a go at him for leaving it at your place all this time. Alternately you could bring it with you to the Nats and I'll treat you to some southern QLD reds and you could leave it behind, you know forget to take it home.
I'm quoting you in full because i've never figured out how to just take bit's out you would like to comment on.Maybe hobbsy can fill in the american side of the story re bolly props and see what their supply is like.Re the 125 there might be a few people here saying you are unvalueing the engine for a cheap glass of red wine,and that they really might be the under revving pigs that everyone else is saying they are
Old 11-06-2014, 05:25 AM
  #28030  
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Arr you're from bc bud ?
Wrong end of the country. I did have two kids living there for a while, though.
Old 11-06-2014, 09:13 AM
  #28031  
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I've got to agree with OF on APC props. It's what they do in the air regardless of that the tach says on the ground. I have a few Bolly's that Dar Zeelon sent me and they are staying in the bin with the other unused props. I would give them to someone if they wanted them.

Good products from Australia include Minelab which makes the world's best metal detectors. I had two of those and just sold my Explorer. I was just too nervous about that big magnetic coil on the end of a shaft and my pacemaker a few feet away. Also, there's WinRadio. They make some pretty hot computer radios and the newer generation radios. They are a well known company, but it's the Italians who have the lead in that right now.
Old 11-06-2014, 12:45 PM
  #28032  
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blw, if those Bolly props are carbon ones (black) I'll have as many as you want to give away, if they are the clubmans forget it. I have used a couple and will stick with APC props.
Old 11-06-2014, 12:46 PM
  #28033  
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Old Fart, for the good guts on Bolly check out their website, Bolly props. Tells you all I currently know which is not very much bout their current operations.
Old 11-07-2014, 01:00 AM
  #28034  
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Will do that trev.Off the forum for a few days now the big truck rolls up at lunchtime tomorrow (saturday) so i've got lots to do.Who thinks we should should have a mini poll right here on the props we use and why we use them?? on our saito fourstrokes.I'm going to be off the air for a few days so if you don't mind i'll start first...(you'll be sooooorryy ) I like all the apc sizes i use because i can't find anything better but they are not faultless.If you like doing lot's of touch and go's with a tailwheeler and steep approaches prop strikes do occur,with the apc props i don't know what size batches they make and whether there is more than one maker.What i see is some you can gently shave the ends off till it becomes a 13x6 but started out as a 14x6.Others shatter the tips and i'm happy to concede that i've never hit the ground the same way twice so it's not a scientific thing more a general feeling about what you like to fly on a nice fourstroke engine.Now..a confession.At times i've bought props for my saito's because i'm a yuppie colour blind fashionista who likes a bit of 'bling' when it comes to wanting a nice looking accessory (and surely propellors are that are'nt they?) for a new aeroplane.What a pity apc's are so plain jane good now don't muck about guys,have a say and see what other people use too,you might be surprised if you put a better prop on and have to re tune the trusty saito...what do you think ?
Old 11-07-2014, 04:54 AM
  #28035  
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Pete, I've never been impressed with APC props, when you fly them absolutely nothing changes from whatever you had on there in the first place. But then I can't tell if a plane is going 49 mph or 50 mph so maybe its me. I have about 5 of them and two came with the .25" pilot holes drilled on a slant and no matter how well you secure the prop, the reamer follows the slant and you end up with an oval shaped hole on one side or the other. And this is even when using a B&B reamer with a .25" starter on the drill bit.

I sent Barry a PM about those Bollys, I have roughly 15 of them now and none has needed re-balanced.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:53 AM
  #28036  
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So far only flown APC props on the Saitos. Have used MA on the DLE, Magnum, and OS, but the APC's seem to make the planes perform better. I think its the fact that the MA props flex more, saw it happen with the Saito 100 on the P-51. I swapped out the MA for an APC right after that, and the engine ran better.
Old 11-07-2014, 09:02 AM
  #28037  
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Yeah, mine are the brown Clubman types.

I guess I can tell differences in performance, like vertical performance, throttle position for cruise, acceleration, etc. I think you have to have a wide range of flight regimes. Traffic patterns won't tell you much in most cases. A stall turn is a good test for a lot of things like props, control surfaces, decalage, etc.

Checking rpm on the ground tells you nothing useful. The formula to rate a props performance is really based on two velocities. There is the static air velocity & volume going through on the ground and there is the velocity and amount going through the prop at airspeed. You add those together for a final value. This makes it clear where larger props usually have more power, which generally applies to Saitos. That low torque and larger prop is putting a lot air going through the prop disk. I guess I'm saying all of this to show that the props do differ and smarter types figure out ways to tell us how much.

There is a bit of unpredictable smoke and mirrors in all of this too. Cowl shape, spinners, exposed prop hubs, draggy parts behind the prop, etc all make a difference in how the prop will perform.

I've never broken the tip of an APC and everybody is talking about that happening. I know I've hit the ground with the prop tips often enough.
Old 11-07-2014, 10:00 AM
  #28038  
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Anyone interested in an FA-80GK. I have a used one for sale with good compression. Runs good. Not sure what it's worth but, will start with asking $115? Make an offer.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:24 AM
  #28039  
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Aww man, wish I had $115, I would buy it!
Old 11-07-2014, 02:55 PM
  #28040  
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So would I, I did order four of those H9 mounts pictured. Too many holes from too many different engines on my H9 Alpha 60 and XT.
Old 11-08-2014, 06:36 AM
  #28041  
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Hi guys.

I'm fairly new to all things Saito, and I'm just getting around to installing a Saito 180 into a BF109.

By the looks of things, I'll have to mount the engine inverted.

Is there anything fancy I have to do to mount the motor upside down? The Carburettor normally faces 'down' with venturi inlet pointing to the bottom of the crankcase. If I mount the motor inverted, do I also have to swing the Carbie assembly around 180 degress (so the venturi inlet now points 'up' towards the glowplug) ?

Also, I'm all out of OS F glowplugs - the only one I have available just now is an OS #8. Will that run ok in the 180? Or should I wait until I can get an OS F?

BJ
Old 11-08-2014, 07:00 AM
  #28042  
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You dont need to do anything special to the motor mounting it inverted. Just make sure the centerline of the tank is even with the spraybar in the carb. Inverting it drops the spraybar down, so you may need to lower your tank or it will flood the engine. As for plugs, see if you can find a Fox Miracle if you cant get the OS. I wouldn't run any other than recommended in it. Some guys mount it slightly off straight down, with the exhaust rocker at dead bottom.
Old 11-08-2014, 10:42 AM
  #28043  
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BJ, Yours is a very basic question that I havent seen a clear answer to yet. Just so that you know I have the same configuration but on a Tiger moth and I did line up the center of tank with the center of spray bar. Works well. Although make sure u use the factory setting on your needle valve on initial set up. This engine (Saito FA 180, 4 stroke) is known to throw props.

The clarification I was looking for is the relationship of the carb/ venturi pipe to the fuel tank. Can that pipe be swung around and pointed in any direction (up, down, sideways) as long as the center lines of spray bar and fuel tank are in line?????????
I guess this question applies to all 4 stroke engines with similar configurations (rear mounted carb/ venturi).

Thanks

Rafeek
Old 11-08-2014, 11:35 AM
  #28044  
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It doesn't matter at all which way it points if it helps line up the spray bar and tank center line.
Old 11-08-2014, 11:38 AM
  #28045  
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BJ64, welcome to club Saito. You will quickly come to love their quality and performance.

However, a couple of pointers, one specific to Saito and another that would be a good procedure to practice regardless of make/model.

First off, Saito do not seem to like running lean, especially at high throttle. If lean they can come to an IMMEDIATE stop and even the Safety Lock system will likely not retain the propellor. I know this one for a fact.

You will need to read the tune and break in procedure specific to that engine, but there should be someone with quick info on LS and HS needle settings for that one.

Second to be used for any and all makes, DO NOT go above idle if anyone within or forward of the prop plane. If you have any prop flaw or the aforementioned lean condition a blade or entire prop can eject at high speeds and energies. I see far too many vids and other examples of this practice and all make me cringe.

On the same note, when mounting inverted fuel/oil can pool above the piston. Always make it a good habit of flipping the engine by hand with glow heat OFF before attempting to start. This will help prevent what is called "Hydrolock" where incompressible fuel and oil accumulate in the combustion chamber. If forced you can do mechanical damage and hand propping first should let you feel that condition. If present all that is required is to reorient the engine/craft to let the oil drain. Worst case you simply pull the plug and spin the motor over.



Orienting the centerline of the tank to the carb is relevant to all 2-and 4-stroke engines that use the standard exhaust pressure feed system due to changes in mixture as the tank drains from full to empty. By setting it up for mid-fuel level you would minimize any drastic changes in mixture that may occur as fuel is burned off.

If using a pumped engine or some type with check valve/regulator you can use that system to optimize fuel burn independent of fuel tank level.

Last edited by Cougar429; 11-08-2014 at 11:43 AM.
Old 11-08-2014, 11:41 AM
  #28046  
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You can mount the carb anywhere you want as long as the length of pipe from carb to intake is the same. The real question is, how would you secure the carb to the motor then?



I am back to working on my Cub and discovered the fuel tank is way too high(Following what I mentioned above with tank relation). Bummer, to lower the tank to fit would be a major undertaking since the plane is nearly finished, all construction is done, just a matter of putting the windows, door and radio in.

Back to refitting a smaller engine now since it is setup for a side mount. When mounted sideways the tank is perfectly aligned. Problem is the 100 GK is WAY too large for a side mount, would have to fly it without a cowl. I will give it a once over to see what it takes to lower the tank floor, but IIRC it is locked in to the sides and firewall.


Oh if only I could afford another FG-11 or 14.
Old 11-08-2014, 11:45 AM
  #28047  
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acdii, there are regulator systems such as Cline that can help if tank level is a problem.
Old 11-08-2014, 11:50 AM
  #28048  
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The 1.20, 1.50 and 1.80 carbs and manifolds can be rotated almost 360 degrees, the exhaust might block it there. By loosening the black nut at the top of the intake pipe you can spin the carb and manifold around.
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Old 11-08-2014, 12:07 PM
  #28049  
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Well thats cool, didn't know they did that, all the ones I have bolt to the case.

I will look into the regulator, if I can afford it, will give it a try. So that will prevent a too high tank from flooding the carb?


EDIT: $75 too rich for me at this point. Dropping the tank is out too since it would place it right where the throttle cable is. Looks like the 70 will be the choice.

Last edited by acdii; 11-08-2014 at 12:47 PM.
Old 11-08-2014, 03:27 PM
  #28050  
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Great info - thanks a lot, guys

BJ

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