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Old 01-04-2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
I think my 91's are the only ones without bushed con rods. Of all of my engines, that size was THE ONLY size to ever wipe one out, (crank end). Obviously, overheating didn't help.

Spaceworm, do you have a link to that Sceptre update?
Here is a copy of the update, but it is listed in the Sceptre index as the FA65 update model. see post 28366 for link to Sceptre


Model Engine Tests
Saito FA-65 update model


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Old 01-04-2015, 06:14 PM
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OK I did some research and the crank shown in the C.Lee review is the same crank that is in my engine and probably yours. It is an early version. A poster on Groups said he had one bow between the bearing. I have a later crank I got off ebay a good while back, I was going to put it in my rebuilt .65 but figured what the heck just leave it stock. I may just tear it down and replace the old crank with the new one. This is my second 65 to rebuild. The first has a new AAC cylinder, new conrod, new late version crank, new cam,new cam lifters and a set of new ceramic bearings and a replacement of every gasket and O ring. My only concern with replaceing the crank in my latest rebuild is the older bushed con rod is heaver by over a gram than the unbushed one. I wonder if the new cranks counter balance is lighter than the older version.

Last edited by rc lifer; 01-04-2015 at 06:23 PM.
Old 01-04-2015, 06:44 PM
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cougar- I purchased a used .72 that had a seized lower conrod. When I got the new replacement I found it has a slot cut into the bottom end that will allow more oil to get to the
crank pin than the two holes the original had. It had seized from crud plugging the two lube holes. The other .72s I have (4) still have the original conrods. No crud in those engines though.
Old 01-04-2015, 07:03 PM
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Not sure on the counterbalance, but to be prudent I would check on that new conrod before swapping cranks just to be sure. Likely if the rod is lighter something has to be set up for balance.

I found Fox does something unusual in my Eagle IV 60's where one side of the counterweight on the crank has been cut away more than the other. Reported to make for better dynamic balance and a smoother running engine.

rcflyer, does the 72 have a bushed rod? Could not tell in the pics or write up, but looks bare. What lube type were you running in the one that clogged? I use a semi/castor mix and never encountered that. Only time I had gumming was when I added a metal conditioner to my after run oil. Should have stuck with my standard mix.
Old 01-04-2015, 07:50 PM
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Cougar-No bushings in the 72 conrod, neither the old or new. I was surprised to see the bushings on the older 65,as its the first bushed rod I have seen in a Saito. The lubrication holes are quit small and only one on each end.
I dont know what was used in the 72 that seized, it came to me in that condition. I got it from a flying buddy who bought a plane that had the 72 in it. He bought the combo at the field one day. The evening of the day he bought it, we ran it and after about a minute of idle he brought the rpms, and thunk! So since he owed me some bucks from an earlier deal we made, we made an other deal for the 72. I really did not need a 5th 72,but I wanted to know what happened to it, as I had never seen one come to a dead stop like that. Now I know. I really need to thin the line up I have to many engines and not enough planes. Or maybe I just need more planes!

Last edited by rc lifer; 01-04-2015 at 07:52 PM.
Old 01-05-2015, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by nashtm
Hi

My Saito 125 has been packed away for 5 years (with after run). Its feels stiff now - what should I do before running it agian?
Throw it in the bin,just kidding

Cap some good suggestions for your 300 if you are not hell bent on selling it,they make good horsepower no matter what fuel you run in them.

Trev it's been two months of frustration with ip servers and getting reconnected,i can hear dave heave a sigh of relief right now do you guys think running ceramic bearings is the answer for lazy people who don't run after run oil or,would the people who fit ceramic bearings or rings be so pernickity anyway that it renders the first question obsolete? and what if any performance gain could you expect.On a lighter note if you compare ceramics that you may have at home such as a vase for holding flowers(or your stash)say,they look mighty nice but are known to be delicate/fragile...what do you think?
Old 01-05-2015, 05:14 AM
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Hey there Pete, welcome back, hope you had a nice Christmas and enjoy a great new year. I'll have to check some of my engines for bushed rods. I know my old high compression .80 has a bushed rod, I don't whether my old FA .40 or the FA .40 with the removable head has bushings, or not. It takes mere minutes to check.
As to the ceramic bearings, I have a set of ceramic bearings from BOCA in a Fox .50 Diesel conversion, they're in there and for the most part, out of sight and out of mind. I did manage to move them from one Fox .50 crankcase, I broke it, to another without destroying them.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 01-05-2015 at 05:22 AM.
Old 01-05-2015, 06:51 AM
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O.F. - I have wondered about the merits of ceramic bearings, but was not interested enough to pay the extra money to try them. Then I had an opportunity to purchase a set for a 65 for 9$ from a guy, who got some in a trade, and had no plans to use them. They were new in the package from BOCA, so since they were less expensive than a standard set, I picked them up to try them out. I have yet to run the engine I put them in, so can't report anything yet. I don't expect any performance gain, maybe in the high rpm performance two strokes you might gain something.
Hobbsy- How did you remove the ceramic bearings from your Fox 50?
Old 01-05-2015, 08:36 AM
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Good morning everyone,

I own a Saito FA91 that I have completely rebuilt and I'm planning on using it on a SIG Hog-Bipe with a Pitts style muffler. The problem is I am having GREAT difficulty finding a Pitts style muffler for FA91. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good source for this muffler?

Thank you,
Old 01-05-2015, 09:11 AM
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PSB, all my current Saito cowl rigs are side mounted with Slimline mufflers like this on Rare Bear. Fit tight to the bottom with double outlets that can be shortened if necessary. I have not found the need to. I did mod the mount to clear on this one and have not had any problem.

They are light, fit well and I have not had one come loose or leak yet. I did break the outlets loose on one when deciding to land with the gear up. Not the fault of the exhaust and getting it repaired locally.

I believe they also make setups for inverted installations.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:42 AM
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RC, I have a 4" drywall screw that I ground one side of the head very thin. It will fit between the inner race and the crankcase, I just tap the bearing, (gently) out using a phenolic hammer.
PSB, the TurboHeader by RCSpecialties will do your job too and give you couple of hundred top rpm to boot. The 90 degree adapter makes it possible to pretty much mount it any way you need it.

www.rcspecialties.com
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:19 PM
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Old Fart, good to see you back. On the ceramic thing, Don Howie did the ceramic thing on an Enya 53 and with a bit more steroids (nitro) he gace our YS 63's a run for the money. This mod plus a perry pump (to iron out the low end hiccups with rapid accel) really made the old enya shift. Hence the reason for the future experiment. Will happen with the first rebuild of one of the 65's. Currently I am putting together a Phoenix Boomerang 60. This would have to be the best ARF (of the very very few) that I have ever put together. My flying (of 4 + channels) went into retrograd after the first eye op so it is back to basics for now. I am going to power the beast (74 inch w/s flaps as well as the usual 4 channel stuff and will weigh in at about 5 pound+) with my NIB Saito 85 running a 13x6 Master Airscrew. See right back to basics. Not much news on the nationals or anything else but it is not my turn to worry this month and next month I get the other eye done. The rain over here means that the first priority is mowing grass (1/2 acre worth) because you can hear the stuff growing. How are you going with the bush fires? Doesn't look good, I was involved with the 83 Ash wednesday fires in Victoria and almost lost a Cessna 185 to a grass fire in FNQ a couple of years ago so I say better you than me my man but in any case stay safe
Old 01-05-2015, 04:55 PM
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Does the Turbo Muffler really help?
Old 01-05-2015, 06:43 PM
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I believe it's initial purpose was to make easy installs in a cowled plane, however the added rpm in most engines is a bonus. It also has a cool sound. In my own experience the Saito 1.25 was the only one that did not respond, I haven't tried it on the newer 1.25 with the greater angle between the valves and more cooling fin area. We have seen increased rpm on here from 200 to 360 depending on which Saito. I can't speak on other brands.
Old 01-06-2015, 05:55 AM
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Hobbsy, that newer gen 125 based on the FG bits? Are they interchangeable with the earlier versions?
Old 01-06-2015, 08:02 AM
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Hey Cougar, I just got off the phone with Jim, the 1.25 B cylinder is the one you want. The FG has a smaller intake pipe. The B has the same valve angle spread and the additional cooling as the FG.
Old 01-06-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Hey Cougar, I just got off the phone with Jim, the 1.25 B cylinder is the one you want. The FG has a smaller intake pipe. The B has the same valve angle spread and the additional cooling as the FG.
Similar situation as the FA-180B cylinders. Same casting & critical geometry, different intake manifold provisions. I sold my three brand new FA-180 cylinders & bought three FA-180B cylinders for my radial project. With the added operating temperatiures of CDI in an enclosed cowl, I wanted all the cooling I could get.
Old 01-06-2015, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by n8rloves2fly
Does the Turbo Muffler really help?
Get your measurements first with a Turboheader muffler, as the fit is very different than other Saito manifold/muffler combinations.

Also, pay attention to the vent line nipple location. It sometimes ends up in an impossible to use position. Not bad mouthing the Turboheader, but it makes your engine a whole different sized engine. And, the vent line issue can be a show stopper.
Old 01-06-2015, 02:00 PM
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Naah, it's about a 3 minute job to move it.
Old 01-07-2015, 02:27 AM
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The turboheader muffler does sound different,they are very compact and sometimes don't exit the cowl far enough.You can fit a saito flex tube to the head and mount the muffler to that.

Dave a pix of the drywall screw tool would be cool when you have time,or an old fashioned lead pencil and white paper dia would be better,it sounds interesting.

Trev hope the eyes come good mate.A 13x6 is on the small side for an fa85??
The bushfires are a bit n/e of me,rode the duke through there last sunday and the hills and swervery was awesome relaxing.Last monday the mercury hit 44.4c or how does the old saying go? 110f in the waterbag.Spent the whole day blocking (sanding down ripple free) harley mc fuel tanks and fenders for a nice black gloss paint job.The spraybooth temp gauge sat on plus fifty c most of the day,the factory is tin cladded,so bit of a sweatshop atmosphere.
Old 01-07-2015, 05:42 AM
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Pete, do you build those tanks or re-finish existing ones. I can take a picture of said jackleg tool.
Old 01-07-2015, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by n8rloves2fly
Does the Turbo Muffler really help?
My experience with Turboheaders has been very good. I am using them on a Saito 90, an OS 70, and a Thunder Tiger 75. If on a Saito that is mounted vertical (upright or inverted), you won't need the adapter unless you want the added degree of freedom. I did have the pressure nipple limit the orientation in one of my applications. But I just re-oriented the muffler a bit. The other trick is in tight cowled planes, you would have to mount the muffler loosely first, then install the cowl, then line up and tighten the muffler as required because the bend in the muffler makes it hard to install after the cowl is installed.

In all counts, I got good performance and nice sound.
Old 01-07-2015, 07:16 AM
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Cougar429, and Hobbsy,
Thank you for you suggestions. I have decided to go with the Slimline Pitts Style exhaust on the Saito FA91. It looks like it will fit my needs. I might have to cut the cowling a little more than I was hoping but I can make it work.

Thanks again,
Old 01-07-2015, 12:36 PM
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Old Fart actually the 13x6 is for the ASP60 two stroke alternate I was considering, I will use a 14x8 or x6 if I use the 85. It is a weight and balance thing and as I have an adversion to putting useless weight into a model I will use the engine and battery combo that best achieves my aims. The 85 is slated for the Fokker DV11 so if it goes into the trainer then all to the good as it will have air time on an "expendable" model. Rain here is keeping me in the yard but today looks good so hopefully I will have the first fly of the new year later. You haven't got any VLAD laws over there have you? Newman goes to the polls at the end of the month and that is one of the things that will be "discussed". Catch Ya
Old 01-07-2015, 12:53 PM
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A manifold extension would be nice to have. I had to take my Turboheader off of a cowled model and go back to the stock muffler. I made the mistake of assuming the TH would fit and happily built the model and cut the cowl for the 82 to sit upright. I've never had to cut for a Saito muffler before so i didn't expect it.

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