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Old 03-24-2015, 09:22 AM
  #28951  
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Originally Posted by Charley
FNQ,

You post about the XY GTHO piqued my interest. That was some car! Also read about Evan Green and the "Supercar Scare." Typical knee-jerk politicians. That guy Green sure shot everyone in the foot, including himself. I got a kick out of the solid-lifter Cleveland V8 being called "the rattler."

I came by a Saito .82 mounted in an airplane I picked up. Great running engine.

CR
Was that engine the Racing Boss 351, or the Ford 335 engine Cleveland-based Boss 351? My memory escapes me and I am too lazy to look it up. Until Saito makes a V8, I don't care much about them, or Ford.

Sincerely, Richard
Old 03-24-2015, 09:29 AM
  #28952  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
...richard,get out of the house and exercise a bit...
.
whoa, you must be talking to either be my wife, who wants me out of the house for any reason, or my doctor who wants me out to get some exercise. i am just waiting for global warming to take effect and melt down some of this snow, then i am out of here!
sincerely, richard (notice, no caps)
Old 03-24-2015, 01:33 PM
  #28953  
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Uh Oh Richard, I think I'm in trouble, well only half trouble, I'm a Ford nut and a Saito nut. You have to be aware that a lot of folks who think they have a Cleveland 351 don't. The Cleveland's aren't' all that common. One telltale difference, Cleveland has thermostat housing bolts vertical, facing up, Windsor has thermostat housing bolts horizontal, facing forward.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 03-24-2015 at 01:48 PM.
Old 03-24-2015, 02:35 PM
  #28954  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
Was that engine the Racing Boss 351, or the Ford 335 engine Cleveland-based Boss 351? My memory escapes me and I am too lazy to look it up. Until Saito makes a V8, I don't care much about them, or Ford.

Sincerely, Richard
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_XY_Falcon_GT

Lots of info & links from there.

CR
Old 03-24-2015, 03:43 PM
  #28955  
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My XY was a cleveland engined device. I got it from Bill Brown (Ford Boss in OZ at the time) after he heard that I had got a Monaro Bathurst 350 from George Shepard. At Ansett we had (at the time) the only combined vertical and horizontal milling machine in the southern hemisphere capable of handling large lumps of metal. Like wise we had the only large autoclave capable of handling large pieces of fibreglass components. Thus we were the place to go for that stuff. Like the boat that bought home the Americas Cup. Our new 767 hangar housed te boat during its final preps before going to Newport. Yes mine was a 351 Cleveland, had to be no bigger because of the 5 litre rule for engine capacity. Just a bit more Holden produced a little 6 cylinder toy called the XU1 that actually beat both the big V8's bags of power, "good fuel consumption" and handled like all of the in comparison to today's beats like a bucket of excrement. But they were fun. Lastly most of this era cars can run the socks of the current V* Super Cars when fitted with the same compound rubber and competent drivers on board. I am rambling and I am going back to the DVII construction, what a magnificent kit (for an ARF), I will keep you updated if you wish
Old 03-24-2015, 04:50 PM
  #28956  
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
.. Yes mine was a 351 Cleveland, had to be no bigger because of the 5 litre rule for engine capacity..
Isn't a 351 5.8 litres?

That's kinda a bit bigger than 5 litres.

Or did the rules back then say 'under 6 litres'?

It's a bit confusing, cos the L34 and A9X Torana's were all 5 litres, but the HOey and the earlier Monaro were 351 and 350 ci IIRC.

BJ
Old 03-25-2015, 02:12 AM
  #28957  
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I left one of the reasons for the different thermostat configurations is the Cleveland has a dry manifold, no water flows through it.
Old 03-25-2015, 04:20 AM
  #28958  
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5 Liters is 305 cu in.

Most 5 Liter V8s utilize a 4" bore & 3" stroke which nets 302 .cu in.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 03-25-2015 at 04:27 AM.
Old 03-25-2015, 04:55 AM
  #28959  
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Someone's gonna talk about shootin soon
Old 03-25-2015, 07:31 AM
  #28960  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Someone's gonna talk about shootin soon
As a matter of fact I took my Dad's 30/40 Krag, a Savage AXIS-II 7mm-08 & my center fire conversion 5mm Remington Magnum to the range yesterday.
Old 03-25-2015, 08:06 AM
  #28961  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
As a matter of fact I took my Dad's 30/40 Krag, a Savage AXIS-II 7mm-08 & my center fire conversion 5mm Remington Magnum to the range yesterday.
I feel like a sissy!! I had to cook supper for the kids yesterday!! But at least I did some engine work and plane re-covering to make up for it.
Old 03-25-2015, 11:46 AM
  #28962  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Someone's gonna talk about shootin soon
I thought about shooting an Armadillo that's digging holes in the side yard. Does that count?

CR
Old 03-25-2015, 12:18 PM
  #28963  
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Originally Posted by Charley
I thought about shooting an Armadillo that's digging holes in the side yard. Does that count?

CR
If you are really macho, you would shoot it and eat it too!!! But since I am not that "macho", I will just bench run an engine this evening, maybe even a Saito!!! No shooting allowed in my neighborhood, even though I get racoons, possums, and deer in my backyard sometimes.
Old 03-25-2015, 01:22 PM
  #28964  
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Yep, the old 302/5 litre is really a 301.44, the new one is 302.5, go figure. The Boss 302 had the Cleveland style heads.
Old 03-25-2015, 01:51 PM
  #28965  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Someone's gonna talk about shootin soon
Not ME !
Old 03-25-2015, 02:14 PM
  #28966  
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I'm rebuilding a Saito-82 that I've been running on an UltraStick for several years. The bearings needed to be replaced so I decided a complete overhaul was warranted. Inspecting the cam gear gave me reason for concern. Here are a couple of photos that illustrate what I've found...



The indentations in the face of both of the lobes bothered me. I have a couple of other Saitos (ones I bought used) that have been disassembled and the lobe surfaces on those are smooth. One of our local club members suggested that it could have been in the casting, but given the Saito quality I'm not comfortable with that idea. In addition, the tappets appear to be just slightly beveled on opposite edges on each one.

So the question is, is this normal wear? If not, any suggestions as to what might have caused the damage? Replacement tappets and a cam gear are currently in stock so I'm inclined to think that this would be the way to go to recover this engine. It's been a super performer so I'm no where near ready to retire it to the parts bin.

Rick...
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:28 PM
  #28967  
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If it was mine they would be replaced in a heart beat . I dont think its going to get better by itself and if you start to get little bits of metal floating around that cant be good . I would imagine it gets softer the further it wears down . I like my engines to be in good condition just knowing they were like that would get to me and while its apart thats the perfect time to do it . Whats the replacement parts cost by the way ? Cheers the pope
Old 03-25-2015, 02:40 PM
  #28968  
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Originally Posted by RH
I'm rebuilding a Saito-82 that I've been running on an UltraStick for several years. The bearings needed to be replaced so I decided a complete overhaul was warranted. Inspecting the cam gear gave me reason for concern. Here are a couple of photos that illustrate what I've found...



The indentations in the face of both of the lobes bothered me. I have a couple of other Saitos (ones I bought used) that have been disassembled and the lobe surfaces on those are smooth. One of our local club members suggested that it could have been in the casting, but given the Saito quality I'm not comfortable with that idea. In addition, the tappets appear to be just slightly beveled on opposite edges on each one.

So the question is, is this normal wear? If not, any suggestions as to what might have caused the damage? Replacement tappets and a cam gear are currently in stock so I'm inclined to think that this would be the way to go to recover this engine. It's been a super performer so I'm no where near ready to retire it to the parts bin.

Rick...
That looks like the result of running with excessive valve lash.

Replacing both the tappets and cam is in order.

Set he valve lash (cold) at .0015". (.04mm) Re-check after initial break in & after the 1st gallon of fuel is run thorough. After that, once every season.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 03-25-2015 at 02:47 PM.
Old 03-25-2015, 02:52 PM
  #28969  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
That looks like the result of running with excessive valve lash.

Replacing both the tappets and cam is in order.

Set he valve lash (cold) at .0015". (.04mm) Re-check after initial break in & after the 1st gallon of fuel is run thorough. After that, once every season.
What!! We're actually talking about Saitos?!!
Old 03-25-2015, 03:05 PM
  #28970  
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As Jim Neighbors would say: Surprise! Surprise!

Mind you, fishing season starts here soon.

RH, as SrTelemaster150 states, never change just the cam. The bottom of the lifters will be toast, as well.

Last edited by Cougar429; 03-25-2015 at 03:08 PM.
Old 03-25-2015, 03:26 PM
  #28971  
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
As Jim Neighbors would say: Surprise! Surprise!

Mind you, fishing season starts here soon.

RH, as SrTelemaster150 states, never change just the cam. The bottom of the lifters will be toast, as well.
Well, if you do ice fishing, then that will be over soon. So, it is just a different "mode" of fishing.

Cougar429, looks like I most likely WILL be able to show up at Toledo on Friday. It will be after a whole day of cross-country driving. So, no telling when I will show up at the Show. I might bring my Fox 74 and have you look at it and see what you think.
Old 03-25-2015, 03:33 PM
  #28972  
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
As Jim Neighbors would say: Surprise! Surprise!

Mind you, fishing season starts here soon.

RH, as SrTelemaster150 states, never change just the cam. The bottom of the lifters will be toast, as well.
Even when re-using serviceable cam & tappets, if the tappets are removed & not reinstalled on the same lobe, (mixed up) I bead blast both the lifter faces & cam lobes to aid in re-seating the tappets.

It may not be 100% necessary, but I see it as added insurance for trouble free break in of the now (possibly) unmated surfaces.
Old 03-25-2015, 03:58 PM
  #28973  
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From Horizon the cam gear is 28 bucks and the tappets are 10 each. Considering what a good engine it has been over the years it's a no brainer to me too. I've purchased several other Saito parts from Horizon recently and they have been easy to deal with. They were straight with me regarding back ordered parts. I'm not aware of any other sources. Is this where you guys who are regularly rebuilding engines getting parts?

Rick...
Old 03-25-2015, 03:59 PM
  #28974  
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No, that's not normal wear. I'd replace both cam & lifters. Maybe the o-rings for the push rod tubes too. I'd also be wondering if the cam was getting plenty of oil when running. Were you hanging the model on the prop a lot?

CR
Old 03-25-2015, 04:00 PM
  #28975  
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Over revving will also cause that, (probably quicker than too much lash), using the Saitos provided gauge of .0039" will not. Every time I read about someone using a 4" pitch prop I cringe and think about that happening.

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