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Old 03-25-2015, 04:09 PM
  #28976  
RH
 
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[QUOTE=SrTelemaster150;12010280 Set he valve lash (cold) at .0015". (.04mm) [/QUOTE]

I've been splitting the difference on the Saito suggested .002 to .004. Maybe even a bit closer to the .004. I'm also setting up another 82 and have been having trouble getting the LS needle set right. Maybe this is the problem. I'll have to reset them to .0015 as you recommended.

Rick...
Old 03-25-2015, 04:20 PM
  #28977  
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Are you setting the LS needle with the HS needle at full peak, if not you'll be chasing the LS needle setting forever. The valve lash has zero effect on the needle setting unless way wrong.
Old 03-25-2015, 04:27 PM
  #28978  
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Originally Posted by Charley
No, that's not normal wear. I'd replace both cam & lifters. Maybe the o-rings for the push rod tubes too. I'd also be wondering if the cam was getting plenty of oil when running. Were you hanging the model on the prop a lot?

CR
I'm not inclined to refurbish worn parts. I've reached the point in life where it has become my primary goal to 'spend' my kin's inheritance. So new parts are justified.

As for my flying style, I'm not very aggressive so I don't tend to stress the plane or the engine. One of the reasons I like to fly the UltraStick so much is the 'crow' set up. It's great fun!

Rick...
Old 03-25-2015, 05:11 PM
  #28979  
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RH, is the engine cowled? Check for adequate cooling. If running pure synthetic lube you may find that will degrade and if not bushed, the bottom rod end can seize.

hsukaria, sent you a PM regarding Toledo.
Old 03-25-2015, 05:36 PM
  #28980  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Are you setting the LS needle with the HS needle at full peak, if not you'll be chasing the LS needle setting forever. The valve lash has zero effect on the needle setting unless way wrong.
Yes. I start with the HS at peak and then work with the LS needle with very small increments. Then repeat...

I've had success with that technique on other Saitos, but this one just doesn't seem to want to cooperate. My last build this winter has been a SIG 4 star 54 that I have a new FA 56 to go on it. I broke the 56 in on a test stand and the tune up went great. It runs. idles, and transitions as good as I could ever expect. I like to start it up just to listen to it tick.

Any other suggestions on my current situation would certainly be welcome.

Rick...
Old 03-25-2015, 05:48 PM
  #28981  
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Originally Posted by Cougar429
RH, is the engine cowled? .
Nope. It's mounted to the exposed firewall of an UltraStick 40. I've been running CoolPower 15% since I joined the club here in the western Carolina mountains as a new guy in the hobby. It has been the glow fuel of choice in this club for many years. The old timers say they've tried a lot of combinations and found this one to work the best.

I'm certainly open to any suggestions you 'old timers' might have.

Rick...
Old 03-25-2015, 06:03 PM
  #28982  
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Originally Posted by Charley
I thought about shooting an Armadillo that's digging holes in the side yard. Does that count?

CR
Ah, you could have made a hat out of it.
Old 03-26-2015, 04:52 AM
  #28983  
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Saito guy's, several years ago I bought a McDaniel/Sonic Tronics glow plug adaper set for twins. It worked perfectly except it could not be used with Enya A3's. Tim passed along to me a couple of A3's for my Saito 1.00 twin. The latest model, (received yesterday) fits the A3's perfectly as well as OS-f, Fox Miracle, GlowDevil etc. They shortened the catches on the adapter where they engage the hex on the glow plug. On inspection the hex on the A3's is closer to the bottom of the plugs than other brands.
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Old 03-26-2015, 05:01 AM
  #28984  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
Ah, you could have made a hat out of it.
What..for when you go fishing?
Old 03-26-2015, 05:45 AM
  #28985  
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Originally Posted by RH
Nope. It's mounted to the exposed firewall of an UltraStick 40. I've been running CoolPower 15% since I joined the club here in the western Carolina mountains as a new guy in the hobby. It has been the glow fuel of choice in this club for many years. The old timers say they've tried a lot of combinations and found this one to work the best.

I'm certainly open to any suggestions you 'old timers' might have.

Rick...
When all we had in El Paso was Morgan fuels I used to run their Omega for the castor oil content.

CR
Old 03-26-2015, 05:47 AM
  #28986  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
Ah, you could have made a hat out of it.
One of these?



BJ
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:15 AM
  #28987  
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Originally Posted by BJ64
One of these?

BJ
Yes, that's the one.

Thanks for finding the pic.

Richard

Old 03-26-2015, 07:25 AM
  #28988  
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Would like to know the significant if any differences between the
Saito FA91 and Saito FA91S models.
Thought I would ask the Saito experts.
Gary
Old 03-26-2015, 02:34 PM
  #28989  
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Re those worn bits. As you all know I push the limits with my competition engines and I have never seen that sort of damage on a Saito. EXCEPT for the other day with a "sports" only engine. It was running on 15 to 18% oil as near as I can figure, synthetic, and run lean enough to starve (all in the interests of performance). The guy was a "fiddler" and adjust the mixture prior to ever flight, you know the type. So dare I suggest operator "error". My rule of thumb for most sports flyers is smoke is good cause you have a degree of tracking for the model and burnt oil means it is getting through the engine. This above statement summises that all other parameters for the engine are correct.
Old 03-26-2015, 04:52 PM
  #28990  
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Re those worn bits. As you all know I push the limits with my competition engines and I have never seen that sort of damage on a Saito. EXCEPT for the other day with a "sports" only engine. It was running on 15 to 18% oil as near as I can figure, synthetic, and run lean enough to starve (all in the interests of performance). The guy was a "fiddler" and adjust the mixture prior to ever flight, you know the type. So dare I suggest operator "error". My rule of thumb for most sports flyers is smoke is good cause you have a degree of tracking for the model and burnt oil means it is getting through the engine. This above statement summises that all other parameters for the engine are correct.
I'm not going to indict anyone else's tuning methods but with 2-strokes we always looked for a good "smoke trail" at WOT horizontal. Tougher with a 4 stroke but always backed down from peak at least 200 RPM at full throttle & no sag when held vertical.

I knew some guys who would back a 4-stroke down from peak by sound (too much). I had a tough time getting them to understand that it was too much RPM to give up. They were too used to the 2-stroke sound & didn't get that the 4-stroke only hit every other time.

Had to show them on a tach & then I don't think they ever believed it.

CR

Last edited by Charley; 03-27-2015 at 05:48 AM.
Old 03-26-2015, 05:03 PM
  #28991  
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Maybe switch fuels to Wildcat 2&4. Has more oil in it. From what little info I found on Coolpower, it has less oil in it than Wildcat, and costs more.
Old 03-26-2015, 05:20 PM
  #28992  
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
The guy was a "fiddler" and adjust the mixture prior to ever flight, you know the type. So dare I suggest operator "error". My rule of thumb for most sports flyers is smoke is good cause you have a degree of tracking for the model and burnt oil means it is getting through the engine.
I tend not to be a 'fiddler' and prefer to stay on the rich side with a fair amount of smoke. As for operator error, I know that drill well. I had been doing pretty good until the end of the flying season last fall when I crunched three planes in two trips to the field. Gave me something to do this winter.

Rick...
Old 03-26-2015, 05:32 PM
  #28993  
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Originally Posted by Charley
Maybe the o-rings for the push rod tubes too.
Charley...

I got to wondering about the 'o-rings' you mentioned. Are you referring to the rubber seals on each end of the push rod tube? I broke out the engine diagram but couldn't find any o-rings mentioned specifically.

[edit] I just looked on the replacement parts list on Horizon and they show 'Rubber Bushings", upper and lower. I'll bet that's what you're referring to. I'll include those in my order in the morning. Certainly can't hurt.

Rick...

Last edited by RH; 03-26-2015 at 05:40 PM.
Old 03-26-2015, 06:10 PM
  #28994  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Maybe switch fuels to Wildcat 2&4. Has more oil in it. From what little info I found on Coolpower, it has less oil in it than Wildcat, and costs more.
I've run Cool Power for years W/CDI in an FA-150. Much leaner needle settings than with GI. I have never had a cam look like that & I am running the original cam from the FA-150 in my high compression FA-180HC. That cam has seen over 60 gallons of Cool Power & most of the time it was at WOT. But then again I prop my engines to run at peak torque RPM, (static) not peak HP. And I set my valve lash near the SAITO recommended minimum.

That engine was run with either excessive valve lash for a long time or it was over revved repeatedly. Either case would have the tappets slamming into the lobe ramps resulting in the abnormal wear patterns exhibited.
Old 03-27-2015, 03:14 AM
  #28995  
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have never experienced this but if the cause was too little lube, the lobes would be worn off of the cams and the rod bearings would be loose. The main bearings would survive on almost no oil. I now use the above mentioned WildCat 2/4 with 18% synthetic. I, and as in Dan's case have used the same brand for a long time, 1992 I think. European guys are running Saitos on 12% full synthetic with no issues at all. I too have always propped my engines for the mid nines for smaller Saitos and mid to high eights for the larger ones. They thrive on it.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 03-27-2015 at 03:19 AM.
Old 03-27-2015, 03:37 AM
  #28996  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
have never experienced this but if the cause was too little lube, the lobes would be worn off of the cams and the rod bearings would be loose.
Good point on the lobe wear. Insufficient lube would have resulted in wear at the point of peak resistance which would have been on the tips of the lobes when valve spring pressure would be maximum.

It might have been a "perfect storm" of excessive valve lash as well as over revving.
Old 03-27-2015, 04:44 AM
  #28997  
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...and it could equally be down to just a sh-!ty case-hardening of the cam lobe.

Hey - it happens. A Friday arvo job...

BJ
Old 03-27-2015, 04:52 AM
  #28998  
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Originally Posted by BJ64
...and it could equally be down to just a sh-!ty case-hardening of the cam lobe.

Hey - it happens. A Friday arvo job...

BJ
No, because then the wear would be on the tip of the lobe too.

The wear pattern indicates that the tappet had excessive clearance when it contacted the lobe too far up the ramp. That would be caused by either excessive valve lash, "float" due to over revving, or a combination of the 2.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 03-27-2015 at 05:43 AM.
Old 03-27-2015, 05:09 AM
  #28999  
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Originally Posted by Charley
I'm not going to indict anyone else's tuning methods but with 2-strokes we always looked for a good "smoke trail" at WOT horizontal. Tougher with a 4 stroke but always backed down from peak at least 200 RPM at full throttle & no sag when held vertical.

I knew some guys who would back a 4-stroke down from peak by sound (too much). I had a tough time getting them to understand that it was too much RPM to give up. They were too used to the 2-stroke sound & didn't get that the 4-stroke only hit every other time.

Had to show them on a tach & then I don't think they never believed it.

CR
Amen charlie good comments.Have you shot the nextdoor neighbours armadillo yet?
Old 03-27-2015, 05:53 AM
  #29000  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Amen charlie good comments.Have you shot the nextdoor neighbours armadillo yet?
Not my neighbor's 'Diller. That's a free-range critter which is terrorizing all our yards! What we need is a 'Diller dog.

CR

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