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Old 06-22-2015, 04:56 AM
  #29576  
SrTelemaster150
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Default My FA-180 Finally Finds a Home

I am using the version W/the FG-57 piston. (11:1 CR) It puts out just over 3HP burning 15% Cool Power lit off W/CDI.


At 110" WS (1522 sq in of wing area) & an expected AUW of under 14# it should be an impressive performer.


Here is the BUILD THREAD

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 06-22-2015 at 05:04 AM.
Old 06-22-2015, 06:01 AM
  #29577  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Hi sammy.

Sorry jkr barrys comment made me look at your pic closely,is it true you won't need an allen key to get the cylinder off?

Same to you guys,trev which country are they livin in?? we ain't got no fathers day here

Dave really nice photo's.A quick joke for you,your son looks huge,the last time i saw something that big the next door neighbours rotweiller had me baled up
Hi there OldFart. Nice to hear from you. Fathers Day here is just like any other Sunday here, just we get to sleep in later and sometimes get took out to eat. Oh, And don't have to mow the yard! LOL.......... Whats the weather like there? It's hot and hummed here, getting a lot of rain. Can't believe it's almost the end of June! Normally where into the 100's by now and dead grass. Just mean thats our flying will go into (Maybe November) My birthday is coming up in July so l got a fathers day- Birthday with a $2000.00 ridding mower for a $500.00 yard. (Maybe it's a hint?) LOL......... Keep the word coming in. I enjoy reading all that Club Saito has to offer. l learning a lot about four-cycles being a two-stork and gas man for years. l have two Briggs and Stratton (Hope l spilled that wright) engine's that are weed eater motors. One l converted already and tach'd @ 5700 RPMs with a 20X10 pro and 7700 with a 16X10 and 8000 without a prop. Funny looking motors? Looks just like a regular lawn mower engine, just smaller. Going to build a (BIG) trainer for it. There four-cycles and don't have to have a mix gas, has a filler hole for the oil. Will post when l get finished with project. Hope ya having good flying weather.
Old 06-22-2015, 08:46 AM
  #29578  
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Thanks Pete, he's a big one at 6' 5" and 265 lbs. He owns two Yamaha FZ 1000's and two R-1's, he looks like a grasshopper all folded up on them. He's been known to ride 8,500 miles on one trip and 6,200 on another. Everybody still calls him Little Dave.

Fiery may fix me up with a couple of Taipan 10x6 props. I should receive a 10x6 Xoar today.
Old 06-22-2015, 09:34 AM
  #29579  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
I am using the version W/the FG-57 piston. (11:1 CR) It puts out just over 3HP burning 15% Cool Power lit off W/CDI.

...
Other than the CDI, what other mods, in addition to the FG-57 piston, did you use in this engine? Was the 11:1 CR just from switching out the piston? Is the CDI necessary to run this 180 at this CR? What timing did you use with the CDI? Thank you very much.
Sincerely, Richard
AMA 861960
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
Old 06-22-2015, 12:06 PM
  #29580  
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[QUOTE=slamn sammy;12058183
Mike, hows that Cub and 182 coming? Have not hard from you.
Happy Fathers Day[/QUOTE]

Well since you asked I got the remodeling work done on the house but now we spend a lot of time babysitting No. 3 grandson and having a steady stream of family coming for a visit.

I had to do some minor surgery on the Cub's wing this weekend. I had the infamous disappearing T-nut rattle and it sucks to be you because you get to it from the top syndrome. I ended up building a captured t-nut insert out of two pieces of drilled pieces dowel rod. I epoxied it all together and after letting it set a day or two I drilled a hole in the offending t-nut's position and epoxied the whole mess in. I covered it with a round piece of covering to make it look like a scale patch after an inspection. Looks great! But now I get to repeat the process because I managed to use a 2-56 t-nut instead of a 4-40! (insert banging head against brickwall emote here) The 182 is stalled I need to get the Cub ready for a demo flight for the CAP cadets. My son is training officer and he wants to teach them about past and current CAP aircraft and then surprise them with a flight of my Cub with CAP insignia. Did I mention it sucks to be me?!
Old 06-22-2015, 12:24 PM
  #29581  
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Richard, 11.1 to 1 will run quite well on a glow plug, my stock 1.50S has 11.24 to 1 compression and my old .80 has 15.5 to 1. They are a little fussy about being lean or rich. Both are tame as a lamb with the CDI. I have the 1.50's timing set at 35 btdc and the .80 at 32. The .80 was a little rattly at 35 btdc. They run eerily smooth set up that way. I haven't done a power comparison. Dan has. This is a lousy screen shot of Clarence Lee's figures for the early 1.50S
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:53 PM
  #29582  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Richard, 11.1 to 1 will run quite well on a glow plug, my stock 1.50S has 11.24 to 1 compression and my old .80 has 15.5 to 1. They are a little fussy about being lean or rich. Both are tame as a lamb with the CDI. I have the 1.50's timing set at 35 btdc and the .80 at 32. The .80 was a little rattly at 35 btdc. They run eerily smooth set up that way. I haven't done a power comparison. Dan has. This is a lousy screen shot of Clarence Lee's figures for the early 1.50S
Hi Dave,

Thank you very much. Hope to be down your way this summer soon.

Very best regards to you and yours.

Sincerely, Richard
Old 06-22-2015, 02:13 PM
  #29583  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
Other than the CDI, what other mods, in addition to the FG-57 piston, did you use in this engine? Was the 11:1 CR just from switching out the piston? Is the CDI necessary to run this 180 at this CR? What timing did you use with the CDI? Thank you very much.
Sincerely, Richard
AMA 861960
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
The FG-57 & FG-84 pistons are 180 bore, use the FA-180 ring & have a piston crown that is .20" taller than the stock FA-180 piston to compensate for the 1.1mm shorter 150 based stroke in the gas multis. The FA-180 & FG-57 piston are the same below the wrist pin. The FG-84 piston has the same compression height as the FG-57 but it has a different skirt cut-out to clear the large crank web in the radial.

Using either of the "gas" version pistons in the FA-180 will boost CR from 9.6 to 11:1. Reduce the deck height of the case another .015" W/the same pistons and CR will jump to 12.7:1. Doing that will require a valve clearance check.

On a 180 of any sort, CDI will pay big dividends in fuel economy & will also give a significant power boost, especially at the higher compression ratios. 12.7:1 WILL NOT be user friendly on GI. 11:1 may or may not be ill mannered. I never tried to run it on GI.

I set the initial timing on all my big block Saitos @ 34-36 degrees BTDC.
Old 06-22-2015, 02:21 PM
  #29584  
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HERE IS A THREAD that covers the power output of the various versions of the FA-180
Old 06-22-2015, 03:30 PM
  #29585  
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I have a question for the crowd. I replaced a Moki 1.8 with a Saito 2.20 in a Yellow P-47. It was a great improvement. But I had a custom spinner nut that was tapped for the Moki shaft(10x1) and I am wondering if I helicoil the spinner nut down to 8x1.25 would it hold up with the Saito? I would hate to have it come off in flight.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Dave
Old 06-23-2015, 04:01 AM
  #29586  
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Good engine choice mate,sound awesome.They run silky smooth on a big prop.
Old 06-24-2015, 10:12 AM
  #29587  
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Haven't seen or used a blind nut in a wing before. Generally, I don't trust them much unless I did the gluing.
Old 06-24-2015, 10:33 AM
  #29588  
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SIG has it in their assembly instructions that way using T-nuts to attach the main and jury struts. On a SIG Cub the struts are functional.and remain attached to the wing when the wings are removed.
Old 06-24-2015, 07:21 PM
  #29589  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Well since you asked I got the remodeling work done on the house but now we spend a lot of time babysitting No. 3 grandson and having a steady stream of family coming for a visit.

I had to do some minor surgery on the Cub's wing this weekend. I had the infamous disappearing T-nut rattle and it sucks to be you because you get to it from the top syndrome. I ended up building a captured t-nut insert out of two pieces of drilled pieces dowel rod. I epoxied it all together and after letting it set a day or two I drilled a hole in the offending t-nut's position and epoxied the whole mess in. I covered it with a round piece of covering to make it look like a scale patch after an inspection. Looks great! But now I get to repeat the process because I managed to use a 2-56 t-nut instead of a 4-40! (insert banging head against brickwall emote here) The 182 is stalled I need to get the Cub ready for a demo flight for the CAP cadets. My son is training officer and he wants to teach them about past and current CAP aircraft and then surprise them with a flight of my Cub with CAP insignia. Did I mention it sucks to be me?!

I understand, have been there, dun that many times. Most of the time when l'm tired and late at night and need to go to bed! ....l always say "l;m going to do this and then l'm going to bed" then l set back and Before you know it, l have dun this six times and the sun has come up and after l come back and look at it,MAN! lt's really messed up worse then before.Good luck and tell me more about the Cap.
Old 06-25-2015, 08:56 AM
  #29590  
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Sam,

OK the Civil Air Patrol is the auxiliary unit of the USAF. CAP maintains a small fleet of civil aircraft, mostly Cessna 172s and 182s, used for search and rescue. The aircraft flight crews are made up of adults and cadets. Out of four sons, four became Eagle scouts and two became cadet officers in their Civil Air Patrol units. Eric is No.3 is a Disabled American Veteran but still able to work some. He is a life member in the VFW and also volunteers as a Senior (adult) CAP member. He is the education officer for his CAP Squadron and teaches aviation to the cadets (male and female). The cadets gain rank by studying and passing tests after completing a minimum time in their rank. Also the cadets are aided in preparing for the tests necessary to serve on search and rescue flight crews but this is optional. Cadets also will work air shows and other civic functions as part of their service. Some cadets go on to serve in the military as did Eric. You will find former CAP cadets in all branches service and based on how far they went thru the program will get a promotion on enlistment. CAP is organized in Squadrons, Groups, and Wings like most military aviation units around the world. I should mention the Group units have been dissolved in the past and reinstated several times.

Mike
Old 06-25-2015, 05:25 PM
  #29591  
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Pete, what props do you run on your Saito .30. Today I ran a Xoar 10x5 and it still went to 10,650 rpm. It seems as though the Bolly 10x5.5 is the prop of choice.
Old 06-26-2015, 03:59 AM
  #29592  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Sam,

OK the Civil Air Patrol is the auxiliary unit of the USAF. CAP maintains a small fleet of civil aircraft, mostly Cessna 172s and 182s, used for search and rescue. The aircraft flight crews are made up of adults and cadets. Out of four sons, four became Eagle scouts and two became cadet officers in their Civil Air Patrol units. Eric is No.3 is a Disabled American Veteran but still able to work some. He is a life member in the VFW and also volunteers as a Senior (adult) CAP member. He is the education officer for his CAP Squadron and teaches aviation to the cadets (male and female). The cadets gain rank by studying and passing tests after completing a minimum time in their rank. Also the cadets are aided in preparing for the tests necessary to serve on search and rescue flight crews but this is optional. Cadets also will work air shows and other civic functions as part of their service. Some cadets go on to serve in the military as did Eric. You will find former CAP cadets in all branches service and based on how far they went thru the program will get a promotion on enlistment. CAP is organized in Squadrons, Groups, and Wings like most military aviation units around the world. I should mention the Group units have been dissolved in the past and reinstated several times.

Mike
Thanks for the come back there Mike. l need to ask my wife if she knows about that? She was a F-4 and a B-52 engine Tech in the air force back in the day. She is like me (A PLANE NUT) She knows planes as good as l do (ALMOUST) LOL.. Shes as bad as buying planes as l am! Her father worked on Bt-13's and P-51's in his day. I bought her a BT-13 and (l got to fly it ones) Now it's a Hanger queen. Have not got the Mustang Yet, holding out for a Top Flight Gaint Scale P-51. Now she has a 78" BT-13 with a Saito .91, An 81" Ok Models RCAF Chipmunk with a DLE20RA on it, 2 Sr, Kadet, One was kit bashed into a Super Kadet' we call it (Cindy's Money) it's aerobatic! A 80" Cmp 50cc Jap Zero DL50. And some yard flyer's. She will not let me fly her stuff unless she is there! (SMART WOMAN) She went all over there world. If there was a F4 or a 52 there, she was there. she loves history. She finised up in the Air Nat, Gard. Hope alls going good. Holler sometime when you can. Theres a show coming up in Ft, Smith (In Baring) on 9/7/2015. It's on a Saturday. l'll be in and out 9/5-9/8. (mother inlaw lives there) Maybe we can hook up there. Stay Cool, Don't lose my ph#.
Old 06-26-2015, 09:42 AM
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I hear the CAP units using digital radio modes when listening to the high frequency bands. It is very common to hear them using Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) radios as they call each other. They seem very active. Callsigns are something like 002DECAP, so you know that's 002 in Delaware calling. Your sons would know about ALE if you mention it to them. As for Eric, please let him know that another vet who was not injured passes along his respect for his service and sacrifice.
Old 06-26-2015, 09:56 AM
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Jim, I bet you never expected to see these two become friends. I had to move all four blind nuts and the throttle wire, fuel tank choice and mounting is next on the agenda. The Xoar 14x6 may be too light for a good idle, may be fine on a twin, I'll test it in a day or two.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:37 AM
  #29595  
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Originally Posted by blw
I hear the CAP units using digital radio modes when listening to the high frequency bands. It is very common to hear them using Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) radios as they call each other. They seem very active. Callsigns are something like 002DECAP, so you know that's 002 in Delaware calling. Your sons would know about ALE if you mention it to them. As for Eric, please let him know that another vet who was not injured passes along his respect for his service and sacrifice.
Thanks I'll let him know! We are very proud of what he has done and his sense of duty to the community. His next goal is to get back into honor rides for the fallen vets. He did that while stationed and FT. Carson and that led to him joining the VFW.
Old 06-27-2015, 11:37 AM
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Hobbsy - is that a 100 twin? I recently purchased one to use in a cub. Have not run it yet because it sat for a number of years and the rubber pushrod seals are cracked. New ones are on the way. One thing I notice in your picture is the brass tubes protruding from the carbs. Mine does not have those. Did you add them? If so why?
Old 06-27-2015, 06:37 PM
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Dave the light wooden props are fine on all the saito twins and triples re smooth idle.
The last prop i ran on the 30 was a mas series 2 q tip.Fired up the 200r3 last night just to hear it idle,the boys reckon it makes a good background noise at the bar.Nice keleo exhaust ring on it.

Off for a ride on the big ducati now but for how long i don't know,it's brass monkeys over here.
Old 06-28-2015, 03:14 AM
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Dave i can only imagine that the idle with a light prop on your 100 twin should be good.A flying mate runs a 90 twin no worries and my 182 will idle all day at 1200 not that you need it that low with good transition after a few minutes,the 200r3 is even better,think i'm running an 18x8 on that.

Well boys the ride up in the hills was awesome but freezing today,my knees were so numb at the first coffee stop somebody else had to tell me they were knockin..fingers so numb i could'nt get my helmet undone and off the head for a couple of minutes while you wrap your gloved fingers around a hot exhaust pipe for some relief.No kangaroos on the road but plenty of gum nuts(we call them honky nuts) scattered in the damp shade under tree lined corners.They are a brown husky small cone shape(no pun intended)and cranked over on the duke everytime the front wheel hits one they slide you sideways about an inch and you can end up in trouble if you hit more than your fair share,which is directly related to how much beer you drank at the last country pub we stopped at.

ps the patches of honky nuts all over the road(why are they only on the corners?)are dropped by parrots mostly,they go crazy in trees with nuts or cones and scatter stuff everywhere,arn't we lucky?
Old 06-28-2015, 04:07 AM
  #29599  
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Well, need to ask for some info, quick advice or other solutions to this one.

That second 125a I found at the swap meet will not run with any reliability unless smoking rich, to the point fuel consumption is twice that of the first mounted in Rare Bear, (averaging 12oz in 9 minutes of mid throttle). Could not find the usual suspects such as a leaky intake setup, so suspect there must be damage to the spray bar, barrel and/or needle. I have seen where there are carb upgrade kits for the 50-80, etc. but wonder if anyone has info for the 125 AG series.

Caffeine Low light may be on as I am beating my head against the wall even locating sources for the carb internals. Can find the entire assembly:

https://www.greathobbies.com/product..._id=SAI125A821

For some reason cannot link the results page for the carbs and bits.


Anyone having spare extra bits would be a bonus.

Last edited by Cougar429; 06-28-2015 at 04:19 AM.
Old 06-28-2015, 04:24 AM
  #29600  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
...

ps the patches of honky nuts all over the road(why are they only on the corners?)are dropped by parrots mostly,they go crazy in trees with nuts or cones and scatter stuff everywhere,arn't we lucky?
Do the parrots taste like chicken, or are they protected as endangered species?

Sincerely, Richard

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