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Old 12-15-2015, 07:28 AM
  #30551  
Hobbsy
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Thanks Fly, I'm actually her Great Grandpa, and even at 73 you have no defense against the little finger wrap job. Her mother is incarcerated and we didn't want Brooklyn to end up in a child protection agency, she's in much better hands this way. She's our 9th Great Grandchild. Whew. Our 10th one is here too and lives upstairs with her mother and dad, she's 10 days old. Is it a Walton thing?
Old 12-15-2015, 07:34 AM
  #30552  
FlyerInOKC
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
Thanks Fly, I'm actually her Great Grandpa, and even at 73 you have no defense against the little finger wrap job. Her mother is incarcerated and we didn't want Brooklyn to end up in a child protection agency, she's in much better hands this way. She's our 9th Great Grandchild. Whew. Our 10th one is here too and lives upstairs with her mother and dad, she's 10 days old. Is it a Walton thing?
I would do the same, I hope her mom can get her life together for both their sakes!
Old 12-15-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
As a starter here's an attempt at humour.Take it as a given that you were bought up on castor (for medicinal purposes) and that when you fart you leave a coloured skid mark in your jocks that looks very similar in colour to a well baked castor covered muffler.Are the synthetic clean burning oil brigade saying they don't suffer this problem??
All the engines that ran Wildcat are clean, the ones that ran SIG with Castor have the brown gunk on them. No skid marks from Synthetic oils.
Old 12-15-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
Dan, did you or do buy those Stoeger Shooters Bibles, Us four boys would buy our Dad a new one every year. I remember the 30-40 Krag. I remember the 220 Swift was the fastest gun in there at the time a 4,110 fps. I'm sure tht's slow by todays standards.
Actually, the 220 Swift still sits at or near the top of the heap for .224 caliber. In fact, the Swift has such a reputation as a barrel burner, that few have tried to equal let alone surpass its performance.

There are .204 & .177 caliber offerings that top 4,000 fps, but not by much. The .204 Rugar tops 4000 with 33 gr bullets, but can't do it with 40gr pills.

.17 caliber rounds haven't held much popularity due to lack of practicality.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 12-15-2015 at 04:01 PM.
Old 12-16-2015, 04:18 AM
  #30555  
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Yes dave it is a walton thing,time to point the green blob towards the sunrise and get some miles and smiles under the wheels,there's nothing like it.

Sr it's still a nice old rifle whether you think custom or not.The 220 as you say was outdone by the 17rem velocity wise and there were many other tryers for the crown.As you know they were only good through a chronograph speed wise,not very practical out in the field.I had a custom built 22/250 improved which equalled a hot 5.56x57mm down range,a favourite long range crow buster if it was'nt to windy,no peep sights tho The heavier longer bullets in 6mm (243) were better when the weather was not.The 17 was known for severe throat erosion and therefore bad accuracy after 500 rounds or so out of a top quality stainless barrel.I had a springfield p9 semi auto handgun chambered for the 357 super mag which did the same thing.

Dave...since i mentioned springfield does that put me in bart simpson territory??
Old 12-16-2015, 08:44 AM
  #30556  
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I can't really be in the crowd with my lowly 22 Hornet. I like it enough and mine seems to shoot a decent enough group despite what some people say about the round using factory ammunition. It's not great but it's fun to shoot. Prices have skyrocketed for bullets. It may be time to take off the scope and sell it for something like a 243. Really, nowadays for the non-loader who likes to shoot, ammo price plays a large part in choosing the rifle you buy. Plus, if I'm going to shoot it my wife is going to want to shoot it too, so the price goes up.

uh, okay, time to call this meeting to order. We need some serious self policing among ourselves, or the moderating will have to get stricter. I really don't want to see that happen, but this thread isn't going down the tubes. A couple of posts have been deleted and I know one was due to a complaint. That one was sick, pure and simple. And, I feel that I've let that member down because he had to read it and get grossed out before I could delete it. I've been under the weather with some health issues, and sometimes don't catch things two or three times a day like I used to. But, I'll be back to my regular schedule since it's obviously needed. Look guys, if we don't keep ourselves in line it's either moderation with deletions, edited posts, etc, and/or the higher ranks stepping in to do the job. Those guys are always busy and have little time for the local humor or bullcrap. The poster of that sicko post would have probably been put on moderated status with the threat of being banned if it continued. Guaranteed.

Okay, back to the morning coffee. Dave, sorry to hear about your daughter. I may have spoken to her once when I called you some years back. I think she had hurt her back maybe?
Old 12-16-2015, 08:57 AM
  #30557  
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Pete, I grew up with a house full of guns, I wish I had some of them back, like a LeFevre 12 gauge with Damascus barrels, a model 55 Winchester with a 24" barrel. My Dad had a matched pair of Remington model 721's, one was 300 Savage caliber and the other a 30-06. The 30-06 had an Unertl flop over scope. I probably misspelled Unertl. My own rifle was a model 94 Winchester 30-30.
Old 12-16-2015, 11:21 AM
  #30558  
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Saw a guy at work that had one of those LeFevre 12ga that came unraveled. Looked like a spring. He loaded his own shells and I figure he used to much of the wrong powder?

I worked in a seamless tube steel mill and the grain structure in a seamless tube is initially like a Damascus barrel. I've seen the tubes come apart on the DOM draw bench like what the shotguns will do. After the draw bench and annealing the grain is normally more linear.
Old 12-16-2015, 01:39 PM
  #30559  
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I too wish I still had some of my dads guns. A nice short barrel 44 Special, a M1 Garand in beautiful condition, a bolt action 30-06 with scope, mahogany stock with padded butt, and two WWII ammo boxes filled with 30-06 M1 clips. Never ever should have sold that Garand, but it was my mom who sold them, I was only 19 at the time. There was also a nice 22 rifle, though I don't remember if it was semi auto or bolt action, thinking it was semi auto with a clip. The only thing we kept was a 22 Rugar handgun.

Finding 22 rounds has become difficult around here, why is that? They used to be stacked on the shelve in 100 round packs. Could shoot all day long for just a few $$.
Old 12-16-2015, 06:04 PM
  #30560  
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Originally Posted by w8ye
Saw a guy at work that had one of those LeFevre 12ga that came unraveled. Looked like a spring. He loaded his own shells and I figure he used to much of the wrong powder?

I worked in a seamless tube steel mill and the grain structure in a seamless tube is initially like a Damascus barrel. I've seen the tubes come apart on the DOM draw bench like what the shotguns will do. After the draw bench and annealing the grain is normally more linear.
No amount of smokeless powder is safe in a Damascus barrel. The twisted welded wire will not take the pressure of even light smokeless powder loads.

Black powder is the only thing safe for Damascus barrels and then only if they are in good condition.
.
Old 12-16-2015, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
I too wish I still had some of my dads guns. A nice short barrel 44 Special, a M1 Garand in beautiful condition, a bolt action 30-06 with scope, mahogany stock with padded butt, and two WWII ammo boxes filled with 30-06 M1 clips. Never ever should have sold that Garand, but it was my mom who sold them, I was only 19 at the time. There was also a nice 22 rifle, though I don't remember if it was semi auto or bolt action, thinking it was semi auto with a clip. The only thing we kept was a 22 Rugar handgun.

Finding 22 rounds has become difficult around here, why is that? They used to be stacked on the shelve in 100 round packs. Could shoot all day long for just a few $$.
Finding many reloading components as well as 22 rf ammo is becoming difficult because the lunatic fringe of the 2nd Amendment crowd is hording.
Old 12-16-2015, 06:53 PM
  #30562  
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Hello all im installing a Saito 100 on a Great Planes 90" wingspan Cub and i need a longer engine mount than what i have. Is there any reason this mount http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ATG7&P=ML#tech wont work?
Old 12-17-2015, 03:23 AM
  #30563  
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YES! you could fit it incorrectly

Barry only fools laugh at hornets (the flying kind) do you remember winchester bought out the 22 magnum rimfire back in the seventies to supposedly make the hornet obsolete because they new that not many shooters reloaded for them? but if you did the smart money was on the hornet shooter out to 150yrds.

ps demascus barrels should never be referred to as just common copper twisted wire sr my man and back in the fifties ELEY made 12ga shotgun cartridges with a reduced load of 7/8 oz at around 900fps instead of the normal 1oz to 1 and quarter load at 1100 to 1200fps.Looking at a well cared for demascus barrel beats any pizza topping.
Old 12-17-2015, 04:16 AM
  #30564  
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P3, please give us a we bit of an expanded explanation, if the mount is too long just cut it down on your band saw. Wrong picture, more later.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-19-2015 at 04:37 AM.
Old 12-17-2015, 05:17 AM
  #30565  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
YES! you could fit it incorrectly

Barry only fools laugh at hornets (the flying kind) do you remember winchester bought out the 22 magnum rimfire back in the seventies to supposedly make the hornet obsolete because they new that not many shooters reloaded for them? but if you did the smart money was on the hornet shooter out to 150yrds.

ps demascus barrels should never be referred to as just common copper twisted wire sr my man and back in the fifties ELEY made 12ga shotgun cartridges with a reduced load of 7/8 oz at around 900fps instead of the normal 1oz to 1 and quarter load at 1100 to 1200fps.Looking at a well cared for demascus barrel beats any pizza topping.
There was at one time what was referred to as "bulk smokeless powder" that was safe for use in Damascus barrels..

Damascus barrel are welded twisted iron/steel wire forged welded around a mandrel.

That being said, why would one settle for 900 fps with 7/8 oz of shot when 1 1/2 oz loads at 1160 fps can be loaded at lower pressure with black powder. Cleaning a break action double barrel with the breech submerged in a bucket of hot soapy water only takes a few minutes & will eliminate the corrosive effects of black powder. (payload & Mv taken from Lyman Black Powder Handbook copyright 1975, 3 3/4 drams 1 1/2oz)

Even modern loads are spec'ed at "drams equivalent" which denote the Mv associated with black powder loads. Advancements in modern shotshell performance are associated with wad technology improvements rather than propellants.

As far as the accuracy of the 22 Hoirnet? Poor accuracy often associated with the Hornet is due to variable headspacing of the rim in the chamber.Rim thickness can vary up to .005" depending on the manufacturer.



This affects accuracy. As long as one is using cases with the full .065" rim dimension & doesn't swap around between manufacturers that may not use the same spec', accuracy can be acceptable.


Many have the chamber reamed to "K Hornet" which has a sharp 40* shoulder.



Standard 22 Hornet rounds are fired in the chamber to fire-form the cases. By minimal re-sizeing during the reloading process, precise headspacing on the shoulder rather than the rim can significantly improve accuracy.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 12-17-2015 at 07:42 AM.
Old 12-17-2015, 06:56 AM
  #30566  
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I have a 1910 L.C. Smith 12 GA. and you used to see a lot of them with Damascus barrels. I had a friend who had one rupture the barrel and leave him with a ruddy complexion. I would touch the things. Fortunately mine has the fluid steel barrel and I use to bird hunt a lot with it but quit when they started using steel shot. Its a family heirloom the only from my paternal grandfather and not worth risking.
Old 12-17-2015, 11:43 AM
  #30567  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
YES! you could fit it incorrectly

Barry only fools laugh at hornets (the flying kind) do you remember winchester bought out the 22 magnum rimfire back in the seventies to supposedly make the hornet obsolete because they new that not many shooters reloaded for them? but if you did the smart money was on the hornet shooter out to 150yrds.

ps demascus barrels should never be referred to as just common copper twisted wire sr my man and back in the fifties ELEY made 12ga shotgun cartridges with a reduced load of 7/8 oz at around 900fps instead of the normal 1oz to 1 and quarter load at 1100 to 1200fps.Looking at a well cared for demascus barrel beats any pizza topping.
Yes, and that was during my period of going through 500-1000 rounds a month and you could reload cheaper since China wasn't making bullets then. I never took the .22 Magnum seriously. I got a good deal on the rifle and it was bought just for sport shooting. I admit that I didn't even go back over the tables and compare bullets such as the 22 Swift, .243, etc when I bought it. I was Infantry for a while in the Army, so good fortune, bending the truth, and using some unmentionable appropriation methods I was able to fire way over 10,000 rounds of 5.56 at the Army ranges. This is just a conservative estimate because I was the Ammunition NCO when a lot of that was fired and I did the ordering. It's probably double that amount really. I would say that if you had a 5.56 rifle that was capable of firing automatic, that would be the round to choose for things like sport or home defense. Outside you can aim a 3 round burst low and let the first round skip and ricochet up while barrel rise does the rest with the last 2 rounds on a bad guy. The rifle is easy to just hold the trigger back and empty all 30 rounds very accurately into a pretty good group without using the sights, but I won't say how since it offends a few. This is good for inside the house of course, or if someone is trying to come through a door. I never thought that the 5.56 would last this long or become popular with the public.

Jim, when I was reloading back in the '70s I think all powder expressly excluded Damascus barrels of all types. I think the Sierra book also had a long section with scare facts about them.

Last edited by blw; 12-17-2015 at 11:48 AM. Reason: spelling
Old 12-17-2015, 01:33 PM
  #30568  
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My Dad's Lefevre 12 gauge stock had a cherry stock much like this one but with an actual reddish tint to it. I can't find a picture with the red tint. The whole stock was about the color of the front end of this one.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:38 PM
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That must had been a beautiful stock! My brother had a 870 Wingmaster circa mid 70s that had the most fantastic looking walnut stock. I'm afraid my old L.C. Smith has to make do with old original American Mahogany with the original chipped Bakelite butt plate.
Old 12-17-2015, 04:32 PM
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Just to put a damper on everything, I have the mortal metal remains of a #3 grade Lightweight, an Eagle grade w/2 bbl sets and, I believe, a Crown grade Smith that were burned in a fire.
Also a 20 ga Sterlingworth, a '90 Remington 10 ga, a couple rifles, a percussion pocket pistol and an English brass flint barrel.
They were given to me by a customer years ago when I was 'smithing.
I could have cried.

Terry
Old 12-17-2015, 09:08 PM
  #30571  
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Recently I became a proud owner of a Saito FA-62a Golden Knight!

I'll post pics later...The engine will power my Blackhorse Gilmore Red lion 46!
Old 12-18-2015, 04:18 AM
  #30572  
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Kostas, you'll love that engine, I have one of the first series plane Jane .62's. It's on an LT 40.
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Old 12-18-2015, 05:03 AM
  #30573  
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
My Dad's Lefevre 12 gauge stock had a cherry stock much like this one but with an actual reddish tint to it. I can't find a picture with the red tint. The whole stock was about the color of the front end of this one.
Dave that's a nice finish on the timber,demascus barrel patina is as good i love it.Sr the cheapest bolt action 22 hornet rifle you could buy back then was a tack driver no matter who was shootin

P3 did you buy the engine mount for your 62 ?
Old 12-18-2015, 05:15 AM
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Good morning Pete, I remember that the right barrel was what was called in that day a modified choke and the left barrel was called full choke. I don't know if that terminology is still in vogue or not.
I think I'm going to sell my ringless Saito .45 with the removable head. I need to finance another FA .40 for a twin.
Old 12-18-2015, 03:06 PM
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Morning dave,just started my christmas break and the first cup of coffee over here i think the chokes still go open(nil) modified,half,three quarter and full.Used to shoot comp trap and skeet with a miroku over and under (browning) 5000 that had screw in chokes and beautiful balance.Also once tried an over/under that really did have KFC engraved on the side plates which led to quite a few jokes i can't repeat here but it shot well.

Can you post a pic again of the ringless 45? and why did saito make them that way?

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