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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 05-06-2006, 05:08 PM
  #3051  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Pete:

I have right now an old FA-120 with a split pipe on it.

This one was my fault, I tried to reshape it slightly. Noticed the split and bent it back. Hasn't given me any problem since.

If there's a GOOD welding shop near yours could probably be fixed.

Alternately, any of the 12 mm exhaust parts will work on your FA-65, including the pipe and muffler for the FA-80. These are the old style cylindric, last time I checked Horizon still had them on hand. And they are a lot less expensive than the late cast style muffler.

Bill.
Old 05-06-2006, 05:16 PM
  #3052  
Harleyflyer
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I am new to four stroke engines. I recently got a Saito 100. I am just curious, other than adjusting the valves, is there any other type of maintenance that needs to be done periodically to this engine?

Thanks in advance.
Old 05-06-2006, 07:52 PM
  #3053  
loughbd
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Well I can't become a member because I'm on a modified status and the powers that be won't take me off. But... I thought maybe you guys would like to see some of the other stuff Saito made. This is a 60 Sized gasoline ignition engine. Schneurle ported and complete with tools, prop driver puller and all the ignition parts. Also came in a marine version. Hobby Shack imported about 50 of each. I bought two of each while I was working there. I also have a few of their steam engines and boilers. Saito made some real nice things beside four cycle engines.
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Old 05-06-2006, 07:57 PM
  #3054  
loughbd
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

You don't need to weld it. A good grade of silver solder works fine. I have repaired many Saito exhaust pipes. Maintanence? don't let it sit in its blow by goo in the crankcase. Oil the lower end well. I squirt WD-40 through the engine until it comes out the front bearing then give it a good shot of Marvel Mystery oil. I have a 25 year old 45 that is like new. Replaced the bearings once and they were worn out, not rusty.
Old 05-06-2006, 09:37 PM
  #3055  
William Robison
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pilotpete2:

Forgot to mention - you're in Club Saito now as number 276.
------------------------------------------
Bruce:

Silver solder works fine on a two stroke engine, but the exhaust of a four stroke gets into the crystallization temperatures for brass and bronze - sometimes they just fall apart again.

Bill.
Old 05-06-2006, 11:08 PM
  #3056  
loughbd
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Oh really?? These extensions were silver soldered on in 1983. They have had extensive run time and they are still as bright and shiney as the day I silver soldered them on. You just have to know what you're doing.
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Old 05-06-2006, 11:22 PM
  #3057  
William Robison
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Bully for you, Bruce. I'm glad you were sucfcessful.

You do need to start reading more carefully though. I did not say every time, I did not say most of the time, or even often. I said SOMETIMES thay would fall off.

Bill.
Old 05-07-2006, 12:00 AM
  #3058  
loughbd
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And sometimes lightning strikes but so seldom that there's no point in worrying about it. This isn't the only time I have silver soldered the exhaust on a four cycle engine and I have NEVER had one crystallize and fall apart. Not sometimes, NEVER. Is sometimes one in a thousand? One in a million? One in a hundred? You know what else, If it doesn't work for him he can always get it welded later. Why not try and save some money and time first. So negative.
Old 05-07-2006, 12:29 AM
  #3059  
loughbd
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Sometimes they fall off??? Sometimes they have earthquakes in San Francisco, Sometimes they have Tsunamis in Hawaii, Sometimes Someone gets killed by a shark in Australia. Sometimes a volcano erupts in the US. BUT... it doesn't happen enough to worry about it. Same with silver solder crystallizing and falling off. That 80 isn't the only 4 cycle engine that I have silver soldered an exhaust pipe on and I have NEVER had a silver solder joint fail. NEVER. Sometimes? Is that one in a hundred? One in a thousand? One in a million? Why not try and silver solder it.? If it works hooray, he saved time and money. If not, he's out a buck for silver solder. He can always get it welded if it doesn't work. Why so negative?

SOMETIMES a Saito engine fails. Does that mean we should quit buying them?
Old 05-07-2006, 12:53 AM
  #3060  
Sarge1947
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I had to send my wife by the HS today to pick up my first jug of fuel in many years for my Saito FA 65. She told the guy exactly what I said"15% Nitro and 18% synthetic/Castor blend". He sent me " Wildcat" 15% Nitro/18% Synthetic with no mention, on the label, of castor oil. I read here that Castor Oil is good for the Saito, what to do?
Sarge
Old 05-07-2006, 01:00 AM
  #3061  
loughbd
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You can use it like it is, add a little castor to it, or mix it with another gallon of fuel with castor in it. I wouldn't worry about using one gallon of synthetic only. You biggest worry would be rusted bearings and that isn't going to happen with one gallon.
Old 05-07-2006, 01:18 AM
  #3062  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: loughbd

Oh really?? These extensions were silver soldered on in 1983. They have had extensive run time and they are still as bright and shiney as the day I silver soldered them on. You just have to know what you're doing.

It is a question about how often you are using the engine with silversoldered exhaustpipe...

It is depent on how many hours in vibration + hi temperature before silversoldered parts will fall off..

Jens Eirik
Old 05-07-2006, 02:30 AM
  #3063  
Flyinhi1
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hey all, I've been reading some of this thread with interest lately as I've just broken in my first 4 stroke, a Saito fa100 on an OMP Katana V2 70. What an awesome set up. I am using an APC 15x4w prop, 15% Cool Power and I can't get used to the idea that this fuel states on the bottle to NOT use after run oil since the fuel has rust inhibitors in it already. This has been a religious regimen after using any of my glow engines and I wonder what you guys think. Does this fuel really take of your engine while your plane is hangared until the next flying session? I love the sound this engine makes and the power it has even though I'm still running it pig-rich. I have a little over an hour on it now and in the morning I'm going to start tuning the LS needle as mentioned earlier in this thread. Good info it sounds like to me. I was a little concerned at how fast this engine was slurping up a tank of fuel at a time but I figured since this is the biggest engine I've ever owned it must be par for the course. Now, because of all the homework you all have done I think I'll be a lot happier camper soon. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experiences and I hope I can contribute something some day as well. Later.
Old 05-07-2006, 02:45 AM
  #3064  
kevhunt
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It's a nice plane... Lota bang for the buck... Be even nicer with a .72 in it..
My thoughts exactly...Kevin
Old 05-07-2006, 06:53 AM
  #3065  
FFOURU
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OK, stupid question time.... What is "Schneurle ported"? I have heard the erm many times, but never knew just what it meant.
Old 05-07-2006, 07:45 AM
  #3066  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Sarge, I add about 1/3 cup of Bakers AA to a gallon of Morgan Cool Power 10%. They say that the caster oil that you get at the drug store is just as good, but I can't swear to that. If it is (comments, anyone) that might be an easy solution to your problem.

Bob
Old 05-07-2006, 07:53 AM
  #3067  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

"Schneurle ported" has to do with two cycle engines. Saito's are four cycle.

Most present day two cycle engines are "Schneurle ported". The intake ports are front and rear with a boost port opposite the exhaust. These engines like to run in the 2 cycle mode and are more effecient and throttleable than the Loop scavenged 2 cycle engines of many years ago.
Old 05-07-2006, 08:20 AM
  #3068  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Sarge:

Add four ounces of castor oil per gallon of fuel. Powermaster and Omega have the castor blend, I thought Wildcat did also.
--------------------------------------------
Flyinhi1:

You too should add four ounces of castor oil per gallon of fuel. After run oil? I also use Morgan fuel, the Omega blended with castor oil. But I still use AR oil. Cheap insurance, and until Morgan agrees to buy all the replacement bearings I need I’ll continue using the AR oil. You should too.

I have put you in as number 277 in Club Saito.

Bill.
Old 05-07-2006, 08:28 AM
  #3069  
William Robison
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Bob (and all):

Drug store castor oil is guaranteed to be the lowest ricin content. Other than that it is still Baker's AA castor oil. Perfectly OK for the engines, just a bit more expensive.

Bill.
Old 05-07-2006, 09:29 AM
  #3070  
khodges
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Continuing Saga of the Saito I Can't Seem to Tune--

Here's my setup: 1.00 Saito, mounted horizontally, spraybar 1/4 inch above tank centerline, straight pipe removed, I now have a 90 degree exhaust adapter, standard header and muffler (see attached pics) with a shortened silicone extension. I'm running 15% Cool Power 4-stroke fuel. I have tried 14-6 two blade, 14-8 two blade, and 14-7 three blade props, which give me changes in flight performance (climb, braking, top speed, etc) but no difference in engine performance. Top end needle is about 2-3/4 turns out, low end not sure, but screw is slightly below surface of throttle arm.

Here's what I get: from idle to 75% throttle, good response, smooth transition from idle (just a puff of heavier smoke and the slightest cough), and smooth operation up to 75%, at full throttle it will run fine for 3-5 seconds and then drop off about 1000-1500 rpm. I initially get about 9500-10K of strong power, then it drops to about 8500 and sounds a little strained and not as smooth, plus the healthy smoke trail disappears. As soon as I drop to about 75% throttle I get the smoke back. Opening the needle more does nothing at WOT, but it does get richer below 75%.

Pinch test: at idle, it runs about 2 seconds, then accelerates for another 2 seconds before sagging, and does this exact thing all the way up to 75 % throttle, measured in 3 click intervals. Above 75%, it immediately sags and dies. If I partially occlude the fuel line, it begins to sag, but I can keep it running if I immediately release the line. It sounds to me like I'm pretty good on mixture all the way up, but it leans out on top end, like I can't deliver enough fuel. The throttle bore is completely open at full throttle on the stick, and I am using the largest diameter fuel line that will fit on the nipple on the carb. The clunk is clear, and I can find no air leaks along the path of the fuel line, no bubbles in the line while it is running. The fact that I can initially get good full throttle response before it drops back tells me that I just can't deliver fuel fast enough to the carb, and after the carb has used what little reserve flow is in the line before I go to full power, it can't pull enough. What suggestions/comments do you guys have? I've been flying the plane, get good performance, but no better than I could get with the .80 I used to have because I can't harness the last bit of top end of the 1.00. Reckon the limiting factor could be the hole in the clunk not big enough? That is the only place I can figure a restriction in the fuel system.

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Old 05-07-2006, 09:43 AM
  #3071  
FFOURU
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

OK, so then the Saito "Gasoline" engine in the previous post with photos must be a two stroke, or am I missing something here?
Old 05-07-2006, 12:59 PM
  #3072  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Flyinhi1

I can't get used to the idea that this fuel states on the bottle to NOT use after run oil since the fuel has rust inhibitors in it already. This has been a religious regimen after using any of my glow engines and I wonder what you guys think. Does this fuel really take of your engine while your plane is hangared until the next flying session?
Nope.

My tests indicate that although Morgan's Coolpower oil may contain rust inhibitors, it's also mildly hygroscopic and becomes cloudy when exposed to moisture -- generally meaning that there are tiny droplets of water suspended in the oil rather than remaining on the surface of the oil film.

My test-piece of plain steel now shows small spots of rust under the area which was coated with the coolpower/methanol solution but no rust at all under the methanol/castor coating.

When the metal is cooled to below the dew point, droplets of water can be seen sitting on the seemingly impenitrable castor film but the Coolpower film becomes milky as the moisture forms.

Coolpower synthetic oil definitely provides a measure of protection when compared to bare uncoated steel -- but it does *not* stop moisture from reaching the vulnerable metal underneath in the way that castor oil does.
Old 05-07-2006, 02:41 PM
  #3073  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill, me and chuckar were flying today and since i have the breakin time and +14 flights on my 180 i decided to lean the high on down, so with tom holding the plane and tx i proceeded to lean her on down and get peak but she would not peak,it would not gain any rpms when leaned down to almost dying, it even dropped a couple hundred rpms before starting to die out, i have it out 4 turns and have been flying it there, what would cause it not to gain rpms before dying like all my other saitos, so i just put it back at 4 out and flew it rich(lots of smoke) till i talked to you.bottom is 3 turns out and dies evenly with pinch test, will die if i go in another .25 turns.

thanks!!
Old 05-07-2006, 03:08 PM
  #3074  
William Robison
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Gary:

As a guess you're using a prop that's on the higher end of the range, and when you get to 8500 rpm (guess) while still rich the engine just isn't powerful engough to turn it any faster. Check the earlier posts about crisp throttle and sluggish throttle.

With the higher load you do have to be wary about the engine rpm rising in the air, so once you get to the rich end lewave it there and fly. If too much smoke you can lean it a little at a time between flights until the smoke decreases, but still be careful not to go too far.

You could try a lower pitch prop for adjusting, to get the sharp changes, then after going to the rich rpm drop put the flight prop back on and try it with no further change in the mixture.

Bill.
Old 05-07-2006, 04:22 PM
  #3075  
loughbd
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I don't keep complete record of how many hours and minutes I run an engine. This 80 was on a Dave Splatt Waco YMF3 for two years and it was flown 3 or four times most weekends except for the winter, It was then on a Goldberg cub for about 5 years and flown quite a bit. I would say it would be safe to say it has in excess of 30 hours on it. I bought the engine in Sasebo Japan in 1980 and used to just run it on a bench because I liked to hear it run. I think if the silver solder joint was going to fail, it would have done it by now.

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