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Old 01-31-2016, 04:20 AM
  #30901  
Hobbsy
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Pete, I can't repeat this as gospel but I've, "heard" that Horizon writes their own manuals or re-writes Saitos Manuals.
Old 01-31-2016, 05:10 AM
  #30902  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
Pete, I can't repeat this as gospel but I've, "heard" that Horizon writes their own manuals or re-writes Saitos Manuals.
Horizon also determines which engines are "discontinued".

The GK series & the FA-30 are just examples. Either of those are still in production & available from RC JAPAN. RC Japan often beats Horizon's prices even with shipping. Most of the glow twins are still available too.

As far as "warranty"? Having seen the type of "warranty" work coming out of Horizon, I would rather work with RC Japan for the parts & do my own repairs. In the past I have done so W/Horizon. I have never send an engine back tothem for repairs.

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Old 01-31-2016, 08:18 AM
  #30903  
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Thinking a 65 is what I need for my Citabria. I may get the wing done this season Its my first builders kit, where only the ribs are die crushed, everything else is hand made from sticks and blocks.
Old 01-31-2016, 01:48 PM
  #30904  
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Comments to the above posts. Saito manuals, yes Horizon do produce their own manuals for Saito engines, I have a number of them in particular the gas engines. In all cases the most striking difference is the fuel mixes recommended. I usually use the Japanese versions but in the case of the gas engines I find the Horizon version more easily readable. But in all cases I use the OEM guides for fuel and "run ins" until I seek to crank up the performance. Service and advice from Japan is excellent. Crush ribs, that is an old kit. I build the Great Planes Citarbria for "40" size (I use a Saito 50 in it). Use a very sharp knife to cut them out
Old 01-31-2016, 01:52 PM
  #30905  
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That's an Horizon Hobby manual, you should be able to get a copy of the OEM manual from Saito. As I said in another post I use the Saito specs for run in and fuel mix but I refer to Horizon in some cases where I perceive a difference. Hope that helps
Old 01-31-2016, 08:36 PM
  #30906  
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I agree with SrTelemaster150: RC Japan is excellent, I've purchased engines from them in the past. Fast shipping, better availability (more models available), and better pricing even after shipping. Horizon can keep their "warrantee".
Old 02-01-2016, 04:06 AM
  #30907  
SrTelemaster150
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
That's an Horizon Hobby manual, you should be able to get a copy of the OEM manual from Saito. As I said in another post I use the Saito specs for run in and fuel mix but I refer to Horizon in some cases where I perceive a difference. Hope that helps
What do the "OEM" manuals say about castor?
Old 02-01-2016, 04:27 AM
  #30908  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Thinking a 65 is what I need for my Citabria. I may get the wing done this season Its my first builders kit, where only the ribs are die crushed, everything else is hand made from sticks and blocks.
Funny that i'm thinking you need an 82

Reading the knockabout saito manuals we get here can be difficult,they are brief and don't translate well as english is spoken and inter pirated here.Reading the libel lawyer crazy american version was astounding at first but then you see the funny side,i would not look forward to selling an unsupervised ball point biro over your way.
Old 02-01-2016, 05:49 AM
  #30909  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Funny that i'm thinking you need an 82

Reading the knockabout saito manuals we get here can be difficult,they are brief and don't translate well as english is spoken and inter pirated here.Reading the libel lawyer crazy american version was astounding at first but then you see the funny side,i would not look forward to selling an unsupervised ball point biro over your way.

Ball ;point biro?
Old 02-01-2016, 06:58 AM
  #30910  
Jim Oliver
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"Reading the libel lawyer crazy american version was astounding at first but then you see the funny side,i would not look forward to selling an unsupervised ball point biro over your way."


As was stated in one of Clint's films, "Worms gotta eat, too".
Old 02-01-2016, 12:52 PM
  #30911  
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Snr Tele, Re castor in OEM manuals, for my 56 and other later engines, 20% synthetic NO castor. For the early 65 and that era, max of 10% castor (as I remember) but with later 65's etc all synthetic was preferred. This definite statement about castor has caused problems with our Texaco events where the 20% synthetic oils things hasn't been catered for with CD supplied fuel much to my annoyance. Got around it though bu using an Enya 41 (glo) 4 stroke. Re the litagation thing, Biro's are "pens" over here. Micky Dolance (Monkees) mother had the patent for them in the Asia - Pacific area for many years EXCEPT for my old boss Reg Ansett who had Australian distributorship rights. Biro's = ball points = Pens
Old 02-01-2016, 01:40 PM
  #30912  
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I received the .65 today that I had mentioned a day or two ago. It's different inside than any other Saito I've seen. The cam drive gear pin is installed length wise in the crank, the carb barrel is held in by small wire circlip. Boca Bearings on the way, cam, rod, piston, cylinder etc. all good. Exhaust valve and rocker a little draggy.

PS, it says MK on the box.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:27 AM
  #30913  
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Snr Tele, Re castor in OEM manuals, for my 56 and other later engines, 20% synthetic NO castor. For the early 65 and that era, max of 10% castor (as I remember) but with later 65's etc all synthetic was preferred. This definite statement about castor has caused problems with our Texaco events where the 20% synthetic oils things hasn't been catered for with CD supplied fuel much to my annoyance. Got around it though bu using an Enya 41 (glo) 4 stroke. Re the litagation thing, Biro's are "pens" over here. Micky Dolance (Monkees) mother had the patent for them in the Asia - Pacific area for many years EXCEPT for my old boss Reg Ansett who had Australian distributorship rights. Biro's = ball points = Pens
Wasnt it Michael Nesmiths mother who invented liquid paper ? Same group different day ! I guess you cant have one without the other . Cheers the pope
Old 02-02-2016, 04:26 AM
  #30914  
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Ball ;point biro?
Correct,it's a conjointly used tool to be used by a loving concesual couple when they sign the MAD (mutually assured destruction) marriage agreement/certificate course if your rich you would go for a hand dipped fountain pen on parchment paper.

Dead right popey if only they offered 'white out' at the wedding sign in
Old 02-02-2016, 07:30 AM
  #30915  
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I know, this is yesteryear stuff, but I like a certain amount of yesteryear stuff. It keeps things in perspective. My newly acquired Saito .65 has an interesting carb. It is a metered carb with an airbleed trim, the spray bar is bent, deliberately so the airflow over it changes as the barrel rotates. That's true of others as well but this one's different. The fine wire circlip that holds the barrel in place does so very precisely, the barrel can't move laterally. The metering slot depends on a precise fit to the inlet passage.

The cam has what appears to be mylar or delryn washers on each side.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:08 AM
  #30916  
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Very well engineered for its time. It neat to see how these engines and their component evolve over time.
Old 02-02-2016, 08:13 AM
  #30917  
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Interesting stuff, at least to me, it's a castor queen but it rusted anyway, new Boca's on the way, believe it or not Horizon actually has some parts.
Old 02-02-2016, 08:26 AM
  #30918  
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It would only make sense if Horizon did write their own manuals for the part of the world. Discontinuing stocking the .30 was a bad idea. People love those engines and just how expensive is a little shelf space?
Old 02-02-2016, 09:34 AM
  #30919  
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Originally Posted by blw
It would only make sense if Horizon did write their own manuals for the part of the world. Discontinuing stocking the .30 was a bad idea. People love those engines and just how expensive is a little shelf space?
It comes down to how fast would they sell vs. something else taking up the same space.
Old 02-02-2016, 09:56 AM
  #30920  
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I finally got a chance to run the .50 I put new bearings into a couple of weeks back. I ran it about 40 minutes.

Engine===Saito .50 refurbished with new Boca Bearings
Fuel=====Wildcat 2/4 with 10 % nitromethane and 18% full synthetic
Prop=====Xoar 12x6
Exhaust==new cast/ revised Saito muffler
Max rpm=9,550
Best idle=2,350
Plug====Fox Miracle
Good clean acceleration in midrange
Nice clean pro-longed idle @ 2,350
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:23 PM
  #30921  
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
Interesting stuff, at least to me, it's a castor queen but it rusted anyway, new Boca's on the way, believe it or not Horizon actually has some parts.
I think rust has more to do with storage conditions than the type of lube used.
Old 02-02-2016, 01:53 PM
  #30922  
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Popey, you are right re white out (and Bic biro) realised it after I sent the post. My old boss Reg made heaps out of those things plus the Diners Card franchise. But the a/line was his real passion along with Cadillacs. Dave, you have a very early 65 either send it to me or guard it with your life against visiting croweaters and sandgropers. Those pads are mylar and don't leave them out or fit them incorrectly. Use at least 20% oil in your fuel mix (cooling plus lubrication) and BTB the beast will operate on little to no nitro.
Old 02-02-2016, 02:06 PM
  #30923  
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Thanks Dan, I agree.

FNQ, this test by Clarence Lee has pretty much the same pictures I took. Note knob in the center of the piston, it's one of the tells for the high compression versions.
http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...-65%20(2).html

This is the piston for the latest or last version, note, no knob. The compression ratio with my version is 12.7 to 1, the latest is 8.6 to 1.Big difference.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:12 PM
  #30924  
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I need some opinions I am finishing up my Cub with a Saito 100 and i used the engine mount that i got with the engine. It is a metal mount with tapped holes for the bolts. The bolts do not go all the way thru because the top side of the mount is on an angle with no way to put a lock nut . The engine feels secure should i try it like this with a ground test and why is the top side made with an angle?
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:58 PM
  #30925  
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Originally Posted by p3arljam
I need some opinions I am finishing up my Cub with a Saito 100 and i used the engine mount that i got with the engine. It is a metal mount with tapped holes for the bolts. The bolts do not go all the way thru because the top side of the mount is on an angle with no way to put a lock nut . The engine feels secure should i try it like this with a ground test and why is the top side made with an angle?
Hi there P3 there is so much "meat " on that mount that u could file , grind a flat spot for the nut to sit flat and drill , tap etc all the way through .Or you could use it how it is and just check now and again for the tightness . Cheers the pope

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