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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 05-25-2006, 03:18 AM
  #3276  
w8ye
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Here's a picture of the device.....
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:52 PM
  #3277  
Thunderchild
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Pictures I got.... Instructions I don't []

TC
Old 05-25-2006, 10:18 PM
  #3278  
CrashBurn69
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I just noticed, Horizon has the velocity stacks back in stock for the mid size engines, if anyone is interested.
Old 05-26-2006, 07:20 AM
  #3279  
dougwill
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Hi! All
Weather here in Ohio has been crazy. Chance of storms all day today (Fri.) Just finished up my wife's plane (Sig kadet LT-40) Nice plane. Powered by a Saito 65. Had to pull the engine last night after taxi lessions in the back yard. Engine over heating and HS needle that wouldn't richen up. Guess the problem.
I had already ordered a carb. o-ring kit. I hope the intake o-ring was the problem. This is the third one I have had to replace this year. 72, 80 and now the 65. in all fairness to Saitos. They were all used older engines. This engine did not have an aluminum ring holding o-ring in. It was plastic of some sort. There must be a better way to seal an intake pipe than relying on the carb screws.
All that being said. I'm hooked on that great sound and power. That engine looks great even on a trainer.

Doug
Old 05-26-2006, 06:33 PM
  #3280  
BQuartucy
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill R,
Can you describe the path that the oil in the fuel takes to lubricate the cam bearing?
Old 05-27-2006, 08:01 AM
  #3281  
Hobbsy
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My latest Saito find, it was under the end of a stack of about 25 Saitos in white boxes. A fellow bought it several years ago and never mounted or used it, he did leave four Fox Miracle plugs in it which is perfect for me. Now all I have do is read constructions and learn what all those extra fittings are for.
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Old 05-27-2006, 09:57 AM
  #3282  
William Robison
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All:

I have rewritten the seftion of Saito Notes concerning pumps on thetwins, reproduced here. The earlier version had some errors, you can cut and paste this into your copy, or get a complete new copy - just ask for it.

Saito builds three mechanically different series twins.

First, the smallest have a single cam shaft. All four push rod tubes go to a single cam shaft chamber on the bottom of the crank case. This type has even firing intervals.

The second and third types use two cam shafts, one for each cylinder.

The second type has only one crank pin, the pistons move in the same direction at all times; while one is going up the other is coming down. As a result the crankcase volume is constant, there’s no pumping action for crankcase venting. As a result the acids from combustion leakage will accumulate in the case and destroy the bottom end of the engine unless the operator is religious about flushing and oiling the engine after operation. Not many people are, and the early odd-fire twins suffered because of this. The later odd-fire twins have an added scavenge pump for forced breathing of the case. The FA-90T and the FA-100Y have a vane pump at the rear of the case, the FA-130T has a diaphragm pump driven by the number one cylinder cam.

The third type twin is, of course, even firing. They have two crank pins, the piston movement is opposite, giving them sufficient pumping action in the case with no added complexity.

So what do we do with the pumps where fuel tank pressure is concerned? Still talking about the odd-fire engines. The vane pumps and the early diaphragm pumps are internally ported to the crankcase, to use them for tank pressure is the same as using the vent on a single cylinder engine for pressure. The later diaphragm pumps have two nipples on the pump body, tank pressure set up is covered in the owner’s manuals as well as in these notes – look at the section on the FA-300TTDP.

The diaphragm pump on the FA-300TTDP is purely for tank pressure, again, the connections and adjustment are in the manual, and covered elsewhere in these notes.

Bill.
Old 05-27-2006, 11:24 AM
  #3283  
dfkroft
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

After acquiring a Satio FA 90T, and reading most of the threads. I too would like to become a member. OK.
Old 05-27-2006, 12:34 PM
  #3284  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

New members on the list:

294 wkunkel
295 dfkroft

Welcome to you both.

Bill.
Old 05-27-2006, 12:56 PM
  #3285  
William Robison
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BQuartucy:

Can you describe the path that the oil in the fuel takes to lubricate the cam bearing?
Saito, in common with most other model four stroke engines, depends on luck as much as engineering to oil the cam and its bearings.

On the engineering side, the piston ring has a much larger gap than would be expected, this is to allow more leakage, blowing the unburned oil from the combustion chamber through the ring gap into the lower part of the crankcase where it accumulates. After the engine has been running this accumulated oil gets to be more than needed, the excess is blown out the case vent.

Where the luck comes in, with the older style rear vent nipple, is getting the oil to the cam. As the engine runs the oil is whipped into a vapor, this works its way through the rear bearing into the cam area, also oiling the front bearing. The rocker gear depends on the little oil that goes up front, and then leaking past the tappets to get to the overhead. When the engine is mounted inverted enough oil puddles in the cam box to get plenty into the valve gear through this leakage, but an upright mounting usually needs to have the rocker covers pulled for oiling often.

The newer engines have the vent nipple on the forward part of the case, opposite the cam box. This forces the oil through the rear bearing and does a much better job of lubing the cam and tappets.

Now. The oil itself. Since only a small part of the oil goes through the rear bearing (With the rear vent) it’s important to have a good oil. And since all the oil has to leak past the piston ring, and synthetic tends to burn in the combustion chamber leaving very little to leak past the ring, you should see this is another argument in favor of castor oil which does not burn in normal engine operation.

OK, so you say the oil leaks past the ring on the compression stroke, before the synthetic has a chance to burn. Some does, but the majority blows past the ring on the power stroke, the cylinder pressure is much higher then than on compression. The synthetic has burned by then, the castor survives and goes into the crankcase.

Enough for now.

Bill.

PS: Got a new camera. Not just bells and whistles on it. It is so fancy that there are whistles on the bells, and bells on the whistles. Paid a lot more than I wanted to, but a lot less than I could have. Wr.

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Old 05-27-2006, 01:17 PM
  #3286  
Deadeye
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Bill,
Can ya sign me up as well? I've got a 100 and two 82s. 125 coming as soon as I can scrape up the cashola. Love these engines! Thanks!
Old 05-27-2006, 01:26 PM
  #3287  
William Robison
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Randy:

I'm surprised. I thought you were already in, but I find you weren't.

Deadeye is now number 296. Welcome to you also, sir.

Bill.
Old 05-27-2006, 01:43 PM
  #3288  
N1EDM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

With WL's kind permission, I've posted his latest version of Saito Notes on my club's website for everyone to access and download.

Head up to http://www.ssrcc.org/Secret%20Page.htm for his latest and greatest.

Thanks, Bill

Bob M
Old 05-27-2006, 01:53 PM
  #3289  
Ernie Misner
 
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill, what make and model is your new camera. Probably a digital Leica point and shoot type from the name on the lens?

Torque Wrench (Dave), where in the heck did you find the pile of Saitos to choose from? Way to go!

Thanks,

Ernie
Old 05-27-2006, 01:54 PM
  #3290  
William Robison
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Bob:

Guess what? Your posted version is already out of date. I've just added the szection on engine lubrication, text is in my post above.

The section is titled "General engine lubrication" and is inserted just before "Valve and rocker lubrication."

If possible you can cut and paste from the post above, or I can yet again zend you a fresh copy.

Bill.
Old 05-27-2006, 02:15 PM
  #3291  
William Robison
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Ernie:

Elmarit f2.8 6-72 mm zoom lens. focus down to 1/2" in front of the lens, 6mp resolution with 32 bit color, mechanical shutter from 30 seconds to 1/2000 second, Full manual exposure control or automatic with aperture OR shutter priority as well as full automatic exposure, it will even record a 20 minute continuous broadcast quality video. Thirty frames per second with no breaks.

Point and shoot? I really don't think so. But it CAN be used that way.

Still not telling the model, don't want people to know how much money I blew on a toy. But it was a bunch.

Bill.

>>EDIT: One other thing. Its ISO sensitivity is selectable up to ASA1600. That's a lot better than pushed Tri-X film. Take a picture with the light of a match. wr.
Old 05-27-2006, 02:32 PM
  #3292  
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I ran the 1.30 for about 45 minutes on PowerMaster 15% fuel with 18% syn/castor blend, my first time ever using the PM, it would run without glow power after about 10 minutes. I did have a problem, however minor, the carbs were not in sync. The left carb was completely closed when the right one was at idle, naturally the left cylinder stopped at idle. It was a pita to fix requiring the engine to be removed from the homemade engine stand I made for my Maloneys. It has very good compression already, my neighbors are having a cookout in their back yard so I'll not run it anymore today. I ran it with a Graupner 14x7 but have a Graupner 15x8 mounted for the next running. I also used a Cline regulator with a Tee to the carbs, it worked like a champ. I used two of the new Saito exhaust pipes and two of the new cast mufflers instead of the supplied straight stacks.
Old 05-27-2006, 02:41 PM
  #3293  
William Robison
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Dave:

Welcome to the world of balancing multi cylinders. Now consider a seven or nine cylinder radial.

Haw.

Bill.
Old 05-27-2006, 02:47 PM
  #3294  
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Ernie, my friend at Apex Hobbies keeps about 250 engines and about 500 kits and ARFs in stock at all times.

W, I have .90 TS and a Laser 1.80 V-twin but they never presented any problems at all.
Old 05-27-2006, 02:49 PM
  #3295  
loughbd
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Hey Bill The Saito FA80T was Saito's first twin. I bought three of them when they first came out when I was living in Japan. The first ones came with a single carb. Gen Saito knew right fom the beginning that the single throw crank engine would need some way to get the crap out of the lower end. The 80T came with the radial vane pump right from the beginning and if you read the instructions the pump is mentioned for that very reason. Those engines always had that pump on them.

Never had any problem with corrosion in the lower end but then I always used castor oil and blew WD40 through the engine before oiling. The WD40 got all the crud out and the oil prevented rust. Still have all three engines. They are now 26 years old.
Old 05-27-2006, 03:27 PM
  #3296  
N1EDM
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OK Bill, the section has been cut and pasted in... Anyone who downloaded that file before 4:25PM EST can go up and re-download it now.

http://www.ssrcc.org/Secret%20Page.htm

Bob
Old 05-27-2006, 05:12 PM
  #3297  
William Robison
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Bob:

Looks good. You even got it in th right place! Thanks.

Ernie:

Another thing I forgot to mention on the camera is gyro stabilization for telephoto, and using the electronic zoom along with the optical 48X is still high quality images, up to 66x with lower resolution. "Point and shoot?" Not hardly.

Bill.
Old 05-27-2006, 06:10 PM
  #3298  
loughbd
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Bill,

Here is a picture of one of my Saito FA80T's. As you can see it has the single carb arrangement. That is how it came. I bought these in Japan before they were available in the US. They were the first in a long line of saito twins. If you look at the back side picture you will see it has the radial vane pump on it. It came this way from the word go. I whined to Gen Saito about how one cylinder always ran rich and would quit at idle. He sent me three of the then new twin carbs at no charge. That is in the third picture. Setting an multi cylinderengine to run well is easy if you have a carb per cylinder. You can set each one to that cylinder's needs. With just one carb one cylinder always runs richer than the other. Of course having 9 carbs on a technopower nine would be a little ridiculous.
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Old 05-27-2006, 06:57 PM
  #3299  
William Robison
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Bruce:

The problem is not the single carb as such, but rather the uneven intake intervals inherent in an odd-firing twin cylinder engine. You will note all the Saito twins that have even firing intervals have only one carb except the FA-300TTDP. And there it’s for added power, just as you hop up your car by, among other things, adding more carbs.

The first intake pulse draws the fuel and starts it moving in the pipe, then the second pulse has the fuel already moving and gets a richer mixture as a result. Then during the long interval the fuel slows again, and the cycle repeats. An even fire twin, with equal intervals, has the same remaining flow for each cylinder’s intake, so the problem isn’t there. The simplest cure is a separate carb for each cylinder, this is what Saito has done.

On a radial engine the upper cylinders tend to go lean, but this is purely a matter of gravity pulling the fuel vapor to the lower cylinders. They have what is called a “Diffuser fan” to minimize this. And I too would hate to be setting nine carbs on one engine as an everyday thing. But I have done race engines with one carb per cylinder, from a low of two up to a total of twelve on one engine. Here’s a picture of a full race four cam V-8 to pique your interest. Yes, eight carbs.

Bill.

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Old 05-27-2006, 07:36 PM
  #3300  
rlmcnii
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Sir William,
Is that a 500cc Moto Guzzi V8? Have never seen the real thing, or a picture of the engine. Must be something in the water in N. Italy.

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