Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 01-03-2019, 12:01 PM
  #38401  
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 39 Posts
Default

well guys, if you don't know, sorry to tell you, bad news here,,

I was looking to buy fuel about 3 months ago, I could not find any around here or with-in 150 miles. I was going to buy straight from WildCat, so I called them, but I needed to buy at leased 8 cases to get the better price, but I just didn't want so much setting around here so long, yet even 4 cases would have been more than I needed setting here, so I didn't order it, well go figure, I should have ordered those 4 cases !!!! I just found out the price per gallon has jumped some $12, my God Nitro has jumped high !!.

I guess I will have to start mixing my own, about the only thing I like about that is the better price and the fact that I wont be putting a dye in it, I have no need at all to dye my fuel, I know there is a guy up the road from me, at one time he was selling 30 gallon jugs or Methanol, but again I don't need that much setting around here.

if the guys in club are willing to mix their own we can get together on that ??

Jim Bob Yee Saito Freak
Ps, I think we should rename the club to "the Saito Freak's Saito Club",, that will fit well

Last edited by the Wasp; 01-03-2019 at 12:12 PM. Reason: opps, I forgot the "a" for "a guy", the cat was talking to me again,he can be a jerk at times
Old 01-03-2019, 12:25 PM
  #38402  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 10,000
Received 97 Likes on 88 Posts
Default

I have a case of SIG fuel as well as several half used bottles that are clean, but old, which means low nitro but still usable. If it jumped $12, then it will be $30 a gallon for the Wildcat I use. If it gets that high when ready for more I will just convert everything to gas and be done with it.
Old 01-03-2019, 02:24 PM
  #38403  
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,850
Received 93 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by the Wasp
well guys, if you don't know, sorry to tell you, bad news here,,

I was looking to buy fuel about 3 months ago, I could not find any around here or with-in 150 miles. I was going to buy straight from WildCat, so I called them, but I needed to buy at leased 8 cases to get the better price, but I just didn't want so much setting around here so long, yet even 4 cases would have been more than I needed setting here, so I didn't order it, well go figure, I should have ordered those 4 cases !!!! I just found out the price per gallon has jumped some $12, my God Nitro has jumped high !!.

I guess I will have to start mixing my own, about the only thing I like about that is the better price and the fact that I wont be putting a dye in it, I have no need at all to dye my fuel, I know there is a guy up the road from me, at one time he was selling 30 gallon jugs or Methanol, but again I don't need that much setting around here.

if the guys in club are willing to mix their own we can get together on that ??

Jim Bob Yee Saito Freak
Ps, I think we should rename the club to "the Saito Freak's Saito Club",, that will fit well
Yep, I posted a few PMs to fellows last year telling folks prices would be spiking and suggesting getting some group orders together. I got the tip from my nitromethane dealer. I bought four, five gallon cans at that time. We still have the local guy who delivers methanol to your door in 50 gallon drums at around $2.50/gallon. Shop around is all I can say. The fuel dealers also show up at the Toledo show with excellent prices as there are no shipping fees.

This may also mean Saito will be moth balling some more glow engines, likely the larger and multi cylinder.

Could make for some real deals on used engines as the faint of heart, a gasp at the new prices divest themselves of glow. The rest may move over to gasoline but a percentage of even those will give up.

The times are changing but I will never turn away from methanol fuel

Can't blame anyone who does however.
Old 01-03-2019, 04:40 PM
  #38404  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,648
Received 65 Likes on 65 Posts
Default Club Saito Fuel Coop

I'm in, just give me a holler when you all are ready. I'm not really interested in running the coop, just interested in contributing funds and buying the mixed fuel at a reasonable price. I'm not giving up glow anytime soon. I have no gassers and only one 3D electric plane.
Old 01-03-2019, 07:06 PM
  #38405  
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 39 Posts
Default

I would much rather burn straight Methanol with an ignition than gas, but I do not want the extra bits that come with an ignition

maybe I will change my user name to "Sad about the Nitro Prices"

Jim
Old 01-03-2019, 07:24 PM
  #38406  
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 933
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

So far, Iím lucky my LHS sells glow fuel at reasonable prices ($13-25/gal). But I have noticed inventory is much lower lately. Iím not opposed to mixing my own if I had to. Heck, I just bought a quart of Klotz to cut some fuel not long ago. Finding methanol is not hard. Any local speed shop should carry it for $2-3/gal. The problem is the nitro. I found some online but you need to buy a 4 gal case of it for over $200.
Old 01-03-2019, 08:15 PM
  #38407  
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 933
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default Saito 100

Update on my 100. Itís a little worse than expected. The intake valve and intake tappet has rust on it. I think it was the victim of prolonged storage. I noticed when I first took it apart the top end was just flooded with oil. Now I know why.

Anyways, I realize the proper thing to do is to order replacement parts for the tappet, valves and maybe even springs since one was compressed for so long. The question is if I cleaned it up and removed the rust would that be good enough? For the valves I used 0000 steel wool and feels very smooth now. The tappets may need a bath in evap-o-rust.


Old 01-04-2019, 12:55 AM
  #38408  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

There's some clever thieving blokes out there quicky when it comes to disguising engines that have been left to rot so to speak.Rust is easy to see and clean off,before cleaning it's easy to feel because some of the corrosion is above the valve stem surface and feels rough.Once you polish it only the pitting remains and this you will not feel,it needs a good visual.I'd ignore pitting on the valve stem as long as the valve head and seat faces are ok.Might as well do valve springs,cheap as chips which reminds me...here in aussie we work metric and our aussie dollar is about 75c US so i converted the price we pay per 5ltr bottle of 10% to your figures.We pay well over forty bucks a gallon here,not much cheaper to mix my own but...i get to add my own,first press,degummed virgin castor oil,tastes pretty good too

ps 'sad about nitro prices jim' i gave up waiting to hear about your calculater so i grabbed an old one of mine out of the desk draw and gave it a good thrashing on the desk top
Old 01-04-2019, 02:56 AM
  #38409  
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,850
Received 93 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Quikturn
Update on my 100. Itís a little worse than expected. The intake valve and intake tappet has rust on it. I think it was the victim of prolonged storage. I noticed when I first took it apart the top end was just flooded with oil. Now I know why.

Anyways, I realize the proper thing to do is to order replacement parts for the tappet, valves and maybe even springs since one was compressed for so long. The question is if I cleaned it up and removed the rust would that be good enough? For the valves I used 0000 steel wool and feels very smooth now. The tappets may need a bath in evap-o-rust.


Don't fret too much, not as bad as it looks. The parts will clean up. Avoid over-doing any cleaning with abrasives of coarse grit like 600. Also be especially tender when cleaning the valve seating face . I can send you a bit of Micromesh cloth in ultra fine 1200 to 4000 grit to polish up the tappets and valve stems. You can also do well by gingerly using Comet Cleanser and water with a wet sponge. It is a good idea to break the glaze on the tappet faces lightly as well as the cam lobes.

The springs that rust while compressed often do lose their tension to some degree and in full size engines are more prone to breakage. Little risk in replacing them.

I have salvaged many engines similar to yours and had fine service from them.

Hope this helps
Gary
Old 01-04-2019, 03:52 AM
  #38410  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by the Wasp
I would much rather burn straight Methanol with an ignition than gas, but I do not want the extra bits that come with an ignition

maybe I will change my user name to "Sad about the Nitro Prices"

Jim
Please don't fret Jim, Saitos run perfectly well sans nitro methane, our friends in Europe and other countries have Saitos that have never seen a drop of it.

That engine appears to have had a lot of moisture in it judging by the stains on the steel parts. And had not been run much either.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 01-04-2019 at 03:56 AM. Reason: Add content
Old 01-04-2019, 04:19 AM
  #38411  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,648
Received 65 Likes on 65 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Quikturn
Update on my 100. Itís a little worse than expected. The intake valve and intake tappet has rust on it. I think it was the victim of prolonged storage. I noticed when I first took it apart the top end was just flooded with oil. Now I know why.

Anyways, I realize the proper thing to do is to order replacement parts for the tappet, valves and maybe even springs since one was compressed for so long. The question is if I cleaned it up and removed the rust would that be good enough? For the valves I used 0000 steel wool and feels very smooth now. The tappets may need a bath in evap-o-rust.


My 82 parts looked similar and most cleaned up good. I would only replace the valves if there is pitting on the valve face. Same with the lifter faces and cam ramps. Small pits in the valve stems and lifter bodies won't cause issues. Check the cam lobe ramps carefully, especially the acsending side and top of the lobe, for rust pits or lifter dents and replace the cam if any are found in the shiny zone. The descending side can have very small pits and still work fine for years. Use a fine abrasive, no more course than 0000 steel wool for cleaning up the lifter faces and cam lobes.

I would replace the bearings for sure, as a cheap insurance measure. If rust pitting is found anywhere in an engine it can be found everywhere in an engine! At least to some degree.

In my case the cam had small lifter dents on the ascending faces of both lobes from improper lash adjustments and small pits as well. The lifters had uneven bevel wear at the bottom as well. Hopefully your parts list will be shorter than mine. Good luck friend

Old 01-04-2019, 05:12 AM
  #38412  
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,850
Received 93 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

Jim, the first 5% nitromethane has the biggest payoff with most engines. You do get a better, steady idle and transition in most cases from a little nitro. The older HC versions of the 150, 80m and perhaps 65 are least affected.
In the early 80s I ran homebrew zero nitro only in all of my engines, Saitos, OS, Enya and Super Tigre. I bought Castor in five gallon cans from American Shortening and Oil Company in Livonia MI. They were right next door to Sun Electric where I worked at the time. $20 to $25 bought 5 gallons!..
On the way home I picked up Methanol at the Gage Products railhead in Ferndale. Depending on the clerks mood it was fifty cents to a buck per gallon.

Made for a lot of cheap flying. Fuel under $2/gallon. I didn't start shimming the HC engines until I started using nitro again a few years later. Logghe Brother started selling nitro ( They built drag cars for many of the big names and stocked nitro and model engine glow fuel too) Still prefer with nitro over without! I use one blend for all of my engines, including the YS which are often rumored to need massive doses of nitro. (Don't believe that) 14% nitro and 14% oil with 2% of that oil being castor. No "gumming", ever. Clean running , very happy with that mix overall. Fuel is fuel, nothing magic or mandatory about store bought.I havent had to buy a jug of "Who Knows Whats In It" store bought in years. Shop around, it doesn't cost much to go first class!

Last edited by Jesse Open; 01-04-2019 at 05:23 AM.
Old 01-04-2019, 06:28 AM
  #38413  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 10,000
Received 97 Likes on 88 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Please don't fret Jim, Saitos run perfectly well sans nitro methane, our friends in Europe and other countries have Saitos that have never seen a drop of it.

That engine appears to have had a lot of moisture in it judging by the stains on the steel parts. And had not been run much either.
I have a couple gallons of FAI fuel, 0% Nitro 20% oil. Will see how well they run on it.
Old 01-04-2019, 07:54 AM
  #38414  
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,850
Received 93 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

Not like the sky is crashing down. "Alkydiggers" in Nashville TN will ship,for example a single gallon of 100% Nitromethane to Detroit area for$73.10. At 5% that gallon will make about 21 gallons of fuel. Cost of nitromethane, if my math works is a whopping $3.48/gallon. Buy the 4 gallon case and save even more.
But better order now, just in case it goes up again.
Old 01-04-2019, 07:54 AM
  #38415  
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,850
Received 93 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

You can buy nitromethane here for 58.40/ Gallon in 5 gallon pails, delivered.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Torco-Fuel-...v18:rk:31:pf:0

That comes out to about $2.78/ Gallon to treat yourself to 5% nitromethane or a whopping $5.56 for 10% .

Just hope the oil doesn't go up too!

Last edited by Jesse Open; 01-04-2019 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Addendum
Old 01-04-2019, 08:03 AM
  #38416  
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 933
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

For the sake of expediency, last night I cleaned the tappets and valves and reassembled the engine. After cleaning I gently went over the surfaces with the edge of a razor blade and can feel no pitting or anything. The engine is indeed very low time. Bearings are silky smooth, cam has no pitting, valve springs have no rust. Both push rods are straight and the same size. However, with proper adjustment the difference between valves remains. One more thing I found was a stuck piston ring which I freed up. Now the the compression is excellent and my 100 is ready for service.

Thanks to to everyone for their input. I will say these Saitos easily rust if not stored correctly.
Old 01-04-2019, 08:46 AM
  #38417  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 10,000
Received 97 Likes on 88 Posts
Default

Come to think of it, one of the 100's I have is the same way with the oddball adjusters. It could very well be a slight mistake on the drilling of the pivot point in the rocker tower where one sits slightly lower or higher than the other.
Old 01-04-2019, 12:04 PM
  #38418  
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 39 Posts
Default

Quikturn; However, with proper adjustment the difference between valves remains.
Originally Posted by acdii
Come to think of it, one of the 100's I have is the same way with the oddball adjusters. It could very well be a slight mistake on the drilling of the pivot point in the rocker tower where one sits slightly lower or higher than the other.
humm, now I am wondering how old these 2 engines are, I am wondering if those 2 engines have the older Cam Hummm

Pete; jim' i gave up waiting to hear about your calculater so i grabbed an old one of mine out of the desk draw and gave it a good thrashing on the desk top
Pete, I sure would be willing to bet that that calculator in the link is off on speed and thrust a bit, but like a tach that miss reads RPM by 117 RPM it still can be used to compare 2 props to each other, just something to use for a base to start with.

Gary, 8X16==128, I like those numbers, that's 2 years flying for me, maybe more, most likely more

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 01-04-2019 at 12:11 PM.
Old 01-04-2019, 12:11 PM
  #38419  
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 933
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by the Wasp
humm, now I am wondering how old these 2 engines are, I am wondering if those 2 engines have the older Cam Hummm
Jim
Cam humm???
Old 01-04-2019, 12:19 PM
  #38420  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 10,000
Received 97 Likes on 88 Posts
Default

I have easy acces to one of the 100's, if I remember I will pop a cover and take a look. The other one is locked up in my trailer.
Old 01-04-2019, 12:20 PM
  #38421  
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 39 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Quikturn

Cam humm???
yes, Saito had 2 different Cams that will fit the 82, 91 and 100,, both Cams will probably fit the 115 too

hold on for my edit, I will find a link and post it

Jim
Old 01-04-2019, 12:24 PM
  #38422  
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 5,433
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 39 Posts
Default

Cam Grinds,
here you go, scroll down to Post #13

edit ,oops, see also post #16

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow...l-robison.html

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 01-04-2019 at 12:45 PM.
Old 01-04-2019, 04:49 PM
  #38423  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,648
Received 65 Likes on 65 Posts
Default

When get my new cam for my 82 I'll compare it to my old one. My 82 is the A model (plastic back plate) so it may have the older cam. The new cam from Horizon should be the new hotter cam with the quieting ramps. Specifically, I'll check the diameters of the base circles as that's the only part of the cam that could cause a mismatch in lash adjusters.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 01-04-2019 at 04:56 PM.
Old 01-05-2019, 03:45 AM
  #38424  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default



120-S DP
This is an excerpt from Way Out Willie's, our nickname for him, cam discussion, he describes a 120-S like mine with curved pipe that inserts into the head with two O-rings.

This composite shows all the external differences between the old style big block engines and the "High Cam" versions. Also shown is the original "S" cam, just used for a short time in the original FA-120S. If you see a 120 with a curved intake pipe instead of the cast pipe it's an "S" model, the hot one. The later "S" 120s had the cast pipe and a normal cam, but still with the wide headed tappets so they were still a bit hotter than the early ones. No composite available.

I don't think that you'll find a difference in the 82 cams.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 01-05-2019 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Add content.
Old 01-05-2019, 04:03 AM
  #38425  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,648
Received 65 Likes on 65 Posts
Default Saito break in?

Dave, still breaking in Saitos per this post?

"First, take it out of the plane as Jim suggested,
The first 10 minutes is at 4,000 rpm or less with the throttle at 1/4 to 1/3rd open not full throttle.
Then, 10 minutes at 5,000 rpm, with HS needle at 3 turns open
10 minutes at 6,000 rpm
Peak HS needle temporarily,
Set LS needle for decent Idle and transition
Richen HS needle 300 rpm below peak
Now, 10 minutes at 7,000
Tweak LS needle for best idle and transition, go fly at slightly rich setting.

Running it at full throttle very rich will not contribute to the break in but will make it run stone cold and accomplish nothing."

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.