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Old 01-20-2019, 07:05 AM
  #38651  
Hobbsy
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Like Crunch, I have Saitos from the 1980's, ring wear is nearly non existent, I did replace a ring in a Saito FA 30, the tiny one, it was soft from day one, a new stock ring fixed it right up. I replaced the cylinder in my early high compression Saito 150 because I ham fisted the intake boss right off of the cylinder. I re-usd the original ring. From here the verdict is, don't worry about it.
Old 01-20-2019, 07:13 AM
  #38652  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Like Crunch, I have Saitos from the 1980's, ring wear is nearly non existent, I did replace a ring in a Saito FA 30, the tiny one, it was soft from day one, a new stock ring fixed it right up. I replaced the cylinder in my early high compression Saito 150 because I ham fisted the intake boss right off of the cylinder. I re-usd the original ring. From here the verdict is, don't worry about it.
Thanks Dave. What were the symptoms with the fa30 that clued you in on a ring problem? I'm seeing inconsistent idle rpm as well as inconsistent peak rpm.
Old 01-20-2019, 09:52 AM
  #38653  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Not sure how this applies. I was primarily interested in your experiences with saito ring wear.



Not always, I've seen rings spin in full size engines and I've seen them stay exactly where I put them when I built the engine. I think it depends on the concentricity of cylinder, piston and rings as well as many other factors including but not limited to harmonic vibes. As I mentioned earlier I have seen them spin and not spin in this saito 82 as well.

As with Gary, I am interested in your experiences with saito ring wear Dave.



Yes Pete, it takes a lot of pulling with the valves closed, even more now that the valves aren't leaking.

I wasn't really sure about the question. I was speaking to the placement of end gap which had come up at one point. I agree, in fact most of the time, rings pretty well bed in and stay put.
Not sure if you were asking about Re-seating used rings or how often they wear out.

The only time I ever actually wore out a ring was an old workhorse 45 that was my second Saito after the original open rockers Saito 30 from around 1979.

When Re- bedding in used rings I always break the surface glaze on the ring face with some micro mesh cloth or a piece of 600 Wet or Dry paper. Likewis e, break the glaze on the cylinder bore.

As I said, I like to follow full size practice, avoiding putting the end gap in the center of the thrust face.

May not matter on these toy engines but it can't hurt any.
Old 01-20-2019, 10:26 AM
  #38654  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Thanks Dave. What were the symptoms with the fa30 that clued you in on a ring problem? I'm seeing inconsistent idle rpm as well as inconsistent peak rpm.

It was simply that after the 50 minute break in the little 30 had soft/spongy compression. Most Saitos have compression that is nearly leak free, on most Saitos if you flip it slowly until it passes tdc you'd best get you fingers out of the way because the prop,is coming in a hurry. I was hesitant to start using full synthetic until I tried it and it had the same compression holding ability as the 80-20 syn/castor blend.
Old 01-20-2019, 10:45 AM
  #38655  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open



I wasn't really sure about the question. I was speaking to the placement of end gap which had come up at one point. I agree, in fact most of the time, rings pretty well bed in and stay put.
Not sure if you were asking about Re-seating used rings or how often they wear out.

The only time I ever actually wore out a ring was an old workhorse 45 that was my second Saito after the original open rockers Saito 30 from around 1979.

When Re- bedding in used rings I always break the surface glaze on the ring face with some micro mesh cloth or a piece of 600 Wet or Dry paper. Likewis e, break the glaze on the cylinder bore.

As I said, I like to follow full size practice, avoiding putting the end gap in the center of the thrust face.

May not matter on these toy engines but it can't hurt any.
Originally Posted by Hobbsy
It was simply that after the 50 minute break in the little 30 had soft/spongy compression. Most Saitos have compression that is nearly leak free, on most Saitos if you flip it slowly until it passes tdc you'd best get you fingers out of the way because the prop,is coming in a hurry. I was hesitant to start using full synthetic until I tried it and it had the same compression holding ability as the 80-20 syn/castor blend.
Thanks fellas, that's what I was looking for. You just can't beat experience!

Gary, I'll try some micromesh to roughen the ring a bit, worth a try. Generally I use white scotchbrite for the cylinder to remove any castor residue but that's about it for these aac engines. I'm a little apprehensive about messing with the plating in any way.

Dave, YES, SPONGY. That is how I would describe it. My other saitos hold excellent compression with finger pressure against the prop. This 82 leaks down fairing quickly.
Old 01-20-2019, 10:59 AM
  #38656  
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IDont worry.

That chrome is tough. The rings need a bit of "tooth" in the bore to bed in. Micro mesh is very effective on harder surfaces like chrome.

Make sure you wash very well after using Scothbrite.
It leaves a lot of dust behind.

I use the backflip to start
fingers are never in the way

Last edited by Jesse Open; 01-20-2019 at 11:01 AM.
Old 01-20-2019, 11:34 AM
  #38657  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open


Jim,

Take those Hog plans to Kinkos. They can shrink them to any size you want. I did that with a Fly Baby and it worked out well.
How about a Venture 60?
I have a new kit. A lot like the Four star 60 but sportier. Many folks do a clipped wing version and they always fly well. One of the nicest kits you will ever see too.


Gary, thanks !
the Venture looks good for me, it would be good for my HP 61RI, I looked it up on google images, and there's some bashing going on with that kit, I could move the cockpit back a bit and make it open, round the wing tips and rudder top, the fuse is a bit square but it would look good in the end.

I wouldn't mind reducing the Hog's plans, but I would have to scratch build it, I rather not trust myself that much LOL

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 01-20-2019 at 11:36 AM.
Old 01-20-2019, 08:48 PM
  #38658  
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I am still learning from you guys regarding Saito rebuilds. It is interesting about breaking the glaze on a used ring. Is there any advice on improving the valves and seats during a rebuild such as honing. How would this be accomplished?
Old 01-21-2019, 04:21 AM
  #38659  
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Best advice on the valves and seats, don't touch them or at most use a pencil eraser to clean them a little, very little. Pictured is the Saito 150 cylinder I busted, I guestimated about 50 hours on it. I did not glaze bust it nor did I use a new ring, It had it's original compression back in about 15 minutes, maybe sooner but that's when I checked it. I also used the entire original valve train.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 01-21-2019 at 04:23 AM. Reason: Add content
Old 01-21-2019, 09:15 AM
  #38660  
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Obviously the ring was not glazed. Not always the case. Yet, breaking any glaze remains a very good practice.

Old 01-21-2019, 09:25 AM
  #38661  
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I usually use a good red wine to deglaze with.
Old 01-21-2019, 10:38 AM
  #38662  
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Originally Posted by acdii
I usually use a good red wine to deglaze with.

So very true.
Old 01-21-2019, 12:19 PM
  #38663  
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Or just another cheap whine.
Same result.
Old 01-21-2019, 12:29 PM
  #38664  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
Gary, thanks !
the Venture looks good for me, it would be good for my HP 61RI, I looked it up on google images, and there's some bashing going on with that kit, I could move the cockpit back a bit and make it open, round the wing tips and rudder top, the fuse is a bit square but it would look good in the end.

I wouldn't mind reducing the Hog's plans, but I would have to scratch build it, I rather not trust myself that much LOL

Jim
Jim,

I have THREE Venture 60 kits! They were hard to get for some time so when they became available again I bought six of them..

All in original boxes. as delivered. Let me know if you want one. They are extremely high quality kits.
I haven't checked on availability from Bruce lately.


Last edited by Jesse Open; 01-21-2019 at 12:32 PM.
Old 01-21-2019, 02:02 PM
  #38665  
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Gary, I will PM you later tonight.

Hey Pete, got a good paint question for you, what do you think of PPG paint ??
most body shops use it here, and I see a lot of it at car shows.. I don't like it, and a lot of people here feel the same as I do about it, that a lot of PPG's pant looks like a plastic coating, even my friend that has been a body man since 1979 says the same, he said it just does not look good on older cars of the 60's and older. he said it looks like it is a thick plastic coating rather than pant, no depth to it he said..

or do you feel it is just being mixed wrong or sprayed wrong ??
what do you say ??

hey Pete, too bad Saito didn't build a 105 Inline three Cylinder, that would be the thing !!

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 01-21-2019 at 02:04 PM.
Old 01-21-2019, 10:26 PM
  #38666  
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That WOULD be good if saito made some 100cc and bigger inline twins and triples in the future jim...i asked the question here but it's a lack of interest in the subject or nobody knows and won't say.

What do i think of ppg 2k coatings?...they have been a long time paint supplier for harley (who?) and by and large harleys have a much better factory finish than way back when they first introduced the evo engine,which almost single handedly saved harley from the scrap bin.Although the major 2k factory paint systems like standox,glasurit,dulux and ppg etc have small advantages over each other in different areas it comes down to painter preference and price to an extent.I've been lucky and used all of these and many more.Jim when they say ppg looks like a plastic coating they are right and so do the others,they are mostly polyurethanes and that's a sprayable plastic.Do you remember the old car sales ads from the seventies where they talked about the good duco? (paintwork) that's a single pack solvent borne acrylic...another plastic.In fact you don't need to be a spraypainter to use duco,your toothbrush handles among other things are made from it.

As for a deep looking paintjob? that's up to the spraypainter and to a lesser extent the quality of the polishing tools and liquids.

ps jim most people argue that you should call them teeth brushes unless you live in a certain suburb over here...then it's ok to have a tooth brush

Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 01-21-2019 at 10:50 PM. Reason: tooth brushes
Old 01-21-2019, 10:33 PM
  #38667  
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Jim can you see any damn limey green in this pic of a v-rod fuel tank cover??
Old 01-21-2019, 11:04 PM
  #38668  
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Originally Posted by Rudolph Hart
That WOULD be good if saito made some 100cc and bigger inline twins and triples in the future jim...i asked the question here but it's a lack of interest in the subject or nobody knows and won't say.

What do i think of ppg 2k coatings?...they have been a long time paint supplier for harley (who?) and by and large harleys have a much better factory finish than way back when they first introduced the evo engine,which almost single handedly saved harley from the scrap bin.Although the major 2k factory paint systems like standox,glasurit,dulux and ppg etc have small advantages over each other in different areas it comes down to painter preference and price to an extent.I've been lucky and used all of these and many more.Jim when they say ppg looks like a plastic coating they are right and so do the others,they are mostly polyurethanes and that's a sprayable plastic.Do you remember the old car sales ads from the seventies where they talked about the good duco? (paintwork) that's a single pack solvent borne acrylic...another plastic.In fact you don't need to be a spraypainter to use duco,your toothbrush handles among other things are made from it.

As for a deep looking paintjob? that's up to the spraypainter and to a lesser extent the quality of the polishing tools and liquids.

ps jim most people argue that you should call them teeth brushes unless you live in a certain suburb over here...then it's ok to have a tooth brush
LOL LOL yes yes we in the USA too have an area as such, it's a hilly area and many there are named Billy

thanks for the paint info !!
Jim
Old 01-21-2019, 11:13 PM
  #38669  
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geezz Pete, do you fly as good as you paint , that Harley tank is so nice,
but I wouldn't want my Harley pained white if I owned one, each his own I guess

Jim
Old 01-22-2019, 04:07 AM
  #38670  
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BTE - Venture 60

Current status of the Venture 60. It's an easy build and great flyer, I flew both of mine with Saito 72's.
Old 01-22-2019, 04:30 AM
  #38671  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
BTE - Venture 60

Current status of the Venture 60. It's an easy build and great flyer, I flew both of mine with Saito 72's.
Expensive with all needed assesories and graphics. My instructor had one, great flyer.
Old 01-22-2019, 04:32 AM
  #38672  
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Yessir, Fine planes and high quality kits. Both of mine are still flying but with other folks right now. One has the same Saito .82 I originally had on it, the other owner has installed a YS .63.
I intend to build another soon but it will have the YS .63 on board.
I should have two kits to spare for quite a while Jim so just let me know. The project you mentioned sounds great
Old 01-22-2019, 09:41 AM
  #38673  
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Still in package


Adapter


Two aligned, one to go.


Finished at last.
The Keleo ring is installed, only a 3 hour job. Logic kinda said to install the adapters on the engine first. I could only get one pipe to align. I removed everything and installed the adapters onto the pipes, then two,of them would align. I ended up removing the lower left/#3 cylinder and then laboriously bolting it back down while simultaneously screwing the 3rd adapter into engine as it freed up with the 3rd pipe loosely screwed in to it. I had no such problem with the 90 R-3.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 01-22-2019 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Add content
Old 01-22-2019, 09:48 AM
  #38674  
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Yeah,

Quite a treat, fitting the bugger isn't it!

Don't fret, it gets easier after you do it a few times. The smaller engines may be worse than the big ones.
Looks swell. They sound great too .Videos can't do the sound justice. In person and up close is the way.
Old 01-22-2019, 10:00 AM
  #38675  
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Yes sir, the 90 R-3 I had was a piece of cake compared to this one.

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