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02-26-2019, 07:58 AM
I use the pump a bit differently. Rather than two holes in the backplate, I put the intake check in one hole and a barb with a length of hose in the other, plug the open hose end with a removable stopper. The outlet valve goes in my usual spot, up front, in the cam area, between the bearings. This allows for fresh air intake at the rear and oil, and other case vapors goes to the bearings, cam lifters and out the exhale valve. Contrary to what the author in the other article says, after oiling is not at all difficult. Remove the hose stopper, lower the nose and pump the ARO in through the hose end.. Easy as it gets. There are variations that can work well. The case internals on these positive vented engines remain remarkably clean.
73
73
02-26-2019, 08:10 AM
I thought the same thing as well unless the engine is cowled in. Then adding AFO would be difficult.
I dont inderstand how the pump unit valve helps prevent engine blow by.
I dont inderstand how the pump unit valve helps prevent engine blow by.
02-26-2019, 08:21 AM
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Here’s the link from Saito-engines.info about the pump unit as well as regulators. An interesting read.
Pumps
Pumps
Saito 2.20 large carb option kit available @ $114.00, the large carb worked much better with a Cline regulator and exhaust pressure.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 02-26-2019 at 08:26 AM. Reason: Add content
02-26-2019, 08:42 AM
02-26-2019, 08:45 AM
"The Saito-220 that is sold in Japan and Europe comes with the Saito ‘pump, and the engine is sold under the name “Saito-220 Zeus”. In the US the Saito-220 that is sold does not have the ‘Zeus’ label and does not come with the Saito ‘pump’ and is sold with the same carb as the Saito-180. If you have the US version it is possible to buy the pump, backplate, and larger carb as separate items to modify your engine to be the same as the version sold in Japan; however some users have reported difficulties setting up this engine with the Saito pump... this does not imply there is a problem with the pump, but the additional adjustments can be challenging for users.."
What plane was that engine in?
Last edited by Jesse Open; 02-26-2019 at 08:48 AM.
02-26-2019, 11:20 AM
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my Son's Magnum 180 4St would run very rich with a full tank of fuel, so rich it would not idle down to what was exceptable, where it should have idled (no pump).. and when the tank was low the engine would idle low and very well, so this told me the engine WAS getting to much fuel when the tank was full.
so I felt a regulator would have fixed the problem. yet while I was reading many posts where many people loved their regulators other people that had been in the hobby a long time was telling me the regulator would not have help, yet they never gave me a reason why..
in my mind a regulator is a regulator and would only give the Carb the correct and constant amount of fuel the engine needed to idle correctly, meaning the Carb would never receive to much fuel,,,, meaning the Carb would be regulated..
BTW, that Magnum is long gone now
Quikturn, thank you for posting that Saito Regulator link, I have one of the latest Perry pumps, so I will have to read that info
Jim
Saito Engines, their the Ticket
so I felt a regulator would have fixed the problem. yet while I was reading many posts where many people loved their regulators other people that had been in the hobby a long time was telling me the regulator would not have help, yet they never gave me a reason why..
in my mind a regulator is a regulator and would only give the Carb the correct and constant amount of fuel the engine needed to idle correctly, meaning the Carb would never receive to much fuel,,,, meaning the Carb would be regulated..
BTW, that Magnum is long gone now
Quikturn, thank you for posting that Saito Regulator link, I have one of the latest Perry pumps, so I will have to read that info
Jim
Saito Engines, their the Ticket
Last edited by the Wasp; 02-26-2019 at 11:28 AM.
02-26-2019, 01:03 PM
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Jim, some guys got frustrated because they could not enrich the mixture enough to lose 500 rpm, but as you stated, if the engine doesn't demand it the regulator won't provide it. When using the regulator you don't need the richer mixture anyway, the mixture does not change as the fuel level changes. A regulator will fix a high tank position a Perry will not.
The 2.20 was for a H9 Giant Cessna 182, a guy offered me 50% more than I had paid for the Cessna, I sold it to him and then Adrian at CHI bought the 2.20. It was a really nice engine. It is the 2.20 shown on the CH Ignition website.
The 2.20 was for a H9 Giant Cessna 182, a guy offered me 50% more than I had paid for the Cessna, I sold it to him and then Adrian at CHI bought the 2.20. It was a really nice engine. It is the 2.20 shown on the CH Ignition website.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 02-26-2019 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Add content
02-27-2019, 12:16 AM
Prime it and flick THAT prop...the angels start singin
From the article:
"The Saito-220 that is sold in Japan and Europe comes with the Saito ‘pump, and the engine is sold under the name “Saito-220 Zeus”. In the US the Saito-220 that is sold does not have the ‘Zeus’ label and does not come with the Saito ‘pump’ and is sold with the same carb as the Saito-180. If you have the US version it is possible to buy the pump, backplate, and larger carb as separate items to modify your engine to be the same as the version sold in Japan; however some users have reported difficulties setting up this engine with the Saito pump... this does not imply there is a problem with the pump, but the additional adjustments can be challenging for users.."
What plane was that engine in?
"The Saito-220 that is sold in Japan and Europe comes with the Saito ‘pump, and the engine is sold under the name “Saito-220 Zeus”. In the US the Saito-220 that is sold does not have the ‘Zeus’ label and does not come with the Saito ‘pump’ and is sold with the same carb as the Saito-180. If you have the US version it is possible to buy the pump, backplate, and larger carb as separate items to modify your engine to be the same as the version sold in Japan; however some users have reported difficulties setting up this engine with the Saito pump... this does not imply there is a problem with the pump, but the additional adjustments can be challenging for users.."
What plane was that engine in?
Jim i read your post about the fa180 being to rich at idle with a full tank,that problem gets bigger if the saito single is inverted,it's easier to drown a plug.Dave is going to make your life a lot more rewarding if you follow his advice and fit a cline demand regulator "the best thing since sliced bread" is often overused,but not in this case,especially when the ideal fuel tank height is hard to achieve without major surgery.
ps jim you still need to tune the engine well before you fit the cline demand (fuel) regulator.Dave's done it and well up on tuning tips friend.
02-27-2019, 03:31 AM
Well i’m with you on this one Dave knows his stuff.
The only trouble I’m haveing with all this is that i must live under a different star. I have had great luck with my big Saito’s. Like the 150,180,and the 180hc. And the 180hc’s are the only ones on CH ignition, and keep in mind i fly the crap out of my stuff, like the pattern and some maneuvers I cannot explain lol.
The only thing i can come up with is i keep the center line of the tank inline with the center line of the carb, plus keep the fuel line to the carb as short as possible.
With Hobbsy and Sr.telamasters and Rudalphs help I should be able to keep these big Saito’s running great for ever.
The only trouble I’m haveing with all this is that i must live under a different star. I have had great luck with my big Saito’s. Like the 150,180,and the 180hc. And the 180hc’s are the only ones on CH ignition, and keep in mind i fly the crap out of my stuff, like the pattern and some maneuvers I cannot explain lol.
The only thing i can come up with is i keep the center line of the tank inline with the center line of the carb, plus keep the fuel line to the carb as short as possible.
With Hobbsy and Sr.telamasters and Rudalphs help I should be able to keep these big Saito’s running great for ever.
02-27-2019, 03:36 AM
Prime it and flick THAT prop...the angels start singin
Can you list the plus and minus things about adding a fuel pump to our small rc saito engines.Even with violent aerobatics the large saito singles i have don't suffer for lack of fuel.My fa220 is called a zues over here and i'm told it comes with the large carb,i've never measured it will see if i can post a pic.
Jim i read your post about the fa180 being to rich at idle with a full tank,that problem gets bigger if the saito single is inverted,it's easier to drown a plug.Dave is going to make your life a lot more rewarding if you follow his advice and fit a cline demand regulator "the best thing since sliced bread" is often overused,but not in this case,especially when the ideal fuel tank height is hard to achieve without major surgery.
ps jim you still need to tune the engine well before you fit the cline demand (fuel) regulator.Dave's done it and well up on tuning tips friend.
Why in the world are you asking me that question? Ask someone who resorts to pumps and regulators with Saito, I do not.
I have been flying Saito since 1979 and not once needed a fuel pump nor Cline regulator. 99.9% plus Saito small engines are running just fine without the Cline clutter. Done quite well without them, thanks. On two inverted installations I simply made an aluminum spacer to fit between the carb body and the intake tube. That easily placed the carb nearer the tank centerline and avoided the need for a "regulator" of any kind. Simple solutions are often my favorites.
The part you presented was a QUOTE from another website.linked by Quickturn. It was quoted in response to Dave's earlier comment about the article:
Hobbsy quote:
" That article fails to mention that the US 2.20 versions had a large carb option that came with a pump: https://www.horizonhobby.com/fuel-pu...-ae-sai220a150 "
The article, does in fact make that mention.
When I want a pumped system, I use YS engines every time.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 02-27-2019 at 03:52 AM.
02-27-2019, 04:10 AM
Well gee wizz man lighten up. Jesse
some people ask questions because they don’t know. The olnly stupid question is one that was never asked. Even though I understand a lot about mechanics in general, i still ask questions.
I myself, have not used pumps on anything and the couple YS i had were a pain in the Butt, so i stick with Satio.
some people ask questions because they don’t know. The olnly stupid question is one that was never asked. Even though I understand a lot about mechanics in general, i still ask questions.
I myself, have not used pumps on anything and the couple YS i had were a pain in the Butt, so i stick with Satio.
02-27-2019, 04:21 AM
Well , Captain, lighten up yourself. There was nothing mean spirited in my reply. I hope he took it as intended.
Seemed he took it that I was advocating the use of fuel pumps with Saito.
No need to support a stance I had never taken.. I chose to clarify for him and others.
He does know. No harm done .
Perhaps you need to ask more questions about YS
There was nothing mean spirited in my reply. I hope he took it as intended.Seemed he took it that I was advocating the use of fuel pumps with Saito.
No need to support a stance I had never taken.. I chose to clarify for him and others.
He does know. No harm done .
Perhaps you need to ask more questions about YS
Last edited by Jesse Open; 02-27-2019 at 04:24 AM.
02-27-2019, 04:36 AM
Sorry man. I hate text, there’s no body language to see what you’re intendimg. It look like you were being defensive and annoyed with a question.
And yes maybe, I need to ask more questions about YS but i have said this before that there to complicated for me and i have had nothing but trouble running them. So i just stick with good old Saito.
And yes maybe, I need to ask more questions about YS but i have said this before that there to complicated for me and i have had nothing but trouble running them. So i just stick with good old Saito.
02-27-2019, 04:40 AM
Sorry man. I hate text, there’s no body language to see what you’re intendimg. It look like you were being defensive and annoyed with a question.
And yes maybe, I need to ask more questions about YS but i have said this before that there to complicated for me and i have had nothing but trouble running them. So i just stick with good old Saito.
And yes maybe, I need to ask more questions about YS but i have said this before that there to complicated for me and i have had nothing but trouble running them. So i just stick with good old Saito.
Not at all annoyed. Clarity was all I was after.
02-27-2019, 04:45 AM
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The Cline and Iron Bay regulators are far more reliable than the, sometimes it runs right, YS system.
On the more positive side of things, I installed a new spray bar and barrel locating screw in the 180 carb yesterday. I had ordered them for the original carb. I'll run the 180 in a day or two.
Pete, I am at a serious disadvantage here, I haven't done any of these things thousands of times nor did I start 10 years before I was born..
On the more positive side of things, I installed a new spray bar and barrel locating screw in the 180 carb yesterday. I had ordered them for the original carb. I'll run the 180 in a day or two.
Pete, I am at a serious disadvantage here, I haven't done any of these things thousands of times nor did I start 10 years before I was born.
.
02-27-2019, 05:24 AM
I can't comment on the Iron Bay or Cline systems, never needed one.
However, some of us have had nowhere near the problems with many years of YS use, than you have had with a few
02-27-2019, 06:03 AM
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Well i’m with you on this one Dave knows his stuff.
The only trouble I’m haveing with all this is that i must live under a different star. I have had great luck with my big Saito’s. Like the 150,180,and the 180hc. And the 180hc’s are the only ones on CH ignition, and keep in mind i fly the crap out of my stuff, like the pattern and some maneuvers I cannot explain lol.
The only thing i can come up with is i keep the center line of the tank inline with the center line of the carb, plus keep the fuel line to the carb as short as possible.
With Hobbsy and Sr.telamasters and Rudalphs help I should be able to keep these big Saito’s running great for ever.
The only trouble I’m haveing with all this is that i must live under a different star. I have had great luck with my big Saito’s. Like the 150,180,and the 180hc. And the 180hc’s are the only ones on CH ignition, and keep in mind i fly the crap out of my stuff, like the pattern and some maneuvers I cannot explain lol.
The only thing i can come up with is i keep the center line of the tank inline with the center line of the carb, plus keep the fuel line to the carb as short as possible.
With Hobbsy and Sr.telamasters and Rudalphs help I should be able to keep these big Saito’s running great for ever.
PS, I heard that you're receiving a Saito 120-s DP today. Let us know if this is true.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 02-27-2019 at 06:07 AM.
02-27-2019, 06:46 AM
02-27-2019, 06:52 AM
One of them is destined for a P-51 if I ever get back to working on planes, the other is on a test stand I slapped together, but never actually got around to testing it. I have more engines than planes at the moment. I kind of lost interest in planes since last year, and lack of time to fly, the stupid fAA rulings, and all the other crap going on. If someone were to offer me $10K for my trailer full of planes I would seriously consider it, even though there is closer to $18K in there.