Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-23-2006, 02:46 PM
  #3901  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Scratch:

When Morgan Fuels (maker of Omega) agrees to buy all the bearings in my engines I might listen to the “No after run oil” bull. Until then I’ll keep using ARO and have my bearings give me long life.

You might possibly get away with no ARO in a two stroke, but not in a Saito.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 03:10 PM
  #3902  
XJet
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 3,848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: William Robison
You might possibly get away with no ARO in a two stroke, but not in a Saito.
You're right there Bill -- I never use ARO in my 2-strokes and, despite being hangared in an uninsulated iron building during mid-winter at temperatures that drop well below freezing, I've never had a single corrosion problem.

I don't run them dry at the end of the day either -- just hit the engine-kill button on the transmitter, drain the tank and hang em up.

Of course I *do* run castor in my oil (at least 5% of the total fuel volume) and only 5% nitro.

My 4-strokes however, *always* get a good dose of ARO.
Old 07-23-2006, 03:31 PM
  #3903  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

XJ:

Did yuo get your parts yet?

Let me know, they're due.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 05:03 PM
  #3904  
JPal101
Senior Member
My Feedback: (32)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks Bill for the reply, but what about the highspeed setting of only about 1 1/2 turns outis that acceptable? and less for the 9000 plus run
Old 07-23-2006, 07:24 PM
  #3905  
Thunderchild
Senior Member
 
Thunderchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ocean Reef WA, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Another for Professor Bill Robison

A friend just installed a new 125 in his Ultimate Bipe. It flies beautifully. He asked me to have a listen to it on the ground after about the third flight (from new). It has a definite whine coming from the cam gear area. I gave him some of my fuel with 5% castor (he was running pure synth) and this did quietn it down a bit, but the noise is stilll present. Most noticeable when you goose the throttle.

Is this noise normal for the 125?

Cheers,

TC
Old 07-23-2006, 08:07 PM
  #3906  
solafein
Senior Member
 
solafein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hemet, CA
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Artisian:

Theoretically, the 220 will swing a 19X8 at 8100 rpm. Those figures produce 24.2 lbs of static thrust with a Zinger wooden prop. The Great Planes Patty Wagstaff Extra is a 1.60 sized plane that has an advertised all up weight of 14 lbs. Murphy's Law and the Uncertainty Principal co-exist to give you a realistic thrust around 21 lbs, at sea level, and a AUW of around 15lbs. Some would say that you would be wasting 6 lbs of thrust. I say that a APC will give you 25.65, or 23 in the real world, much closer to two to one, which is almost enough. With a top speed of 61 mph you may be going a little fast for a 3D plane, but a 23X4 with the same horsepower draw will produce 50 lbs of thrust with a top speed of 30 MPH.



I believe the simple answer is that they should go together beautifully with proper prop choices. A 20X6 Zinger will, on paper only, give you 29.71 lbs of thrust and 46 mph.
Old 07-23-2006, 08:07 PM
  #3907  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Jpal:

The needle settings recommended are just a place to start. If your engine gets the proper mixture at 1½ turns open then go with it. Do check the high speed with the tank near empty and the nose pointed up – if all is well at 1½ turns fly and enjoy.

TC:

I’ll bet your buddy’s FA-125 engine doesn’t have the standard Saito “Click” when he turns the crank either. Most likely the whine is the timing gears set too tight. He can ignore it and hope it will go away (it wont for a long time), he can pull the cam out and put a thicker gasket on the cam box, or take it back to the source and have Saito fix it under warranty. Shouldn’t have a whine at all.

It is also possible that he has a bad bearing. Again, a warranty repair.

But whatever, he should have some castor oil in his fuel. I’m sure you’ve already told him.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 08:12 PM
  #3908  
JPal101
Senior Member
My Feedback: (32)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks Bill, One more question does anyone know the maximum fuel line length the 125 will tolerate without assistance from a regulator or pump. I would like to move my tank more towards the CG if possible.
Old 07-23-2006, 08:25 PM
  #3909  
Thunderchild
Senior Member
 
Thunderchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ocean Reef WA, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: William Robison

Jpal:

The needle settings recommended are just a place to start. If your engine gets the proper mixture at 1½ turns open then go with it. Do check the high speed with the tank near empty and the nose pointed up – if all is well at 1½ turns fly and enjoy.

TC:

I’ll bet your buddy’s FA-125 engine doesn’t have the standard Saito “Click” when he turns the crank either. Most likely the whine is the timing gears set too tight. He can ignore it and hope it will go away (it wont for a long time), he can pull the cam out and put a thicker gasket on the cam box, or take it back to the source and have Saito fix it under warranty. Shouldn’t have a whine at all.

It is also possible that he has a bad bearing. Again, a warranty repair.

But whatever, he should have some castor oil in his fuel. I’m sure you’ve already told him.

Bill.
Thanks Bill,

I relayed the info (the philistine doesn't have web access) and he is going to go with the gasket thickness first. He also just told me it wasn't doing it right out of the box, but started after the first few flights. Bearing maybe? It definitely quitened down with the change to my fuel with castor added.

Yeah, he got the mesage loud and clear on the castor. I also printed off your notes and presented him and another couple of other newbie Saito owners with Professor Robison's Pearls of Saito Wisdom in booklet form.

Re warranty repairs: Our problem in the antipodes is that we are a long way from anywhere and shipping off for warranty takes forever. As this deprives you of the motor and may severly crimp flying activities, it is an absolute last resort. Most guys just bite the bullet and do the repairs/workarounds themselves.

Thanks again - I'll let you know how he goes.

TC [8D]
Old 07-23-2006, 08:29 PM
  #3910  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

JPal:

Bad idea. Moving the tank back can introduce far worse problems than the changing CG with fuel exhaustion. Just keep the tank at the firewall.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 08:36 PM
  #3911  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

TC:

If it were the gear lash it should have been there on first running. Coming in gradually it most likely is the rear bearing, but could be the front. A bearing should also give the crank a "Grindy" feel when you turn it.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 08:42 PM
  #3912  
Thunderchild
Senior Member
 
Thunderchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ocean Reef WA, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks Bill,

Will forward your thoughts to the owner.

TC
Old 07-23-2006, 09:10 PM
  #3913  
RcShacknet
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: .Vic, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill,

I have a new 72 and 82a that im breaking in, 5-10 flights so far.
How much waste should be expelled from the exaust? (browny/black gew)
My planes are covered in excessive waste more than my 2 strokes.
I have started to lean them out, a good leaning, but still the waste?
Also how much of a performace increase can I expect after 20 flights from the new motors?

RcShacknet
Old 07-23-2006, 10:08 PM
  #3914  
JettPilot
My Feedback: (6)
 
JettPilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Islamorada, FL
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dr. William,

Will my Saito .56 run well from start to end with a 16 ounce tank at the firewall without a pump ? I want optimum RPM, especially when the tank is full and the airplane is the heaviest I need more power. I dont want to have to run excessively rich to compensate for running the tank down... Will the saito do this without a fuel pump, or should I just bite the bullet and get the Cline regulator ?

Old 07-23-2006, 10:27 PM
  #3915  
JPal101
Senior Member
My Feedback: (32)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill, I am very aware of the ill effects of a tail heavy plane. As they say a nose heavy plane flys like a slug but a tail heavy plane flies only once. The practice of moving the tank towards the CG is quite common in pattern flying to give consistent control response throughout the flying sequence. I have a couple of planes that have this modification, the trick is to rebalance around the recommended CG after the shift is made. I always used YS for my pattern planes but thought I would try the Saito because it is much less complicated and just as reliable, so I refer back to my original question, do you know how long I can make the fuel lines without the need of assistance to get the fuel to the engine at the proper pressure?
Old 07-23-2006, 10:27 PM
  #3916  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Shack:

A new Saito engine, fresh out of the box or from overhaul, is a very messy baby. It will remain so until you start bringing the LS leaner toward its final adjustment. With ½ hour on the engine you can start leaning it, you’ll probably have at least two, and more likely three hours on the engine when it’s finally all settled in.

The brown liquid in the exhaust wont stop, that’s the oil. But it should tend toward clear as the engine gets more time. The black should tail off to nothing by the time you have an hour on it.

Even after it’s completely dialed in, the Saito will still be a little messy. To stop the last part (Here we go again) get an intake stack (SAI50GK93) and the Bru-Line fine mesh air filter (BRU202) from Horizon, their part numbers in parentheses.

JP:

A little more information, please. First, why do you want to fly a FA-56 powered plane for 45 minutes without landing?

If your plan is mostly level flight you shouldn’t have any problem, you can set the initial mixture leaner than you would for aerobatics, and the engine should pull all the fuel with no problem. You should do some test flights with only four to six ounces fuel on board to verify though.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 10:48 PM
  #3917  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

JPal:

… so I refer back to my original question, do you know how long I can make the fuel lines without the need of assistance to get the fuel to the engine at the proper pressure?
An honest question deserves an honest answer. I just don’t know.

Get a fairly long board, cut a notch in one end to mount the engine, then tie the tank to the board at the distance it will need to be in the plane. Start the engine, set it for running mixture, then point the board straight up. Play with the throttle. Run it a couple minutes at full, then idle it, back to mid throttle, just keep going up and down. If it runs the tank out you’re fine. Otherwise go to “Plan B.”

Do please let us know how it comes out.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 11:01 PM
  #3918  
RVM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,977
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I did this with my .91 and if I remember correctly I was able to put the tank about 6"-9" behind the motor without any problems. The engine was also set very rich, as I was still breaking the engine in. If I were you, JPal101, I would just go ahead and get a regulator, either a Cline or an Iron Bay, and simply not worry about it. I have the Iron Bay myself.




ORIGINAL: William Robison

JPal:

… so I refer back to my original question, do you know how long I can make the fuel lines without the need of assistance to get the fuel to the engine at the proper pressure?
An honest question deserves an honest answer. I just don’t know.

Get a fairly long board, cut a notch in one end to mount the engine, then tie the tank to the board at the distance it will need to be in the plane. Start the engine, set it for running mixture, then point the board straight up. Play with the throttle. Run it a couple minutes at full, then idle it, back to mid throttle, just keep going up and down. If it runs the tank out you’re fine. Otherwise go to “Plan B.”

Do please let us know how it comes out.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 11:18 PM
  #3919  
RcShacknet
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: .Vic, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Would you lose any performance with the air filter?
One other question, How important is it to use a fuel filter between the carb and the tank.?

Rc
Old 07-23-2006, 11:34 PM
  #3920  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Shack:

I've never noticed any loss in performance, I think BLW posted once that he lost 100-200 rpm with the filter.

By not spraying the fuel out of the carb you will have to lean the mixture, it's not uncommon to get 20% more flight time with just this simple addition, some have reported more than 30% increase.

Bill.
Old 07-23-2006, 11:44 PM
  #3921  
solafein
Senior Member
 
solafein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hemet, CA
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill, I am very aware of the ill effects of a tail heavy plane. As they say a nose heavy plane flys like a slug but a tail heavy plane flies only once. The practice of moving the tank towards the CG is quite common in pattern flying to give consistent control response throughout the flying sequence. I have a couple of planes that have this modification, the trick is to rebalance around the recommended CG after the shift is made. I always used YS for my pattern planes but thought I would try the Saito because it is much less complicated and just as reliable, so I refer back to my original question, do you know how long I can make the fuel lines without the need of assistance to get the fuel to the engine at the proper pressure?
Dude, do what the heli guys do and run a second tank.

A gentleman at my field does this with all his planes. He runs the main tank at the CG and then puts a small, 2 or 4 oz., tank at the firewall. No problems. Vent goes to main tank, feed from main tank goes to "booster" tank, booster tank goes to carby.
Old 07-24-2006, 12:29 AM
  #3922  
XJet
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 3,848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: William Robison
Did yuo get your parts yet?

Let me know, they're due.
I was late home today and found a little card from the postman saying there was a registered item awaiting my collection at the post office -- I suspect that's them.

A million thanks, now I'll be ready to take on terra-firma again next weekend :-)
Old 07-24-2006, 12:30 AM
  #3923  
XJet
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 3,848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: solafein
Dude, do what the heli guys do and run a second tank.

A gentleman at my field does this with all his planes. He runs the main tank at the CG and then puts a small, 2 or 4 oz., tank at the firewall. No problems. Vent goes to main tank, feed from main tank goes to "booster" tank, booster tank goes to carby.
Running a hopper tank (like the heli guys do) won't change the fuel-head your motor sees -- that's not why the heli-guys run them either.
Old 07-24-2006, 05:54 AM
  #3924  
JPal101
Senior Member
My Feedback: (32)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks everyone for your reply, let you know how it works out
Old 07-24-2006, 09:29 AM
  #3925  
Mokken
My Feedback: (63)
 
Mokken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bethlehem, GA
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I have a Saito 182TD Dual plugs in a H9 Cessna 182. The motor was tuned and was running fine for three flights yesturday then on the 4th after taking off I noticed it was running very rich. I've not change anything, no settings. I'm wondering what could be causing the problem and where to start? I'm running onboard glow, I believe the motor has the original plugs and I'm running 30% Heli, which I plan to change to 15% once I've used up my current supply.

Thanks,

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.