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Old 04-04-2019, 11:16 AM
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So, trying to find an engine test stand I can use for these big engines. PSP makes a nice one, but has none for sale. Any others, or plans to make one?
Old 04-04-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Welcome K, we have quite the diverse group as you'll see from viewing our varied and differing opinions
I'm Dave, I keep castor far from my engines and get busted almost daily for it. Avid motorcyclist.
Rudolph is Pete,RC guy and motorcyclist, a very talented builder and motorcycle and auto painter.
Captain Crunch is Mike, flooring guy and RC pilot
Jesse is Gary, man of many talents, RC pilot and builder, great all around machinist, a motorcyclist also
Jim is Jim I don't his vocation, he is an RC builder and flyer
GlowGeek, I'm short on his facts
ACDC, we have trade engines with each other

All of us rebuild engines and compare notes here.

Saito 130 before


Saito 130 after
Nice job on the rebuild Hobbsy. I may one day yet buy a Saito multi engine. They’re just so darn expensive.
Old 04-04-2019, 11:25 AM
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The difference in compression ratio for long vs short glow plugs is negligible in any engine over .40 cuin imo. Virtually unmeasureable. That said, detonation problems could arise using hot glow plugs with high nitro fuel in older high compression saitos if the last glow plug thread inside the combustion chamber is not filled by the glow plug. The edges of last unused thread could get very hot and light the fuel mixture prematurely. It's not any kind of an issue with saito's newer offerings having 10.5:1 or less cr imo; especially when running 20% nitro or less.
Old 04-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE=acdii;12515804]So, trying to find an engine test stand I can use for these big engines. PSP makes a nice one, but has none for sale. Any others, or plans to make one?[/QUOTE]
Ron Sexton ( [email protected] ) makes a real nice stand. I have his large one seen these pictures. It will handle a .09 glow up to the big radials and the big gas engines. Also here is a link of a video with the his stands in use.






[

Last edited by FlyerInOKC; 04-04-2019 at 11:35 AM.
Old 04-04-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by acdii
So, trying to find an engine test stand I can use for these big engines. PSP makes a nice one, but has none for sale. Any others, or plans to make one?
I was lucky to find a PSP test stand on eBay. You can watch there or place a want ad for one.

Or get one of these.

Old 04-04-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Here are the first round of Saito 50 numbers: Each number arrived at three times by reducing rpm by 100 rich then re-peaking.

Saito 50 GK
Prop===APC 12x6
Fuel===Wildcat 10% with 18% full syn.
Plug===Fox Miracle
Muffler=Stock cast, not the revised version but same internals.
Turbo Header
RPM stock muffler======9,240
RPM with Turbo Header==9,390
Idle=================1,770

The poit, poit, poit, is alive and well at idle with the Turbo Header.
Thanks for that Dave. Good to know the Turbo Header Muffler is doing its job. I wonder if drilling out the saito muffler baffle cone holes would do the same thing.
Old 04-04-2019, 12:32 PM
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I have three of the six holes enlarged by 1/16", does not change anything, one needs be careful or it will reduce tank pressure. The Turbo Headers will operate a Cline or Iron Bay regulator.
Old 04-04-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I have three of the six holes enlarged by 1/16", does not change anything, one needs be careful or it will reduce tank pressure. The Turbo Headers will operate a Cline or Iron Bay regulator.
I must say, a 150 rpm gain on your 50 is noteworthy. How many psi does it take to operate a regulator?
Old 04-04-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I wonder if drilling out the saito muffler baffle cone holes would do the same thing.
Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I have three of the six holes enlarged by 1/16", does not change anything, one needs be careful or it will reduce tank pressure. The Turbo Headers will operate a Cline or Iron Bay regulator.
Run a 5/16" drill bit up the center of the baffle cone and I'll bet you would see a difference in RPM. Still plenty of tank pressure too.
Old 04-04-2019, 04:26 PM
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Default Saito FA82 CR Mod

Ok fellas, run a few more tanks of fuel through the pig and the ring is fully seated now. Holds finger pressure against the compression stroke for days and much snappier flipping over the compression stroke than stock. Still only 9350 rpm peak with an apc 14x6. 150 rpm gain from stock.. Seems to run cooler than before. Able to idle at 1825 reliably (down 75 rpm from stock) and transition is snappier than stock. No signs of detonation running an OS F and 15% nitro/17% oil. No prop spitting yet.

As I understand it power gain from a cr increase is greater when the starting cr is low. As you move up in cr any increase in cr beyond that has diminished increase in power output. In addition the fueling system, exhaust and cam profile become more critical to allow the higher cr power gains to be realized.

Having shaved down the deck .018" it's at 10.5:1 cr now which really isn't that high for an alcohol fueled engine. I'm thinking of shaving off another .008" and moving up to 11.46:1. Why not? If it doesn't respond well I can shim the cylinder back up, right?
Old 04-04-2019, 04:35 PM
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Absolutely!
Cost about $2
Here is a stealthy home brew lookalike tailpiece for the big block Saito. Machine from round stock with a longer but bigger bore outlet.








Last edited by Jesse Open; 04-04-2019 at 04:39 PM.
Old 04-04-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
QUOTE=acdii;12515804]So, trying to find an engine test stand I can use for these big engines. PSP makes a nice one, but has none for sale. Any others, or plans to make one?
Ron Sexton ( [email protected] ) makes a real nice stand. I have his large one seen these pictures. It will handle a .09 glow up to the big radials and the big gas engines. Also here is a link of a video with the his stands in use.






[[/QUOTE]

I saw that and realized other than the T rails and corner brackets I have some Baltic Birch that I have laying around collecting dust that would work perfect to make one. I need up to a 150CC size. It will be a while before the B-25 is ready to do engine run up, so figured I would break in the engines on a test stand and try to synchronize them as much as possible before they are installed.
Old 04-04-2019, 04:45 PM
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The T rails come in many different styles now. Saw several versions at the Woodcraft store today.

If you want to do an all metal stand, I can send you a set of drawings. This is one of four I made last year. Handles the little .10 size engines as well as the big Super Tigre brutes and monster Mokis with ease.


Last edited by Jesse Open; 04-04-2019 at 04:53 PM.
Old 04-04-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I must say, a 150 rpm gain on your 50 is noteworthy. How many psi does it take to operate a regulator?

Two to nine psi is about normal. The check valve traps the peaks of the exhaust pulses so the pressure is higher than without the check valve.

Correct from the Cline site:HOW IT WORKS

The fuel tank is pressurized from 2 to 12 P.S.I. by a unique one-way check valve with the pressure from the crankcase of a two-cycle engine or from the exhaust of a four-cycle engine. This forces the fuel to the controller under that P.S.I. The controller is mounted either beside or directly behind the engine.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 04-04-2019 at 04:50 PM.
Old 04-04-2019, 05:00 PM
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Another home brew Saito 12 mm muffler with large diameter outlet . Great sound, rpm improvement and it turned out to have plenty of muffler pressure. Haven't had any problem so far with that!

Old 04-04-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Another home brew Saito 12 mm muffler with large diameter outlet . Great sound, rpm improvement and it turned out to have plenty of muffler pressure. Haven't had any problem so far with that!

Oooooh, I gots ta gits me one of dem dar mufflicaters for the pig! Can I put one on order Gary?

Last edited by Glowgeek; 04-04-2019 at 05:27 PM.
Old 04-04-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Absolutely!
Cost about $2
Here is a stealthy home brew lookalike tailpiece for the big block Saito. Machine from round stock with a longer but bigger bore outlet.







Wow! Those look real nice.
Old 04-04-2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Ok fellas, run a few more tanks of fuel through the pig and the ring is fully seated now. Holds finger pressure against the compression stroke for days and much snappier flipping over the compression stroke than stock. Still only 9350 rpm peak with an apc 14x6. 150 rpm gain from stock.. Seems to run cooler than before. Able to idle at 1825 reliably (down 75 rpm from stock) and transition is snappier than stock. No signs of detonation running an OS F and 15% nitro/17% oil. No prop spitting yet.

As I understand it power gain from a cr increase is greater when the starting cr is low. As you move up in cr any increase in cr beyond that has diminished increase in power output. In addition the fueling system, exhaust and cam profile become more critical to allow the higher cr power gains to be realized.

Having shaved down the deck .018" it's at 10.5:1 cr now which really isn't that high for an alcohol fueled engine. I'm thinking of shaving off another .008" and moving up to 11.46:1. Why not? If it doesn't respond well I can shim the cylinder back up, right?
Glowgeek, why go threw all that again and brake in the ring again, I can't remember, did you use a larger carb ?? if not the 100's Carb will fit the 82's manifold if you use an O-ring with a smaller ID, for that mater if you want to go crazy the 100's manifold ID is .016" larger than the 82's manifold yet the 100's will fit into the 82's intake port, (I just checked it for you), all you will have to do is shorten the 100's manifold vertically and put a small spacer between the Carb and back plate,, remember the 56

Jim
Old 04-04-2019, 07:29 PM
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I like the home brew muffler! I'm not out to squeeze every bit of power but I do plan on adding a 90 degree adapter to my new 80.
Old 04-05-2019, 01:58 AM
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Gary i think dave described all of us very kindly...that must make him a steady teddy (bear) here because he's been round since whenever offering good advice to newby's and experienced saito runners alike eg; long ago i bought my first saito,it was an fa62 and i was hooked.I argued black and blue quite bluntly that you could fly a saito just as well without tank pressure as with it.I knew i was right because it only idled a bit worse and had the occasional big hiccup while doing mild aerobatics,boy was i looking forward to tuning that out,man i was so full of piss and vinegar it takes my breath away just thinkin about it.Nice mufflers.
Old 04-05-2019, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
Glowgeek, why go threw all that again and brake in the ring again, I can't remember, did you use a larger carb ?? if not the 100's Carb will fit the 82's manifold if you use an O-ring with a smaller ID, for that mater if you want to go crazy the 100's manifold ID is .016" larger than the 82's manifold yet the 100's will fit into the 82's intake port, (I just checked it for you), all you will have to do is shorten the 100's manifold vertically and put a small spacer between the Carb and back plate,, remember the 56

Jim
It still has the stock carb Jim. Has anyone seen power gains from going to a larger carb?
Old 04-05-2019, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph Hart
Gary i think dave described all of us very kindly...that must make him a steady teddy (bear) here because he's been round since whenever offering good advice to newby's and experienced saito runners alike eg; long ago i bought my first saito,it was an fa62 and i was hooked.I argued black and blue quite bluntly that you could fly a saito just as well without tank pressure as with it.I knew i was right because it only idled a bit worse and had the occasional big hiccup while doing mild aerobatics,boy was i looking forward to tuning that out,man i was so full of piss and vinegar it takes my breath away just thinkin about it.Nice mufflers.

Not too many who argue against the merits of muffler pressure.

Yep," great advice", and it better be the last word on it

Last edited by Jesse Open; 04-05-2019 at 03:00 AM. Reason: argue against
Old 04-05-2019, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Oooooh, I gots ta gits me one of dem dar mufflicaters for the pig! Can I put one on order Gary?
You can get non-restrictive mufflers HERE at a fraction of the cost of the "Turboheader".

https://www.justengines.co.uk/acatal...Silencers.html

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 04-05-2019 at 03:10 AM.
Old 04-05-2019, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Oooooh, I gots ta gits me one of dem dar mufflicaters for the pig! Can I put one on order Gary?
I missed your edit till just now.

Of course! I made a few and still have a couple. Takes all of about 1/2 hour In the mail tomorrow.

BTW, let me know if you will be needing a bit more SWAK® to install it...

Last edited by Jesse Open; 04-05-2019 at 03:37 AM. Reason: BTW, let me know if you will be needing a bit more SWAK® to install it...
Old 04-05-2019, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
I missed your edit till just now.

Of course! I made a few and still have a couple. Takes all of about 1/2 hour In the mail tomorrow.
Right on Gary!

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